Dangerous Words - It isn't (or wasn't) really that bad.

[Gail]

All right.  Painful memory, and not even as a child.  And yes, it really was pretty bad.  I can finally admit that.

I had a miscarriage early in my marriage to now XH.  It was pretty awful because the doctor, for what reason I don't know, had me go through it at home instead of coming in to the hospital.  It was a long drawn out and extremely painful process, and I was quite devastated.  That day, not too long after it finally was over, mother came over.  Rather than xh and mother grieving with me, they spent almost the entire time she was there going over some architectural drawings on a project they were involved with together.

I've started to ask myself what a normal person would have done in different situations to try and judge how bad those situations really were.  If I had been XH, I would have taken my wife to the hospital, or at least called the doctor to let him know things weren't going that well.  If I had been a mother, I would have focused on the emotional pain my daughter was going through.

Ouch, this really hurts!

Gail

[Hopalong]

Gail, you SO deserve loving arms around you, tender comforting, and most of all EMPATHY after that physical and emotional ordeal...not to mention all through the grieving time after, as long as it lasts.

I am sorry they were so empty they had nothing to offer you. Architectural plans? God. Pleasant that they can build buildings and probably a good space for them to relate. Because in their human structures, somebody left out the furnaces (hearts). That was horrendous emotional neglect, but they're clueless.

Who cares about "normal" but you are coming ALIVE because you are admitting how much their indifference and insensitivity hurt, and asking, were there alternative things they could have done? No, not those people...Ns have no alternatives. But in the big wide world, there are TONS of people capable of ordinary and heartwarming kindness. (Your friends, your chosen non-N family...) Sounds like you're doing the kind of work that will lead you to find kindness, and to recoil when you notice its absence.

I am so sorry for your loss.
Hopalong

[Gail]

Thank you for your kind words, Hopalong.  This happened many, many years ago, but I never shared how XH and mom behaved with anyone until now.  It surprised me how the grief felt so fresh when I remembered this experience--not so much for the loss of the pregnancy because I did mourn that effectively (if by myself), but because of the non-reaction of XH and my mother.  I know if I tried to talk to either one about it, they probably wouldn't even remember the details. 

And God bless my mother, in the past decade she has tried so hard to overcome her N tendencies and has shown her love and support to me in many ways.  When she's under a lot of stress, the N-ness tends to pop out, but she's so much more in tune to others' feelings now than she used to be.  She suffered so much when my father died, and then married a man who caused her a great deal of pain, and I think those experiences opened her up to others' suffering.   I count it as one of God's miracles that we have such a good relationship now. 

I'm sure getting a lot of gardening done these days.  I face a memory, then go out and attack the yard work that needs to be done.  It seems to help dissipate those bad feelings that I'm experiencing.

Gail

[Hopalong]

That is miraculous about your Mom, Gail!
You do have a gardener's green soul...life-giving, forgiving, renewing.

Good for you.
Hopalong

[Brigid]

Hi Gail,
Reading your story, brought back the memories of my own first miscarriage (had 2) 21 years ago and the pain that caused emotionally.  I had been trying to get pregnant for 2 years and was so happy when it finally happened.  I carried the baby for 3 months before they determined that the fetus was not viable and I was going to have to have a DNC/abortion, as it was not miscarrying on its own.  I remember wishing that my mother could come and be with me (she lived about 6 hours away), but she didn't feel she could leave my grandmother for a couple of days, even though she was in a nursing home and totally cared for.  My xh brought me to the hospital, but did not see any reason to stay with me and said he'd be back to get me later in the day.  I remember laying on the gurney crying with only my ob/gyn to hold my hand before they started the procedure.  After both miscarriages, my ex acted like it was no big deal and we should be able to go out and have fun with friends the next day.  I guess I understand that better now.

Brigid

[Plucky]

Hi Gail,
I am glad your mother is behaving better.  But how does that bode for working through all the stuff she did that you have not had a chance to resolve your feelings about yet?
Does it at all inhibit you from really feeling how awful she was then?  What about fiorgiving her?

You remind me of my story.  My XH arrived home in the middle of the night and raped me, provoking a miscarriage the next day.   I was rolling on the floor in pain and he refused to call the emergency services, saying that he might know someone working there and that would be embarrassing!  He finally drove me to a specialty hospital that did not even have obstetrics and did not even tell them I was pregnant!   

When my mother came to visit me in hospital, her entire conversation consisted of trying to determine what I had done to cause the miscarriage!  I began to sob and asked her to get out.  For that, she did not speak to me for months.  Again.
Plucky

[Marta]

Gail, that sounds heart wrenching. And yet, at that moment you had to swallow your own pain and behave as though nothing had happened. How scarring that experience must have been. Hugs to you.

Brigid and Plucky, it must have been terrible to lose your own child adn yet have no one around you who would shed tears along with you at your loss.

[Hopalong]

Brigid,
I often think of your voice as maternal. In the loving, wise, almost shamanic way.
And Plucky, your name is an understatement of the highest order. When a sane and ourageous voice comes from out of such suffering...

Respect.
Hopalong

[bliz]

Some of the replies, to "it was not that bad", reminded me of how easy it is to not deal with our issues by saying this.  For everyone who thought their upbringing or relationship, "wasnt that bad", I hope it is not an excuse.  I am talking to myself here also.  Just becaues my childhood or relationship wasnt a horrific daily nightmare, does not mean it is not important to delve into the unpleasent experiences, feel the greif, anger, etc and heal.

[Gail]

I am glad your mother is behaving better. But how does that bode for working through all the stuff she did that you have not had a chance to resolve your feelings about yet?
Does it at all inhibit you from really feeling how awful she was then? What about fiorgiving her?

Thanks, Plucky, for this comment.  It is exactly what I've been struggling with--how to reconcile what happened to me as a kid with the pretty good relationship we have now.  And, yes, I have forgiven her. 

Last night it hit me, though, how crazy, and sometimes downright mean, her behavior really was.  There were aspects of her personality that were pathological, and that's hard to face.  I'm just taking it memory by memory.  I think maybe I should keep a log of the memories that come up--maybe put them in some kind of chronological order so that it's not just a jumble in my mind.. 

[Healing&Hopeful]

I am glad your mother is behaving better. But how does that bode for working through all the stuff she did that you have not had a chance to resolve your feelings about yet?
Does it at all inhibit you from really feeling how awful she was then? What about fiorgiving her?

Thanks, Plucky, for this comment.  It is exactly what I've been struggling with--how to reconcile what happened to me as a kid with the pretty good relationship we have now.  And, yes, I have forgiven her. 

Last night it hit me, though, how crazy, and sometimes downright mean, her behavior really was.  There were aspects of her personality that were pathological, and that's hard to face.  I'm just taking it memory by memory.  I think maybe I should keep a log of the memories that come up--maybe put them in some kind of chronological order so that it's not just a jumble in my mind.. 

I can relate to jumbled memories and not always knowing where they fit.  I feel it would be a good idea for you to keep a journal as 1, it could make your memories seem real and 2, it's a way of releasing them from the inside if you know what I mean. (((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) xx

[write]

I think loads of us have struggled with this over the years.
If we're not being beaten and physically injured- is it still domestic violence?
If our parents belittled and laughed at our every achievement- is it still neglect?
If the culture around us says that men are the 'head of household' - are we malcontents and subversives to question it?

I think the answer to these questions is- how does it make us feel?
If we feel abused/ neglected/ marginalised....then we are.

We may have been trained from early on to ignore our feelings, but the road to our recovery is reinstating them and saying EMPHATICALLY: if it doesn't feel right for me, it's not right. Regardless of our culture/ religion/ self-doubts....

We have to learn to trust ourselves to only allow people in our lives who will enhance what we want our lives to be, and to be prepared to ditch anyone who makes us feel pain or less than we truly are.

[Plucky]

Last night it hit me, though, how crazy, and sometimes downright mean, her behavior really was.  There were aspects of her personality that were pathological, and that's hard to face. 

I bet.
Have you ever spoken with her about any of those things?  Are you planning to?
Plucky

[Brigid]

I have recently been participating in a training program to become a volunteer at a shelter for women and children who are victims of domestic violence.  One of the more important things I have learned is that physical abuse does not have nearly as much long-term affect on the victim as the mental abuse.  I never considered myself a victim of domestic violence because there was never a bruise or broken bone.  I now understand that the emotional scars left by the neglect and down right detachment by the men in my life and my mother has severly impacted me and my ability to engage healthy relationships.  Through therapy I have been able to come to terms with this and find a path to healing from it.  I now can have such empathy for others who have been damaged by psychological abuse and maybe be of some help as they begin their journey to healing. 

Becoming connected to this shelter and the women and children who live there has been a very eye-opening and life changing experience for me.  I would recommend it to any of you who are looking for a volunteer opportunity. 

Brigid

[Gail]

Wow, Write, very good advice.  I realized, not too long ago, that I have a very large capacity to tolerate pain--probably from having so much physical and emotional pain as a child.  I always was almost perversely proud of my ability to handle pain, maybe because any expression of pain was frowned upon, so tolerating it became a virtue.  Now, I can see that I have to guard against deliberately allowing myself to be in situations that cause pain.  There's enough suffering in life we don't have control over.  Why subject myself to it when I do have a choice?  

Plucky, you asked if I planned on speaking to my mom about the way she treated me when I was a child.  My first thought was that it wouldn't accomplish anything constructive unless she was very receptive--maybe bringing something up herself.  It would really cause her a lot of suffering if she knew how I really felt about my childhood, and I don't want to do that.   We don't live close to each other anymore, but I try to visit her once or twice a year, and we talk on the phone often.  She did once apologize to me for the way she treated me when I was younger.  It was kind of a generic apology, but meant a lot to me.

Since we have a decent relationship now, I'm trying to separate dealing with the memories of my childhood from the relationship we have in the present.  Does that make any sense?  

Gail