Transactional Analysis / Drama Triangle

[CeeMee]

Hi All,

Okay, so I went and read everything I could find on personality typing and did some research on enneagrams.  Yes, MP I was confused about Enneagrams too.  I wasn't sure about the findings of the enneagram typology test.  The results labeled me a "Rescuer," but I am not sure about that.  On the other hand, the Myers-Briggs typology was an EASY call. 

I am ENFP.  Without a doubt, or so I thougt.  When I explained to my husband, he disagreed completely with the E.  He says that I am definitely an I.  When I asked him why, he said because I stay holed up in my room on the internet all the time. 

I'm thinking that I probably switch back and forth.  At work, I am very friendly and outgoing.  When introduced to new people or upon entering a social gathering, I have no problem talking with folks.  I love meeting new people.  The problem is that it usually doesn't go further than that.  I am terrible about maintaining relationships.  Given all my ideosyncracies, illnesses and personality type, not to mention N traits, relationships are not easy for me, particularly with women.  (Dealing with men is a whole other story which I won't even get into).  So, I am not really sure if I am and E or an I.

You've really got me interested in Tai Chi now.  I may also have to sign up for a class.  It sounds like something I'd really enjoy.  You know it is nice that you have all these interests and have the ability to pursue them.  Where I live, it is a sterile, cultureless, vacuum.  I want desperately to move.  Ideally to Europe, but I'd settle for a town that had some people like the women on this board.  I can't get this type of conversation out here in the boonys.

CeeMee

[miss piggy]

Hello Ceemee,

I believe the answer to the I or E question lies in whether or not you get energy from being amongst people, or if you withdraw to recharge your batteries.  If you need people to recharge, you're an E.  If you need to withdraw, you're an I.  I'm friendly and outgoing in groups as well.  But I absolutely need my own time and space to recover.  It doesn't necessary mean one is shy, just energized differently.

As for your question about psychological vs. spiritual journey, I guess I'll beg the question by suggesting that perhaps they overlap?  Someone mentioned to me that getting one's heart and head lined up (I called him my spiritual chiropractor) was key to good emotional and mental health.  Sometimes knowing you can call on your higher power (fill in your own acknowledgement of whatever you consider greater than yourself at work in the universe here) and not feel like you have to figure everything out on your own. 

I came across some of Rabbi Larry Kushner's thoughts on truth or the meaning of life and I really liked the way he put it:

The meaning of life is

...that it has something to do with God
...that it's all God
...that it's all connected
...and you're gonna die
...there's something else going on
...that's pretty much it. (he says)

Thanks for indulging me.  It's really cool to be hanging out with people who want to discuss these things. 

RL and Amethyst: really cool stuff.  it is encouraging to hear your stories about healing energy and sixth sense happenings.

Take care, MP

[voxanne]

Hi CeeMee,

Thanks for the recommendations. I read the articles and am now in the process of seeing myself outside those behaviors. So many of the actions and beliefs describe me. It was helpful to have them organized in a way that made sense. l'm a 'visual' thinker and the Drama Triangle article gave me a way to 'see' my unhealthy ways. )

Voxanne

[October]

The meaning of life is

...that it has something to do with God
...that it's all God
...that it's all connected
...and you're gonna die
...there's something else going on
...that's pretty much it. (he says)

Great thoughts, Miss P. 

FWIW, my own thoughts about the meaning of life would include (off the top of my head):

Being alone is a fallacy
We each have to find a way to overcome this fallacy
If we do not overcome it, we live alone and die alone
If we do overcome it, we live forever
Heaven is open to everyone except those who refuse to see it
We find the door to heaven next door to our own front door
We find the face of God in everyone we meet
God is most visible in our eyes when we laugh
God is closer to us than breathing
Death is a beautiful angel, who will take us home
Life is a dream, which we have to make come true
God is a great darkness (St John of the Cross.)
The meaning of life is connection
Connection happens through giving
Giving is worth most when you have nothing left to give

[miss piggy]

Hello October,

These are beautiful thoughts.  I'll be thinking about them for a while.     Thank you for sharing them.

MP

[CeeMee]

Those words from the rabbi are inspiring   Miss Piggy and thanks for clarifying the E and I.  With that explanation, I am definitely an E.  I charge around people.  If I get overstimulated, I might retreat. 

October, you are a poet.  That was absolutely beautiful.

Voxanne, glad the Drama Triangle was useful to you.  I've tried to start catching myself or my family playing the game.  It is very applicable.

CeeMee

[October]

Thanks <blushing>

And today:

Pain is a gift which tells you that you are still alive
When you look into the face of an angel, you see tears in his eyes.

[CeeMee]

October,

Have you done the MyersBriggs to determine your personality type?  I'd be curious. 

CeeMee

[October]

October,

Have you done the MyersBriggs to determine your personality type?  I'd be curious. 

CeeMee

INFP.  (As far as I can remember.)

And Libra.  And a Rat.     

[ResilientLady]

RL, Your post was absolutely fascinating!  My SO and I (he an INFP, I an INTP) are both highly intuitive... he is very much a sender and I recieve!  As far as telepathy goes, do you know anything of dreamwalking? 

Thx for the compliment, Ariel. Dreamwalking never happened to me (as far as I know) and I hope will never happen b/c I live on the 6th and last floor of an old builiding and only half of the roof has been repaired..  Just kidding.. I think it is great that your SO could "split" into two forms. I wonder if he has specif feelings/dreams, etc..Pls let me know. Even though I have INFP traits in times of crisis (when in regression ie. my "child" in Berne's terminology), I do not buy into "everything is super-natural". In other words, I think on a more rational level, (even though, according to MBTI/Jung terms the definition of intuition is "sthg that is not reason/logic") these things can be partially explained through :
1) the "energy levels" around the body and the appropriate cures, according to the energy levels
2) different energy frequencies and types, ie. "vibrations" of :
-living beings : bioenergy,
-the earth : geobiology
-the cosmos : cosmogony
This can be scientifically described in radiesthesia. You can look for this topic, in specific libraries or web sites. I was lucky enough to find in Paris the main bookstore ("radiesthesia house"). The books (titles) are in French so that would not help. I translated directly the above concepts from French to English w/o checking out the translation, I hope that makes sense anyway.
IMHO the main issue is to be able to quickly make the difference b/w :
-intuition (perception of sthg from a collective unconscious that would get into my individual unconscious) and
-projection/transferance ("regular" things happening in my internal individual unconscious, having nothing to do w/ a collective unconscious).
What helps  is: 1) psychoanalysis which made me more aware/understanding of the things happening inside my unconscious (eg being able to explain some dreams) and
2) zen/meditation/letting go which (I believe???) helps "open" my individual unconscious to more collective unonscious through energies.
Do you think this makes sense?
Does your SO have any spiritual practice and/or psychoanalysis/meditation?

Also, we feel a good part of the reason we were "sent" to one another was to help each other heal from the abuse in our past histories.

Here is what I think about spiritual things:
Strange things may happen. At times. More often to some people than to others. Which may make other people afraid (what is it?) and/or jealous (why don't I experience it? and why should you experience it?) and/or full of fascination and/or awe. But they are rarely respectful. This happened at all times in history, depending on how the culture at the time valued intuition. People w/ high intuition were often considered saints or witches/sorcers, depending on the mood... and political goals... So it is understandable that these people have to be all the more careful, but thinking they may be "sent" or have a "mission" does not feel ok for me.
For me, being spiritual is a means and not an end. This is why I enjoy Zen so much -and gave up on yoga.

-RL

[ResilientLady]

I usually do not like to post to “anyone” or to “those who feel concerned” (unless starting a topic) b/c IMHO it shows a lack of respect to potential readers.
However I don't mind (for once) using the same communication tools or "games rules" (according to Berne's terminology) as those used by some posters. 
So I do not have a problem in posting here “to anyone who feels concerned”...

1)I knew I would take a risk by creating such a discussion about gift/spirituality/INFPs... Today I feel what I wrote has not been taken seriously. But :
-I feel overwhelmed... (sorry)
-I do not feel like playing the victim either....(sorry)
-I do not feel like spending the energy to get into unproductive games. Sorry for those expecting that... 
To those who feel concerned, I would suggest reading Berne's Games people play. It says it all... [/u]

2)  About Narcissism and spirituality:
I have been around some spiritual people, some may happen to be dangerous if they use these things to increase their narcisstic supply. Which I condemn fiercely.
This is why I keep saying "it's great to try new things but PLEASE BE CAREFUL" (of Narcissists lurking in these fields.. or of developing Narcissist traits, which one is worst   ). 
For example, in my early twenties I lost 2 friends who went to sects. More recently my best girlfriend (whom I knew for over 10 yeras) drifted away b/c she went more into her traditional catholicim (and was criticzing my ideas about judaism) and a very good friend of mine drifted away as he went more into orthodox judaism...

3) Also about learning spirituality and Narcissism :
In general, spiritual things may be powerful but very dangerous if not used/learnt correctly. Someone in a post was asking about Reiki. It is not a safe thing for a newbie b/c reiki practice requires an advanced level as it is based on the chakras, powerful energy concentration locations. To learn these things require a lot of time and patience and... HUMILITY. And (safe books) reading!!! I gave the name of Thomas Cleary, not to show off but b/c it is a very safe western author to start with. "Minding Mind" (the original title in English, you can find it in a library) is a good book in that respect.

4) I highly value this topic. I feel it touches one of the most intimate part of in my individuation process. This is why I may sound a bit serious (sorry for that).   

5) Strange things may happen. More often to some people than to others. Which may make other people afraid (what is it?) and/or jealous (why don't I experience it? and why should you experience it?) and/or full of fascination and/or awe. But they are rarely respectful. This happened at all times in history, depending on how the culture at the time valued intuition. People w/ high intuition were often considered saints or witches/sorcerers, depending on the mood... and political goals...
and political games on a Board...

6) For those wondering if they are INFPs...(or not, or part-time   ...or maybe one day in they feel like it...or never in the world.. or in their next life if their karma is good enough   )
Here is a description of some INFP traits :
"Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others [...]
INFPs do not like conflict, and go to great lengths to avoid it. If they must face it, they will always approach it from the perspective of their feelings. In conflict situations, INFPs place little importance on who is right and who is wrong. They focus on the way that the conflict makes them feel, and indeed don't really care whether or not they're right. They don't want to feel badly. This trait sometimes makes them appear irrational and illogical in conflict situations. "
Not a complete description, but says enough...

7) For those wondering what MBTI is :
1. It is the main HR tool used by (mostly American) Fortune 100 companies to increase their efficiency and competitive advantage, regarding HR allocation and optimization. For those who do not know how these companies work, please note these companies do not use astrology in that field, whereas Western or Asian..
2. It is based on Karl Gustav Jung’s archetypes and functions. Jungian school is THE most famous psychoanalysis school in the United States (not in France, they like better Freud..)
3. Pls type MBTI in Google if you are a curious (and adventurous) mind...that would rather check out things than buy into any/every?thing...   

-RL

[CeeMee]

RL wrote:  "Today I feel what I wrote has not been taken seriously. "

I wouldn't worry about those who are not interested or don't give credence to this topic, there are just as many who are at this very juncture in their journey.  I for one am VERY interested in what you have written.  I have had some recent experiences that have got me to the point of questioning my reality.  Your posts are very helpful to me in sorting things out.  I will post you in a private message RL because I am afraid that one of the nearly one thousand members and possibly thousands more viewers may recognize my story and I'll blow my anonymity.  Perhaps I'm being paranoid but as others have said, the anonymity is what makes this board such a safe place to be.

Speaking for myself, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience in an area that is probably off limits or even feared by many and I really appreciate your cautions to those who explore these areas.

I'm treading carefully.  Thanks for the guidance.  I think it has something very valuable to offer.

CeeMee

[October]

Today I feel what I wrote has not been taken seriously.

Who by?  All I can see is lots of people discussing these ideas seriously. 

Where is this feeling coming from?

[ResilientLady]

October
(I -at least- have the decency of naming the person I am posting to...).
As said earlier, I am not gonna play games. I know what transferance is.
I will not post on this thread anymore and won't read your answer -if any on this thread either.
I will be away from this board for a while.
Sorry.
Good luck w/ your next therapist.
-RL

[Sallying Forth]

I am ENFP.  Without a doubt, or so I thougt.  When I explained to my husband, he disagreed completely with the E.  He says that I am definitely an I.  When I asked him why, he said because I stay holed up in my room on the internet all the time. 

I'm thinking that I probably switch back and forth.  At work, I am very friendly and outgoing.  When introduced to new people or upon entering a social gathering, I have no problem talking with folks.  I love meeting new people.  The problem is that it usually doesn't go further than that.  I am terrible about maintaining relationships.  Given all my ideosyncracies, illnesses and personality type, not to mention N traits, relationships are not easy for me, particularly with women.

CeeMee

My t says you can be both an E and an I. At one time I thought I was both but the more I healed the more I saw I was only one.

However the deciding point would be: Do you recharge your batteries by spending time alone? Or do you recharge your batteries by spending time with people?

I'm a strong INFP and recharge by doing things alone. I'm very deep, insightful and inward focused. However after a time alone I like to meet people. I easily strike up conversations and that is also one of my problems too. Being so deep I tend to share deep. Eek! I am working on that with people and not sharing anything more than superficial information (how's the weather, etc.). Then I go back home and get away from people's input and find me in the things I do alone.