A string of unfulfilling relationships...

[Plucky as guest]

Multiple choice test for Selkie:

1.  My Ex is well behaved because he
a)  Is nice to waiters and other strangers
b)  Supports my self-image in my necessary quest to find a new job
c)  Refrained from aggressive behavior when we worked together
d)  None of the above.

2.  I am a really bad person who does not deserve encouragement because I
a)  Started a relationship with an N and he was a shit
b)  Was horribly mistreated as a child
c)  Allowed the N to sleaze his way back into my life after I clearly told him to get off
d)  I just am.  No reason.

3. I want to be around my XN because
a) Everytime I am in his presence I fall deeper and deeper into a pit of self hatred, confusion, and general "wierd stuff".
b) He plays the victim, he is always "depressed", he is a tortured kind of person.
c) He is angry...he treats people on the street like sh*t.  He treats waiters/waitresses like sh*t.  He has a very abrupt way of talking to people and never considers peoples feelings, he is extremely controlling and overbearing. 
d) No reason at all.

4.  The employer did not call me back because
a)  He knows my secret thoughts and has decided that if I feel too weak about N, he will not hire me.
b)  They decided to wait before making a decision about hiring.
c)  He got too busy and will call back later with an aoplogy.
d)  People don't always do what they say they will, when they say they will, for various reasons.

A possibly too playful
Plucky

[amethyst]

Multiple choice test for Selkie:

1.  My Ex is well behaved because he
a)  Is nice to waiters and other strangers
b)  Supports my self-image in my necessary quest to find a new job
c)  Refrained from aggressive behavior when we worked together
d)  None of the above.

2.  I am a really bad person who does not deserve encouragement because I
a)  Started a relationship with an N and he was a shit
b)  Was horribly mistreated as a child
c)  Allowed the N to sleaze his way back into my life after I clearly told him to get off
d)  I just am.  No reason.

3. I want to be around my XN because
a) Everytime I am in his presence I fall deeper and deeper into a pit of self hatred, confusion, and general "wierd stuff".
b) He plays the victim, he is always "depressed", he is a tortured kind of person.
c) He is angry...he treats people on the street like sh*t.  He treats waiters/waitresses like sh*t.  He has a very abrupt way of talking to people and never considers peoples feelings, he is extremely controlling and overbearing. 
d) No reason at all.

4.  The employer did not call me back because
a)  He knows my secret thoughts and has decided that if I feel too weak about N, he will not hire me.
b)  They decided to wait before making a decision about hiring.
c)  He got too busy and will call back later with an aoplogy.
d)  People don't always do what they say they will, when they say they will, for various reasons.

A possibly too playful
Plucky

Not at all, Plucky. Nothing like a good reality check.

Selkie, we all have cycled many times..relationships with abusive people, addictions, self-defeating behaviors. Some things are just very hard to let go of. It's part of healing. It would be great if healing was a straight line from bottom to top, but it is not like that. I admire you for coming back to the board and writing about what is really going on. By being so honest and willing, you really have won most of the battle.

[Chicken]

D'smom, Vunil, Spyralle, Plucky, Longtire & Amethyst,

Thank you so much for your responses and for hanging around watching this carousel which must be getting incredibly boring by now...  watching the same ol' same ol' going round and round...  yawn!
 
I find it tedious and soul destroying, but as soon as I jump off, I jump back on again against my will.  I need to get to the bottom of that moment when I jump off and what happens to make me jump on again.  At the moment, it feels like a reflex action...  Could someone kidnap me please?

I have tried so many times to respond to the posts yesterday, but as soon as I would type a few things, I would erase them and give up.  I just watch what I type and criticise myself because I know better...  who am I kidding? 

Vunil said: "When you write of him, he doesn't sound remotely appealing!  But something must appeal to you in him. Maybe exploring what that is would be helpful, in your therapy, your codependency meetings, here, wherever.  There is some reason you are involved with someone you find pretty fundamentally yucky, at least consciously.  Do you like the idea of rescuing him? Is it fun to feel superior to him?  Is there a high when he comes back after you break up?  Is fighting secretly fun and sexy?  Is fighting a way for you to yell at past people in your life-- is he a proxy for that?  Is it easier to be with him and feel distant from him than to work on your own issues (i.e., does he keep you psychologically busy)?  Is it easier to be with him than to try to find someone who you don't feel superior to who might genuinely develop intimacy with you? "

I found this the hardest thing to respond to yesterday...

What appeals me to him is that he builds me up.  He tells me I am wonderful, beautiful, talented.  He absolutely adores me (fair enough, you'll probably tell me it's a tactic or a game of chase with him, and it could very well be) He constantly tells me he loves me.  He admires me, puts me on a pedestal. 
The previous relationship I was in, frustrated the living daylights out of me because to get any kind of attention was like getting blood from a turnip, he would give everyone else love except for me.  He would flirt with other girls but never with me...  so this is just a breath of fresh air now. 

I know I have lost my love for my "boyfriend/ex boyfriend to be".  What worries me is that he has kind of morphed into the man  I wanted him to be at the start.  I picked him up on everything I didn't like and over time, he apologised, explained why, and changed his behaviour.  He is the complete opposite to what I thought he was from the start.  But I no longer love him.  I haven't had sex with him for a while as I can't bring myself to have sex with someone I don't love.  I am worried in case I did get a perfect man, I think I would lose my love for him.  I am terrified, but I think I may like the chase.  I think I like unavailable men.  I only like men who deny me love and who drive me crazy, this is why I keep getting these men.  This is what attracts me!  I think that I have lost my love for my boyfriend because he is giving me love and not making me run for it. 

Ok, so I am clearly stuck back in my childhood.  What do I do now?  I seem to have resolved the situation in my present relationship.  I turned him around!   He is no longer abusive, he is loving, caring etc all the time.  When he slips up, I freak out and he realises his ways and changes.  Fair enough, if I stayed in the relationship, and I gave myself to him (which I would never ever do) , maybe he would f*ck me over further on down the road.  But I think what's happening now in the dynamics of my relationship is telling me truck loads.  I think I may have a fear of intimacy.  By choosing these men, I keep intimacy at arms length.  I'm not sure I could ever get past that.  I feel sick to my stomach at the thought of a loving proper normal relationship that doesn't swing high and low. 

Vunil, there are no more highs in the "making up", there used to be this feeling that we have taken a step closer to each other every time we made up and the love I felt was intense...  but now I just feel disgusted with myself when I go back.  Pluueeeeegh!  I think it is easier to be with him rather than face my own issues like what you say, facing my own issues brings me to a depressed place, ie. my childhood...  it was a very lonely, dark world...  visiting that world is really horrible and i kind of feel very isolated and cut off from my life and friends when I visit it, I lose my spark...  It makes me feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

Let me quote something from "games people play" (Berne) firstly a bit of background.  A woman marries a man who is controlling and forbids her to go out dancing.  They went to counselling and finally he loosened the reigns on her...so one night she goes out dancing and realises that she has a fear of the dancefloor...  this is the quote;

"As it turned out, however, contrary to her complaints, her husband was performing a very real service for her by forbidding her to do something she was deeply afraid of, and by preventing her, in fact, from even becoming aware of her fears.  This is one reason her CHILD (inner child) had shrewdly chosen such a husband" Page 46

This really struck a chord with me and made me think about why I am really choosing these men, what service are they providing for me?
They take my mind off me and my issues and my fear of intimacy I think...  I must have a fear of intimacy!  The bloody thought of it creates the same feeling as the thought of jumping out of an aeroplane

Also, I choose men with problems...  Been out with a drug addict, lots of alcoholics, guy who suffered from anxiety attacks, a compulsive liar (while I was with him, I believed every single word) My current boyfriend is half mental...etc, maybe I chose people like this so I don't have to concentrate on my own issues? 

Anyway, I wanted to respond to other people's posts also, as people gave me very interesting things to ponder on...but I feel like my head is going to burst, so I will leave it for another time.

Cheers

Thanks for listening,

x Selkie x

P.S I keep having recurring dreams of me being so angry at my mother!  I am yelling and screaming at her, and cursing and trying so hard to find something to say that will hurt her so bad and really push her buttons but she just ignores me.  I did this occasionally as a child when she hurt me, when I see those reality TV shows now about kids behaving badly, that was me! 

[spyralle]

Hi Selkie,

facing my own issues brings me to a depressed place, ie. my childhood...  it was a very lonely, dark world...  visiting that world is really horrible and i kind of feel very isolated and cut off from my life and friends when I visit it, I lose my spark...  It makes me feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

I can so identify with that Selkie..., but what I am learning in therapy is if I don't choose to look at it I will not make the links I need to make to be able to change things.  If we don't know why we behave the way we do how can we ever stop.  Believe me the answers are back there.  I did training in psychodynamic therapy and then I thought....  No this isn't right.  I had been to therapy myself and learned all the theory but I still wasn't changing...  so I thought it was all rubbish and knocked it on the head.  then, working in the addiction field I started to use a more cognitive approach.  I found that to be quite effective for a while, but not always sustained.  Now I believe that an approaches which embaces all the theories is better.  Some cognitive, some person centred etc.....  lets face it everyone is an individual so there can't be a one size fits all.  Sorry if I'm rambling, what I am trying to say is it's ok to try and deal withit in the here and now but some of our behavious are unconscious and until we know where they come from and bring them into the conscious how can we ever change...

What appeals me to him is that he builds me up.  He tells me I am wonderful, beautiful, talented.  He absolutely adores me

Selkie.  Examine ALL the evidence of this.  Don't blind spot any of it.  Don't just pick on the good stuff that you need.  This man assaulted you remember.  Remember how you felt then.  I'm sorry to say it but it's only that this is what I do.  I hang on to those special moments for dear life.  people like us, we are so needy to hear that sort of stuff and people like him know exactly which buttons to press.  They find out very early what floats our boat and then they know exactly what will bring us aroung. 

When you say that you like unavailable men, do you mean emotionally unavailable.  From my experience I like them unavailable too.  My parents were unavailable you see, and if I remember rightly you had the same...N mum.... detached dad.  I pick these men thinking (not consciously) that this time it will be different and I will be able to have what I craved as a child.  It is a familiar place to me.  i do my best to make them love me cos somewhere inside me I guess that if I can do it this time then I have finally got that love I always needed, but because we always pick the familiar, how can we ever get what we crave so much...

Me too I have always gone for the waifs and strays....  Never solvent.  Never with their own house, underlying problems etc.  Familiar to me....  Whatever would I say to an adult!!!!!

The thing I am beginning to realise is that I need to keep it all conscious....  keep reflecting.  Yet how easy it is to fall back into the same old patterns.  We accept them and make excuses for them because we are so used to giving in....  Go to therapy and use this board as much as you need to.  we are not going to have a quick fix here, but we will be able to see the patterns of behaviour that we keep on falling into as we are gently guided by the caring people here. 

This is a poem that I often give to my addicts...

I walk down the street
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
I fall in
I am lost.....I am hopeless
It isn't my fault
It takes forever to find a way out

I walk down the same street
there is a deep hole in the sidewalk
I pretend I don't see it
I fall in again
I can't believe I'm in the same place
But it isn't my fault
It still takes a long time to get out

I walk down the same street
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
I see it is there
I still fall in.....it's a habit
my eyes are open
I know where I am
It is my fault
I get out immediately

I walk down the same street
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
I walk around it

I walk down another street............

Love Spyralle x

[Chicken]

Thank you for that poem Spyralle, I really like it, printed it out and it's now on my cork board in my room
xx

[Moira]

hi all! Haven't been regulalry posting- started a great new job- and I really miss you guys and the support and learning. I liked the comments on pusuing unavailable men. Unavailable in every way- in fact, the more fucked up they are, the better I like it and feel comfortable. I have always been a great " fixer up-er". Intersting that in discussion recently with my shrink, we talked about this fixing up thing and chosing unavailable men. I now am starting to look at it- and not everyone will agree with me, in fact I may piss people off here...Oh well!!- as a form of control and manipulation on my part. What an intersting way to be superior to those guys. ' I have the answers...I have the skills etc" to fix you up. We as codependents are certainly not " all good, always the total victim( hate that word actually), and have no choice". For me there has always been a certain element of rightousness in my rescuing. For the longest time i could not and would not see this or accept it. I'm starting to wrap my head around it now and in alot of ways it makes sense to me. So f---kin difficult and painful to break these patterns- no matter how much therapy or intellectual awareness i have. Have been doing alot of family work and the roots of this shit as my Nmother died in Feb. and all these suppressed childhood memories are now rearing their ugly heads. Some good ones too which helps keep my perspective that she really wasn't an evil person- she was abused and damaged by her family. Ya do what ya know!  I've finally completely stopped speaking to or even acknowledging my exN when we see each other- happens frequently- at NA meetings. realized even conversation beyond superficiality was another continuation of our sick and twisted dance. Hopefully i've- finally- nailed those worn out battle scarred dancing shoes to the proverbial outhouse wall where they belong! Hope all of you are well, coping, and getting through each day as it comes. Although I'm still defining, losing, then re-establishing my boundaries with the N., I am able to focus on the great supports I have, this forum and all you brave and good people, and new friends I'm making. Life is so full of stress and anxiety right now for me but I feel I can not only make it through this, but continue to enjoy- if not a whole day- many moments and parts of it. This helps keep me sane! Difficult to focus on the " moment" but it's really all we have. Hugs to all1 Moira