Transactional Analysis / Drama Triangle

[CeeMee]

SF I was trying to understand what you wrote and hoped you might clarify.

"Actually I never knew my bioNfather other than in context of abuse"

I'm not sure I understand.  Did you know him in the flesh (your bioNfather)?

"In my inner world my bioNfather (I didn't realize he was my bioNfather) was an okay guy and I loved him"

Does this mean that you painted this okay guy in your mind and loved him as an idea?

"...when I accepted that this internalized man was my bioNfather AND my abuser.  Since then I hate him."

Does this mean that your feelings about this idea of him changed just like that when you associated him with abuse?
 


CeeMee

[CeeMee]

RL

Thanks for all that good information on psychoanalysis.  I think I would like to try it.  Don't think it can hurt but it might even help.  Special thanks for the heads up on how this may impact my family.  My husband will really flip when he finds out I am interested in therapy that might actually cost us.  He fusses about me being on the computer constantly researching and reading.  He asks me "have you found the cure yet!"  He says it in good humor though.

Can you talk more about this:

"This year, I met also met a few people who help me get on the right track by pointing the importance of the spiritual dimension. I finally accepted it as a "gift" and not a curse. And I also learnt not to talk too much about it (especially my mother who is not spiritually inclined at all)."

Thanks again,

CeeMee

[ResilientLady]

You' re welcome, Ceemee.

As far as the "spiritual" stuff, (i dunno how to call it), I will summarize it as follows :

-in last november, I saw a counsellor who had me took the MBTI. I qualified as an ENTP with 80%T and 85% N. She was surprised and told me it was really rare to have such a high intuition at my age, and that I should consider it as a gift and nourish it. I shrugged and thought she was trying to flatter me. I did not even trust the MBTI. Then later, I had the test by myself on the internet, and I read the description. I had no idea what intuition was. All I knew was that I always felt really "close" to my dreams, I have always been a daydreaming person (to the point of sounding like "not being there". I feel sometimes really ill at ease when people notice this). Also I have had sometimes strong feelings about someone/a situation that happened precisley at this time.

-in the same time, I was badly sick (monthly rhinites and fever) and no regular treatment could cure it. I turned to natural food stores where I discovered Bach Flowers. Even though they did not cure me (they are not a medication!), they helped me immensely with headaches/stomach pains/back pains that I have had for years (I am only 30 years old). I was so shocked that all this pain could go away just w/ these Bach Flowers that I finally asked one of the counselor if it was "normal" to have such relief from these Bach Flowers. He told me basically that people are of different types (see MBTI/enneagram things) and are more or less sensitive to emotions/psyhological stuff for example. And obviously I happened to be an extremely sensitive person.

-to make a long story short, I understood that I am someone who is extremely sensitive b/c of this high intuition level. This means an important connection w/ my own unconscious. Like telepathy or premonitory dreams : on my mother's birthday, I dreamt that my two sisters were both pregnant at the same time. I had not talked to them in 2 years and did not know of course this was true. I realized I had this premonitory dream only 5 months laterwhen I read the book where I write my dreams (and dates) .

So, it can be a great (and fun) thing, but I needed to understand WHY (my Thinking part of an ENTP) before I could accept it. I also know it can be improved by reading meditation/zen books/ and practicing tai-chi/exercising for example. So I intuitively know it is somehow related to energy. I don't feel it is better or worse to be like this, I just know it explained a lot of things to me and that I have to take special care of myself b/c obviously I am what they call a highly sensitive person. There has been a post about this (by longtire) I think.

However, I know some people may laugh b/c they have not experienced this and have no idea what I am talking about. My mother (who is an ISFJ, she is very different from me) laughed at me, accused me of having been in a "sect"... The most hilarious thing, she also accused me of "making things happen" (of course, mommy, I am a witch and I have super powers, ha ha ha!!!). On the other hand, my father who has also a strong intuition, told me he happens to experience such things, but as a sender, not as a recepient. I guess I may have gotten some traits from him. He also always told me that I have the mind of an artist. Even though I enjoy arts and paintings a lot, what relieves me the most when I feel bad, is to write poetry.

So, this is what I call a "spiritual" person. Maybe I should have said "highly sensitive", but to my mind this expression is a bit negative and describes someone who is always highly introverted/unassertive. Which, to my mind, does not always describe an HS person. 

Please, let me know if I have answered your question.
Cheers,

-RL

[longtire]

So, it can be a great (and fun) thing, but I needed to understand WHY (my Thinking part of an ENTP) before I could accept it. I also know it can be improved by reading meditation/zen books/ and practicing tai-chi/exercising for example. So I intuitively know it is somehow related to energy. I don't feel it is better or worse to be like this, I just know it explained a lot of things to me and that I have to take special care of myself b/c obviously I am what they call a highly sensitive person. There has been a post about this (by longtire) I think.

Hi RL!  I have mentioned this several times on this board.  It is something that interests me since I am an HSP. After reading some books, it is now one of the things that I value about myself instead of believing it is a "flaw" or a weakness.  I test pretty consistently as INTJ.  Very strong NT, but I am about tied between J & P.

However, I know some people may laugh b/c they have not experienced this and have no idea what I am talking about. My mother (who is an ISFJ, she is very different from me) laughed at me, accused me of having been in a "sect"... The most hilarious thing, she also accused me of "making things happen" (of course, mommy, I am a witch and I have super powers, ha ha ha!!!).

Ha, ha, good one! 

On the other hand, my father who has also a strong intuition, told me he happens to experience such things, but as a sender, not as a recepient. I guess I may have gotten some traits from him. He also always told me that I have the mind of an artist. Even though I enjoy arts and paintings a lot, what relieves me the most when I feel bad, is to write poetry.

Could you elaborate on what hyour father meant by "sender?"   I often have vivid dreams when I am growing emotionally and going through changes, but my dreams are always reflective.  In other words I dream about things I have recently learned, or occasionally about things that my unconscious is about to make my conscious aware of.  I have never had a predictive dream.  Maybe I am a "sender," though I'm not really sure what that is!

So, this is what I call a "spiritual" person. Maybe I should have said "highly sensitive", but to my mind this expression is a bit negative and describes someone who is always highly introverted/unassertive. Which, to my mind, does not always describe an HS person. 

RL, I have also been spiritual all my life, from my earliest memories.  I connect it is some way with being sensitive, but I haven't really thought it through as to how I think it is connected.  Does one "cause" or lead to the other?  I'll have to spend some time reflecting on that one.  I am enjoying this thread.  Glad you're back RL!

[amethyst]

Hi RL and Longtire,

This is a fascinating thread. I know very little about Myers-Briggs, and nothing about enneagrams. I am just starting to learn a little bit about MBTI.. From what I can see so far, the testing and the personality characteristics are uncannily accurate.

I am an INFP. My husband is an ISTP. We both feel that the descriptions of how and why we operate the way we do are right on. We both found the information rather comforting in that some questions we'd always had about ourselves were answered for the first time. I plan to do lots of reading and also recently joined a message board for INFPs, who make up only 1% of the population.

Intuition very much interests me. It's taken me years to learn to trust it. I find that it is seldom wrong.

RL, I am very interested in your Dad's sending. Please tell us more if you can. I am waiting with bated breath.   

[miss piggy]

Hello everyone,

I join the growing group of HSPs and INFPs    very high on the introversion and intuition, almost split on f/t and p/j.  The description of INFP fits me best, though.  I'm so idealistic, it's just silly.  I'm just now coming to terms with the fact that I should not expect other people to even aspire to any ideals.  Some people are just more practical and concrete. That's not good or bad, just different.  I just have to remember that.  Knowing that I am in a very small group of 1% explained to me why I feel like such an outsider/oddball sometimes.

There are lots and lots of websites and books that you can read without having to go to a psychologist.  But I am stumped by the enneagram!  I just cannot figure that out for the life of me.  I've tried several times.  I've had much better luck with astrology, believe it or not.  (BTW, I don't use astrology for predictions, just for another take on personality makeup, just more ancient.  Even Jung gave it credence...don't read the junk in the newspapers.)

OK, talking about astrology is NOT why I feel like an oddball. 

There are also many books about intuition in a spiritual sense.  Connecting to that which one cannot see but still experience.  Other-knowingness.  My spiritual life still includes orthodox religion, however, exploring less orthodox ways of connecting with that otherworldliness renews that wonder for me.  Along with reading about the beginnings of religious movements. 

I tried an exercise in one of Laura Day's books and I was astounded by two results.  One of my questions was "which day of the war was the most terrifying and dangerous for my grandfather?"  The clues I wrote down through observing my immediate environment led me to what was indeed the bloodiest day for his outfit, the day everyone thought they were going to die.  I didn't skew the answers either because I thought for sure it was one of two completely different conflicts.  This battle was one that didn't get discussed much in the books.  It was eerie!

I'm still not very good at tapping into it (and hey, does this delusion make me an N?  )  Magical thinking?  I'm getting all mixed up again.  Well, just wanted to share this with you all. 

I join amethyst & all in wanting to hear more about sending/receiving!  thanks, MP

[CeeMee]

RL
 Wow, what you’ve written is so close to home.  Maybe your intuition caused you to bring up this topic that’s so close to my heavy heart. 

For many years, I considered myself to be “gifted,” The gift enabled me to pick up or sense the emotional energy  of others.  The gift went further though, as I began to sense what others were feeling, I was also able to decipher their thinking and from that I could even predict what they would do next, often with great accuracy.  The gift was also a curse in some respects (as Longtire mentioned in his post).  When I acquired this information, I didn’t always know what to do with it.  The magnitude of the emotion I felt was always beyond normal. Too often I reacted or overreacted without much thought, which led to problems.  The gift gave me incredible inspiration too.  Creative thoughts poured out of me.  Many ideas came to fruition when I was in this gifted state of mind.

Long story short, at the height of my giftedness, the doctor labeled my gift for me, she called it Bi-polar disorder.   I was immediately placed on mood stabilizers and my anti-depressant was adjusted.  Not long after that, my “gift” disappeared along with a good part of who I was. 

Today I am much more balanced, much less sensitive and a great deal more concrete and practical (to use Ms. P language) in my thinking.

I don’t miss the depression, and I am better off without the mania, but I do miss the sparks from the gift that ignited fires in me and shed light in areas where I couldn’t always see well.

I accepted what the doctor’s told me that my gift was actually a mental illness and turned my attention to finding another path towards inspiration and enlightenment.  I tried religion, but I met with little success.  The difficulty I had was opening myself up to believing, to having faith.  Without my gift, this has become an impossibility for me.  My concrete practical mind won’t allow it.  Still I continue to search for a way.  I believe that now more than ever, connection with one’s spiritual realm is absolutely necessary.  I for one am not sure I can survive without it.

Any  thoughts or suggestions?

With a heavy heart,

CeeMee

[amethyst]

RL
 Wow, what you’ve written is so close to home.  Maybe your intuition caused you to bring up this topic that’s so close to my heavy heart. 

For many years, I considered myself to be “gifted,” The gift enabled me to pick up or sense the emotional energy  of others.  The gift went further though, as I began to sense what others were feeling, I was also able to decipher their thinking and from that I could even predict what they would do next, often with great accuracy.  The gift was also a curse in some respects (as Longtire mentioned in his post).  When I acquired this information, I didn’t always know what to do with it.  The magnitude of the emotion I felt was always beyond normal. Too often I reacted or overreacted without much thought, which led to problems.  The gift gave me incredible inspiration too.  Creative thoughts poured out of me.  Many ideas came to fruition when I was in this gifted state of mind.

Long story short, at the height of my giftedness, the doctor labeled my gift for me, she called it Bi-polar disorder.   I was immediately placed on mood stabilizers and my anti-depressant was adjusted.  Not long after that, my “gift” disappeared along with a good part of who I was. 

Today I am much more balanced, much less sensitive and a great deal more concrete and practical (to use Ms. P language) in my thinking.

I don’t miss the depression, and I am better off without the mania, but I do miss the sparks from the gift that ignited fires in me and shed light in areas where I couldn’t always see well.

I accepted what the doctor’s told me that my gift was actually a mental illness and turned my attention to finding another path towards inspiration and enlightenment.  I tried religion, but I met with little success.  The difficulty I had was opening myself up to believing, to having faith.  Without my gift, this has become an impossibility for me.  My concrete practical mind won’t allow it.  Still I continue to search for a way.  I believe that now more than ever, connection with one’s spiritual realm is absolutely necessary.  I for one am not sure I can survive without it.

Any  thoughts or suggestions?

With a heavy heart,

CeeMee

(((Ceemee)))

I remember watching the film,"An Unmarried Woman" with Jill Clayburgh. In the movie, her friend Elaine is bi-polar and finally gets treatment. There is a wonderful scene where the women friends are all together, supporting eachother, laughing and crying. Elaine talks about her illness and says, "I don't miss the lows, but I sure do miss the highs." I am not bi-polar, but I am cyclothymic, and I instantly understood what Elaine meant. I know that when I am "up" that I feel much more in tune with the universe than when I am "down" or an even keel. I'd love to be "up" all the time, but I know it is not in the cards.

I have never gotten much from religious services, except for the music. I feel that the music, especially the Kol Nidre at Yom Kippur, brings me closer to God. The Kol Nidre is a cry from the soul and I cannot hear it without realizing how much we need God in our lives. There is something about that music that dispels the modern illusion that we are in total control of our lives and makes me realize that we are here and gone in God's time, in the blink of an eye. There is also the lovely Tal, which means Dew, sung before Passover, that always grips me. The Jewish liturgical calendar is based on the agricultural cycle of Israel and when I hear Tal, I feel as if I am transported back 5000 years. I played cello in a Catholic Church as part of a chamber group and I also felt close to God at those times.  I highly recommend Bach's St Matthew's Passion.  It doesn't matter if one is a Christian or Jew or whatever, great liturgical music, at least to me, lifts the soul. I also very much love to listen to Jai Uttal and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan..some of their music approaches the liturgical.   

I get my spiritual fix from 12 Step Programs. I have a good friend who has always said,"God speaks to us through other people." I know that I have felt unconditional love and infinite wisdom in those rooms...from very ordinary, struggling people like myself.

((( Miss Piggy)))  I think we INFP's are from another planet.  We are those aliens that want everyone to play nice, share their desk spaces and supplies, not bully anyone in the schoolyard, and hopefully not run with scissors. We arrive here knowing the ideal way to behave and have to struggle with the Bloody reality throughout our lives. I am quickly gathering that most INFPs come from abusive homes, but I am convinced I was born an INFP...lol...not made. I would say we are natural communists in the sense of wanting everyone to have a fair share of the pie. I am also a HSP, but my husband is even more so.

Did you find some of the other kids absolutely brutal when you were growing up? I know I did. I couldn't understand the bullies and the meanies of the world at all, and we had five of them at our bus stop. I also could not understand the shifting alliances of childhood. They terrorized most of us, and especially me, because I was so quiet and so not willing to join them to pick on the other kids, which is how some of the kids got through it. I finally learned to fight back. My dad taught me to hit like a boy, one good thing he did for me. My father absolutely insisted that I learn to fight...I didn't want to. Somewhere in my brain, I thought I could reason with the bullies....which of course never worked.    When I finally clobbered the worst bully so hard that I knocked him down and hurt him, the bullying stopped. After that I used to walk the smaller kids that they picked on home from the bus stop so they wouldn't have to go through the terror.

I had to call one of the fellows who was a terrible bully several months ago to tell him about our 40th high school class reunion. I did lots of self-talk before I picked up the phone because I could feel that childhood fear and avoidance just pinging away.  I managed to be pleasant and he sounded soooo sheepish. I have known this guy since first grade (he was one of the smaller bullies)  and I wondered how he has treated his wife (who was very nice on the phone) and his kids. Probably like crap.

I studied astrology too, MP, and I found it very interesting in terms of personality characteristics, but not for predictions. I have Saggitarius rising with Venus in first house close to the cusp....the sun and Mars in Aquarius opposed by Saturn in Leo,  .... with the moon in Cancer and Jupiter in Scorpio in the 12th house.  Chart could be better, hey? According to literal interpretation, I am supposed to live out my older years in a foreign land; my dear hubby says he can hardly wait to go.  I told him to be careful of what he wishes for...it didn't say which foreign country.

Who is Laura Day? Were you able to verify the information you got? Do explain....I love to find out about this stuff.   
   

[miss piggy]

Hello all,

Hey Amethyst, an Aquarian, eh?  Woo hoo!  I'm a Leo with Scorpio rising.  I knew I didn't act like a Leo (too private and reserved) and that there had to be something else to it.  That's what got me started.  I'll send you a PM on the intuition exercise.  But for everyone else here, the book I read is called Practical Intuition by Laura Day.  She has another book out that's newer, but I liked this one better.

I have a couple of friends who absolutely require good music at religious services.  I don't, but when the music/singing is bad, ouch!  I have to retreat into myself and tune it out (have lots of practice with that!)
I used to try and sing along even when it was bad to be "supportive" but I don't make myself suffer more now by trying to sing along with an out of tune cantor.  Ugh.

Ceemee, there are so many ways to connect with the spiritual.  So many traditions that speak to different people, there's one for you.  We are all bound to have "dark nights of the soul" to really doubt our faith, existence in God, etc.  I think this allows us to recommit to something that has even more meaning for us.  We have to grope around in the darkness for a while. 

I was absolutely thunderstruck to read about near-death experiences.  These stories are so other worldly (maybe I am not skeptic enough) but there seems to be verification from outside sources and also, why would people put themselves in a position to be scoffed at?  I also identify more with early church movements because of the disenfranchisement of the people on the outskirts of society that made up the early church.  So reading about that helps me connect.  Just between you, me, and the Internet, I think many traditional churches are our present day Pharisees, who put form over substance.  I'm being harsh, not all churchgoers are hypocrites, many many are fine caring people.  But there is a danger of becoming too rigid and entrenched in tradition.  Wanting to be right over loving.  JMO. 

As for other kids, bullies, etc.  Yes!  Just mouthy and rude and critical savages.  Finally I am realizing that people expect to be treated this way, they don't mind because they are less sensitive, and that's that.  It's weird.  I had to take my little d to swim lessons where this really spoiled princessy young mother would hog the entire locker room (very small area) and shower for her little princess-in-the-making.  Very selfish.  After about four days of this, and deciding I didn't care because I didn't know any of the other people there and wasn't going to be returning, I just kicked this young woman's purse across the room to get to our locker.  This person stopped hogging the room and treated me with a civil amount of respect thereafter.  It was weird to me because I was so used to being beaten down if I dared to do anything like that growing up at home!!!  This was a lesson in telling people how you expect to be treated.  Of course, I'd like a nicer more assertive less angry way, but whatever.  I need to remember to speak up however it works when things seem oppressive to me.

[ResilientLady]

Hi longtire, thanks for the welcome! Good to see another NT!!

I was so afraid to check the board, in case I would be called a witch...or an N!! 

Could you elaborate on what hyour father meant by "sender?"   I often have vivid dreams when I am growing emotionally and going through changes, but my dreams are always reflective.  In other words I dream about things I have recently learned, or occasionally about things that my unconscious is about to make my conscious aware of.  I have never had a predictive dream.  Maybe I am a "sender," though I'm not really sure what that is!

OK. Even though they may share some characteristics (ie. they are related to the unconscious), I would separate telepathy/radiesthesia from dreams b/c IMO in the first case you are conscious and subconscious is used, and in the 2nd case you are more in the unconscious than the subconscious. 

About telepathy:
What he meant by "sender" is simple : whatever the type of communication (telephone, internet,telepathy.. ), you have a "sender" and a recipient. Here he would unconsciously "send" a message to me as an emotion and I would "recieve" it as a feeling of a strong emotion.
Here is what happened one evening in last december :
-I first felt extremely sad (w/o any reason), then I had obessessing thoughts (i.e. whatever I would do they would stay in my mind). They were very strong feelings of anger/rage about my older sister who had been not been willing to tell my father about her disease (hepatite C), sort of family secret.
-Then I had a clear image of a cat very wet and very afraid (as if he had stayed a long time outside in the rain), waiting at the door and finally the door opened. At the time I just thought I had a strong thought about a dead cat I had and loved in my childhood.
-The day after, I called my mum, and she said "you know I finally told your father about Mary's disease". Then she said the cat had the most horrible fight she ever had, and was totally wet by the rain before she could open the door for her. I said "I know, I know", without being surprised or aware that I should not have known. Of course she thought I was making this up. When I asked her "how dad react to the news?", she answered "he said nothing and went to his room".
I think my father had an overwhelming feeling that I could feel it at a distance. He told me later that he did not think about me at this time. But he said he was not surprised I could have "felt" his emotion and the cat's ( please don't laugh..). Here my father (and the cat?) would be the "senders" and I would be the "recipient".

My father told me another story (according to him, confirming he was a sender  ) : when he was about my age, he was sent to the army (which he absolutely abhores) and after he defended a soldier, they put him in the army "jail" for one month. He said his mother told him afterwards that she had "seen" him crying and being desperate and being behind a wall at this time,but she did not know he was sent to jail. I remember when I could hear her voice I always felt "goose bumps" on my head and my neck, a strange and very noce feeling. Now that I have parcticed a bit of tai chi, I know it was about feeling some of her energy (chi). So my father was (again) the "sender" and his mother was the "recipient".
I had heard other stories from Poland (where the parents of my father lived until the 1930s) related to radiesthesia/Radionics, but I will save them for another time...

Another story is about someone I had met a few months ago who seems to be an ENTP or INFP. The three times he called in 3 months were right after the roughest crisis I had been through. Here I seem to be the "sender" and he would be the "recipient". I did not pick up the phone as I was feeling too vulnerable to accept any help (seen as intrusion).
Other "strange" things have happened to me during thie time period (May thru July), but I have not understood them  enough to be willing to talk about them now (I am still uncomfortable w/ this  ).

About dreams
This feels more scary to me, maybe b/c it is more deeply in the unconscious (and more uncontrollable?). I was deeply shocked and cried a lot when I found out that this could have been a premonitory dream. I have had telepathy experiences / coincidental things happening to me in the past, but I never thought I could have such dreams. I felt like it was a curse or something. Especially when I learnt that my older sister had been trying to have a baby for the past 5 years, and also that in the dream, one of the baby was suffering physically and psychologically (which I never said to anybody).
I am not superstitious, but to tell you the truth, I have stopped writing my dreams since then (advice of my mother) and I try to not remember them.
I have not even dared to open again the book where I used to write my dreams. I know it sounds childish and/or ridiculous but I just can't.
 

RL, I have also been spiritual all my life, from my earliest memories.  I connect it is some way with being sensitive, but I haven't really thought it through as to how I think it is connected.  Does one "cause" or lead to the other?  I'll have to spend some time reflecting on that one.  I am enoying this thread.  Glad you're back RL!

To me, being spriritual or sensitive is strongly related in the sense that it means having a high creativity / intuition level. To me it means being interested in anything that is not on the conscious level : art, writings, dreams, telepathy, psychoanalysis, energy, radiesthesia, etc...
However, it's b/c I realize that I have a strong T to "protect" me that I now dare to buy a few books about radiesthesia, natural energy/healing but I am still very very careful.
What I heard is that lots of people try to get into that to obtain things like power, love, money, whatever... To me it is ridiculous, it's not about "special powers" (like dear mommy thinks.. ) but it's about an open mind and being extremely receptive. In fact I see this more in terms of being a recipient than being a sender, b/c IMO I think the sender is not aware of sending but the recipient can become aware of receiving (by being more conscious of his feelings).
A woman who was working in a medical magnetotherapy store told me to stay as far as possible from esoterism, and stay in the path of medical/healing. She confirmed that it is some kind of "gift" (I still have trouble w/ this word, sounds N to me ), that ususally appears when in your 30s and that grows stronger when you grow older.
She then said that "gifted people" will feel better only if they nurture this gift, so that energy can be released. 
To me it was a really important statement. This is why I have decided lately to postpone my coming back to the workplace as an IT consultant and keep working from home as a translator, to be able to get as much free time as possible to focus on this topic. I see this choice more as a necessity than as a simple "hobby" as I need to understand more about this and deal with it. I do not want to get sick again or go through the same crisis as last spring.

Sorry for the long post.. .. but this is a topic that I enjoy a lot. I hope I answered some of your questions. I am waiting for your comments..
(right now I am trying to connect energy concepts w/ psychoanalysis, ie energy/body therapy. I am currently reading "Bioenergy" by Alexander Lowen and it is really really great... )

Cheers,
-RL

[ResilientLady]

Hi Amethyst,

I am glad you enjoy this thread... as an INFP...
I can relate very much to what you said when you are talking about spirituality. In fact, I found out is that in times of big crises, arts and spirituality "save" me way more than my T...    (going to museums enjoying paintings brought me intense relief..)
It's like my T function is paralyzed and is replaced by a Feeling function, and in the same time I become more introvert..., ie I seem to turn from an ENTP into an INFP, like when I was in my teens. 
These INFP "tendencies" reallly helped me understand why I haave always been so strongly attracted by Judaism (and Jewish/Yiddish Music). I remember how my stays in Jerusalem used to provide me w/ these "spiritual fixes"...

I think we INFP's are from another planet.We are those aliens that want everyone to play nice [..] We arrive here knowing the ideal way to behave and have to struggle with the Bloody reality throughout our lives

I so much agree... I think that in my early twenties, I found this way of being so dangerous for me that my F turned into a T and my I into an E..  .. is that possible?

According to literal interpretation, I am supposed to live out my older years in a foreign land; my dear hubby says he can hardly wait to go.     I told him to be careful of what he wishes for...it didn't say which foreign country.

Maybe it's France???
-RL

[ResilientLady]

Hi Ceemee,
I was about to post a long message but apparently  I lost the connection...and the message..
Anyway. This one will be shorter...

RL
Wow, what you’ve written is so close to home.  Maybe your intuition caused you to bring up this topic that’s so close to my heavy heart. 

Thank you very much, (((Ceemee)))...this si a deep compliment..

For many years, I considered myself to be “gifted,” The gift enabled me to pick up or sense the emotional energy  of others.  The gift went further though, as I began to sense what others were feeling, I was also able to decipher their thinking and from that I could even predict what they would do next, often with great accuracy.  The gift was also a curse in some respects (as Longtire mentioned in his post).  When I acquired this information, I didn’t always know what to do with it.  The magnitude of the emotion I felt was always beyond normal. Too often I reacted or overreacted without much thought, which led to problems.  The gift gave me incredible inspiration too.  Creative thoughts poured out of me.  Many ideas came to fruition when I was in this gifted state of mind.

This is a beautiful description of intuition that only real INFPs (not like me!!) are able to write...Beautiful.

I was immediately placed on mood stabilizers and my anti-depressant was adjusted.  Not long after that, my “gift” disappeared along with a good part of who I was. 

I was told to take mood stabilizers, which I did for 6 months. It was a nightmare, I had become a vegetable. I had lost all my iNtuition and my Thinking. T came back fully after 4 months and N only after about 9 months. So when you stop taking it, I am sure your "you" will come back.

I accepted what the doctor’s told me that my gift was actually a mental illness and turned my attention to finding another path towards inspiration and enlightenment.

I would not dare to talk in the place of a doctor, but do you feel it is justified to still take the medication? I took mood stabilizers only during some time in my psychoanalysis b/c the physical pain was too important, and I am against any medication w/o therapy. I think the best would be to talk about this to an analyst.
As you said, you have the gift to be really close to your unconscious, so you are an ideal candidate for an analysis. Or at least a therapy.
Please take this into consideration, so many people go to one therapy after another b/c they have no idea of what the unconscious may be..

Any  thoughts or suggestions?

I think I wrote a couple of things on previous posts.
Here are a few things :
-arts and beauty : classicle music, museums, art books, exhibitions, poetry,...
-travels : in real or in imagination by looking at inspiring pictures of far away/spiritual countries such as India, Birmania, Cambodge...and dreaming you are there..
-regulating your body energy : by jogging, walking, swimming...
-letting go by reading/training in : yoga, tai-chi. My favorite book for meditating is called "secrets of meditation" by Thomas Cleary. It is a small anthology of zen / buddhists texts. I read it over, over and over...It's really great to "let it go" and let your intuition come back...
I also learnt to feel the Chi by simply reading (and practice a lot) a book of Tai Chi self practice. Same with yoga. Breathing is one of the main thing in all meditation practices. I think "mum" (from the Board) knows a lot more than me about this...
Last but not least, a book called Bioenergy by Alexander Lowen explains a little bit the "whys" of the practices of Tai Chi / any energy martial art and how it can be used in a cure. But it may be more appealing to NTs than to NFs? 

I hope this will help you in your quest...

-RL

[CeeMee]

Hi RL

Thanks again for all the good info.  I’m definitely going to look into getting analysis.  I hope that I can find a good doctor.  I will refer back to the pointers you gave me in a prior post.

In answer to your question whether I think I still need my meds, I would have to say, yes.  In fact, I am terrified to come off of them.  I work full time and my meds are what enable me to get up and go to work every day.  Without them I’d probably be on disability or have to retire early.

I do look forward to the day when I have the time and freedom to do all the things you’ve listed in your post.  Hopefully, I’ll get to explore some of those options soon.  RL you seem to have tried and studied many different things.  How many years have you been exploring "gifts" and spirituality?




Thanks for those suggestions Amethyst.    The music you describe sounds wonderful. Others have also suggested the 12 Step Program to me.  I’m familiar with the format as a former Alanon member as a kid.  12 Step was a big part of my own mother’s recovery. BTW, Bipolar highs are FANTASTIC but they have the habit of wreaking havoc on everyone around you, so I had to give them up.

Miss P.  I agree with you about religions today being big on form and short on substance.  And yet so many flock to them like lemmings. 

Question:  I’m thinking that my psychological journey takes precedence over my spiritual journey.  I am not sure I can find my way until my mind is completely at peace.  Do I have the cart before the horse here?. 


CeeMee

[ResilientLady]

Hi Ceemee,

Thanks again for all the good info.  I’m definitely going to look into getting analysis.  I hope that I can find a good doctor.  I will refer back to the pointers you gave me in a prior post

Great...I am glad you made the decision.

  How many years have you been exploring "gifts" and spirituality?

Well, as I said I turn to it during difficult times, it's like a switch. I started learning yoga by myself at 14 to be able to cope w/ N family. 
I have always felt a need to write, to read, dream...escape!!  I cannot really explain, it is like an automatic reaction. 
I turned to arts in my teens, then to judaism...now to zen/meditation/tai chi.
I have to say that I have always been around people (friends or bf) who were more or less into that (as a hobby).
Last but not least, what convinced me about the Chi was that my analyst practiced Tai Chi daily.
When one day I could not get off the couch (emotional shock), he put his fingers around my wrists and I could strongly feel the energy flow (Chi) coming to my body.
When I understood what it was, that strongly motivated me to get into it.
But I keep in mind to "use" these things as a means and not as an end. I don't plan to become a professional analyst/artist...(though I had been tempted when I was younger.. )
To me it is more a philosophy or a lifestyle. 
Despite times of crisis, I feel I get more and more "spiritual"/sensitive overall in the long run. As I understand more and more my characteristics, I start to accept it, adapt my lifestyle, trying not to disturb too much my balance. I feel I have no other choice anymay...
-RL

[amethyst]

Hi RL,

I read your posts with absolute fascination. I believe that both you and your father are psychically sensitive. I have been somewhat afraid to try to conciously use that sixth sense or psychic energy; perhaps I feel that I may discover something harmful or may be harmed by doing that. Sometimes it just happens on its own, but it's not something I have tried to cultivate. It is different than than my normal intuition, which I am trying to cultivate. I totally agree with your point about using psi for gain, such as winning the lotto...it would never occur to me to even try that...it "feels" wrong..

I am going to have to do some more thinking and reading about energy....or energies...and intuition...and focus.. A few years ago, one of my friends studied Reiki and did some practice healings with me. In the process, he told me that I had very strong natural Reiki, especially in my hands. He taught me how to place my hands over people without touching them...they can actually feel warmth and comfort emanate from them like a toaster.

I have been aware that I had a healing touch since my late teens. My summer jobs between college were in nursing homes where I worked as an aide. I loved the old people and the feeling was mutual. I was often told that I had a comforting and very caring touch and that I was soothing to be around. The patients would literally light up when I came into their rooms to spend time with them, but I have to say I received so much from those elderly people, much more than I gave them. I learned so much about the end of life while I was in the beginning of mine. I learned a great deal about dignity, wisdom, spirituality and got to know some very healthy families. It was all good. I still love old people.

Later on I used to work as a medical assistant (that healing thing again) in a family practice and the patients told me that that I had a very gentle, comforting touch, even if I was doing something relatively painful such as giving an injection or drawing blood. Once again, I got so much more from the people I cared for than I ever expected. 

The doctors I worked for (a great bunch, who were so definitely not Ns) were puzzled because I instinctively seemed to know what was really wrong with the patients and would have everything ready for the doctors before they even asked. I was constantly asked how I " knew" to have everything ready for them, including the labs. Sometimes I would have things set up that the docs hadn't even thought of, but after a little consideration, they would go ahead with the tests, which turned out to be the right thing to do. It got to the point that they would ask me if there was anything more I thought they should be doing. They finally called me into a meeting to ask me if there was any way I could explain how I just seemed to "know" what were the underlying problems and how I "knew" what to do. I was flabbergasted. I did not feel that I was doing anything special and I told them that. One of the docs said,"If you could bottle whatever it is that you do for medical and nursing schools, that would be fantastic. You have incredible natural clinical skills and diagnostic abilities. The reason we've brought you in is that we have never seen anything like it." I told them that I did not feel that I had any unusual talents, but I did have a sincere desire to help people. I told them that I was one of those people that couldn't learn or remember anything unless I knew the "whys" of the matter, what goes on beneath the surface. Therefore, I did a great deal of medical reading, much more than would be required for a clinical medical assistant, so that I could understand the etiology of diseases as well as the diagnostic "paths" one has to take to solve a patient's problems. The response was,"There is more to it than that than knowledge and training, although that helps. You have no idea how much extra work, backtracking and trouble you have saved us. You constantly see stuff that we miss. You may have saved some lives because of these abilities. It's uncanny and we were just trying to figure out how you do it. We would love to be able to tap into this ourselves." I said the bottom line was that when I was with a patient for the time it took to get their complaints, history and vital signs, that patient had my undivided attention on every level, and that was the only explanation I could come up with.

Looking back at those times in my life, I believe that I was using all of my intuition with each individual...that somehow I was able to get my ego out of the way and was thus able to perceive the truth. I guess I was letting their energy flow my way without any obstruction or any preconceptions. Today, I design and make jewelry. I half jokingly have said that if I let the beads and components tell me what to do and get my ego out of the way, the design is going much better than if I try to run the project. It's the same thing in my relationships. I have to have an open heart and not be trying to control how my friends and loved ones think and feel.

Interestingly, I have ADHD, which definitely is an energy issue. I should probably try Tai Chi. Sitting meditations do not work for me. I would like to learn how to channel my energy better than I do.