Is it possible for N's to reform?

[Xenia]

When I was young, my Nmum was truly nightmarish: violent, cruel, controlling.  She told me stuff like

she wished she'd never given birth to me
I'd ruined her life
Ruined her figure
Ruined her chances of having a career
she couldn't wait to get rid of me (- before she sent me to boarding school)
I disgusted her (- after I told her I thought I was having a nervous breakdown)
then that if I didn't go to university I "might as well commit suicide"
and all the rest that comes from having a barely sane Narcissist for a mother...

There were a couple of particularly difficult patches that stand out, one when we were very young and she was unable to control her anger and acted it out in violence by hitting us, breaking stuff over us, throwing things at us, squishing our bikes under the wheels of her car, making me drink salt-saturated water etc.  It was terrifying.

The other was when I was an adolescent, and along with the usual traumas of that age began to find memories of violence surfacing that had previously disappeared from my memory.  I had to come home from school because I coudn't stop crying and my mum took me to have my hair done and told me she thought I'd feel better if I had a nose job. Possibly, the sight of me burgeoning into a young woman aroused feelings of competitiveness in her, because around this time she began to hound me mercilessly and with bare hostility.  Although the physical violence had stopped, the emotional violence was full-on.  I challenged her about how violent she had been to us as little kids, saying, "you must of hated us", to which she replied "Not ALL the time".  I asked how how she could be so cruel, she said, "you wouldn't OBEY me"!

Well fast-forward a few decades and Nmother has herself a career as a psychotherapist.  I really thought she'd matured and developed during the psychotherapy she did and she certainly seemed better [interestingly the big breakthrough in her attitude towards me was when I bought my first house] though of course, her disrespectful and domineering regard for me had never gone away. 

However, what basically seems to have happened is that the mother of old has returned and is spewing hostility towards me, having made a 'friendly' twosome with my brother and is now telling me stuff like i am no longer part of the family (she is 63).  I have not encountered this sense of dislike since i was a vulnerable adolescent and I do not understand where it is coming from, but it has left me feeling troubled.  I have been under the misapprehension for years that my mother had changed - still extremely narcissistic - but better. I now feel like I've revisited a very nasty place in my past and am absolutely shocked at her.  It seems as though she has just regressed by 25 years back into the monster she used to be.

I just thought even N's could mature but now I'm not sure.  Can they ever change or are they for ever chained into being emotional terrorists?

[Sela]

Hi Xenia:

I don't know the answer to your question but I just want to say the I am so sorry that you have endured such a horrendous mother and have suffered so much from her insanity.   It is really, really scarey to think of your mother working out there as a psychotherapist.  And here I thought there was only one psycho-psychotherapist on earth (the one I ran into)!!  I can just imagine some of the things she might say to vunerable clients.  yuck!!!

....the mother of old has returned and is spewing hostility towards me, having made a 'friendly' twosome with my brother and is now telling me stuff like i am no longer part of the family (she is 63)....

I really wonder if she ever left or if she just disguised herself for awhile for whatever supply was needed.  I wasn't there, so I can't say but my guess is the real monster-mother was just hiding behind a fake self during that period....for her own purposes.

 

I have not encountered this sense of dislike since i was a vulnerable adolescent and I do not understand where it is coming from, but it has left me feeling troubled. 

You know what?  I bet you were thinking for some time that she actually cared about you, at least some, and now....the truth of the matter is becoming clear.  I'm so sorry Xenia.  Mothers are supposed to love their children and she clearly demonstrated otherwise.  Maybe her insanity is some explanation but that doesn't take away the hurt of the behaviour or the emotional starvation her terrorist actions caused.

She "disgusted" me after I read about the way she treated you and I'm so sorry for your pain and suffering.

((((((((((((((((((Xenia)))))))))))))))))

Sela 

[seasons]

I don't beleive than can. My sisters have been N's for over 20 years. I have seen them play different roles when they have gotten cornered or are trying to suck someone into their lives.

I'm sorry your going through this ..... hugs to you and strength to get through the hell.

[Moira]

Hi and welcome Xenia! My answer, my opinion and professional experience( 20 yrs. psychiatry)- all you guys who've read this umpteen times, feel free to zone out!- is NO. Ns do not have a conscience and you can never grow one. No capacity for empathy or truth. I believe no ability to change their behavoiur- although they'll swear they will and are excellent actors able to short term mimic appropriate responses. The only times I've read or worked with Ns who APPEARED( operative word) to change were merely learning new acting skills to mimic emotions- situation specific and appropriate ones for those of us with empathy and a conscience. The honeymoon period, if there is one, is guaranteed to be short and limited to Ns continuing to abuse you because you have something they want, see you as an object, and thrive on fights, estrangement- even negative attention works for them, keeps you hooked in, and validates their ego etc.. I'm so sorry to read about your mother. I too had very similar " mothering". Won't gointo all specifics but it involved trying to abort me, using alcohol and drugs in large amounts, non compliance with bedrest- increased risk of hemorrhage. Always told me she never wanted me, treated me like shit and different than everyone else, told me I was stupid and handicapped( not true) and would have to spend the rest of my life at home living with them!!! Keep posting and like, myself, when I joined I discovered a never ending wealth of information, personal experiences( validates yours as often we feel totally crazy due to Ns amazing ability to twist words. Their worst weapon). Great support, survival and healing strategies and excellent literature etc recommended. Hugs Moira

[mudpuppy]

Hi xenia,

Can they ever change.....

Sure they can. They get worse and worse and worse. They also sometimes get slicker at hiding it.

Do they get better? When I see it happen I'll let you know. I wouldn't go holding my breath or anything though.

mud

[Stormchild]

I think they can hide the N-ness, if they want something from someone badly enough, but not for very long. It leaks out around the edges sooner or later.

[vunil]

Well, I don't see how anyone who would say such horrible things to her daughter could be considered reformed unless she went through MAJOR changes and did a LOT of apologizing.  Most of us would be almost suicidal with grief to think we had said such awful things to our own flesh and blood.  I don't even know if N caused such awful behavior-- she sounds kind of borderline to me, but regardless of whether change is possible, it's pretty clear she didn't change.  I mean, I think I have changed a lot-- I had both N and borderline traits as a youth (learned from my family) and I am rid of them now, I think, with a LOT of vigilance and therapy and a lot of guilt over my previous behavior that I work through by trying really hard to be better now.  If you don't see that trying in her, really tough trying, then I don't think she has changed.

I do think we all have ways of behaving under stress that fall under the basic PD types, and that everyone falls back into those ways of behaving sometimes.  For some, it is more N behavior.  For that kind of thing, self-knowledge and working to deal with stress in different ways is definitely possible.  But not, I agree, for someone who is in the throes of a real personality disorder-- MAYBE change is possible, but if you saw it, it would look dramatic-- the person would be tackling it head-on in a very painful and concentrated way and would have almost a breakdown along the way without the safety of all of the defense mechanisms that had to be abandoned.  I have never seen an full-fledged N person do this but I do think it is possible.  It just isn't common and won't look anything like the N's in our life who say they have "changed" just to get their supply back. 

[Plucky]

Hi Xenia,
I'm sorry you had such a monster for a mother.  Why do these people have to exist?

As far as the question, whether Ns change - why the question?  In your case, I think you can safely conclude that she has not changed and is not going in that direction.    If you are asking whether you should stick around for the abuse in case she sees the light someday way down the road....I think you know what I am about to say to that.

Is the idea of cutting off contact out of the question?  Can you minimise contact?  Your brother is going down with the ship, can you jump off and save yourself?
Plucky

[Xenia]

Thank you for your responses - they have really touched me and I'm sorry its taken me a while to reply.  I don't find it that easy to get private time with the computer.

Its kind of scary knowing that the narcissistic monster has been reactivated. I'm keeping quiet for the time being.  She hasn't been contacting me and I haven't contacted her. Its hard not to be bothered by the hostility she is harbouring for me though.  Especially when my brother can say and do nothing wrong, cannot be challenged, must be provided with everything he needs.  Intellectually, I know that he is the loser, because he has to give up his personality and fall under her ownership and control. 

She cannot be disagreed with, because to her a disagreement is not just that, it is an attack on her and must be vigorously defended.  Any - yes I mean any - opinion that differs from hers, is an excuse for her to become angry at my stupidity - and defiance - for not seeing things her way.  Ultimately, there is not much point in having opionins around her because its not worth the cost to oneself to have them. Therefore I just spend as little time as possible around her. 

As for her being a psychotherapist, yes, its pretty frightening.  She has a rented consulting room as well as one at home.  Whenever I have been at her house while she has a session there, all I can hear is her voice!

I live over a hundred miles from her, so don't need to have too much contact, thank goodness.  I hate going there because although she has a big house, any spare rooms are full of junk, so there is nowhere for me to sleep and I have to camp out in the living room.  She would never go to the trouble to make sure there was a bedroom for me to sleep in, that would be far too much to ask. (If someone she wants to impress comes to stay however she will go to the expense of having a room redecorated especially.)

Its just best to have little contact so I don't have to bite my tongue the whole time and can have some semblance of equilibrium in my life without her wierd world view and twisted thinking and desire to turn me into an insignificant voiceless insect to content with.