My Story....

[Marta]

Hi H&H,

Cool name! 

I introduced myself to supermalc, but he trashes artists and thinks he is always right, so we may not have much in common. 

Marta

[Healing&Hopeful]

It's funny.... when you realise what narcisstic is, you can sometimes see it so clearly Marta!

I don't think you'd have much in common with him hon. 

[jordanspeeps]

One thing I would really like to ask you all though is this, do you ever feel that what you remember isn’t real?  That there’s a possibility that you just made it up or something, that it’s just in your head?

Hi, H&H, welcome to the board.  I have the same question, as I feel I have similar, "false memories" or imagined memories.  And whenever people recall things from our joint past, their versions always seem to be more detailed and completely different from my own.  I am always suprised as people's recall for things during childhood.  Until I began to study nursing, I had no idea that one could actually recall so well, things that happened at say 12 or 15.  My memories are either not real (according to others) or completely different from my family's (mom, sister, brothers).  I've tried not to obsess about it, but now that you've mentioned it, what do you think is up with that?!

Take care
Tiffany

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi Tiffany

I can relate... a few years ago I was talking with a friend from school.  She was with me the day I left Mum's to move to bio dad's.  I knew me and Mum had had a blazing row, but I couldn't remember what over.  She told me that it was because I sneaked my jeans out to wear (I was 17!).  She saw the full extent of what my Mum was like that day.  Mum's anger was unreal.  My memories are patchy at best.

I never reminise with my parents.  From what I know she's never got angry again since I left, so no surprise she didn't want me back.  However my dad and brother do exactly what she wants.  She oversteps my brothers boundaries too.  Just recently me and my brother have been organising my mum and stepdad's wedding anniversary.  We were emailing each other to sort out arrangements and he sent me an e-mail... a few minutes later I'd got another one where he apologised for sending the first but Mum had just walked into his room.  I feel that as he's a 23 year old man, surely she should knock before she walks in?  His room is like a little boys and there's no pictures of girls around, he's still got a single bed!  He gets up, goes to work and comes home.  I don't think he has any friends and he never goes out.  Just sits in front on the TV in his slippers the same as my stepdad.

But then on the other hand my brother enables her too.  Again coming back to their wedding anniversary, we booked a table and organised family to meet.  All this was a surprise to them, they knew they were going out but thought they were going somewhere different and it was just them, us and my brother.  I'd bought table confetti, balloons and a banner which I sent to my brother to take to the restaurant so they could dress the table up.  He conveniently "forgot" and said they could be put up at home, so I said why don't you ring the restaurant in the morning to see if you can still take them?  After all, that is what I bought them for.  The only reason I couldn't take them myself was because I live an hour and a half drive away.  He didn't bother and told Mum who said that it was much better to put them up at home as she'd get to see them for longer.  I said she would have been able to take them with her after the meal anyway!  Straight away though she sticks up for my brother and then wanders why he's got no confidence!  Another example is the meal.... we had our meal and had sorted out champagne for everyone.  I said that we should have a little toast for the champagne and to thank everyone for coming, and that really my brother should do it because he booked the place and it was his idea.  Plus I do feel it's more of a man thing to give a speech.  Well after 5 mins of talking about what to say, he then was adamant that he wasn't going to stand up and say it.  Straight away Mum's there at me, "Well, you're the eldest". sticking up for him.  I was so sick of it, I just got up and said a few words.  Blooming pathetic, but you've got to laugh haven't you?

Sorry all, I appear to have rambled and gone totally off track!!!  Anyway back to the original question.... I don't know why.  Because I had to spend so much time in my room, I spent an awful lot of time reading.  It was my escapism and as a teenager I used to read about 3 books a week, sometimes more.  My bio dad bought me a stereo, which I thought was brilliant at the time.  However looking back I think he bought me it more to get up Mum's nose than as a present for me.  I could only listen to it with headphones on so I used to sit there with my headphones and reading.  She still complained about the noise from the headphones but there wasn't much I could do about that.  Maybe I spent so much time reading and in another place, that I don't remember what was real?

Your thoughts?

H&H xx

[Sallying Forth]

Writing so much is not necessarily NPD.

For you it is finally having a voice!

Thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm sorry you went through such horrible stuff. Your mother was (is?) N. She reminds me of my Nmother's description of her mother. The timing for meals. The specific clothes. The forced eating. The specific food.


The meal time situation you shared was triggering to me for some reason. I don't remember this ever happening to me but I've had flashes of something like this. So I wonder, did it ever happen?


My brothers' version of our childhood are completely different from mine that is except one brother who knows I was abused by my Nparents and Nbrother. He doesn't know about the abuse outside my home and my bioNfather. It is kind of like we grew up in two different families. Used to make me angry and upset but now I have accepted that our memories of our family will ALWAYS conflict. I don't have any contact with my family now. No one writes or calls or emails me which is completely find with me.

[jordanspeeps]

Hi H&H

I find myself relating to you on a couple of different levels.  We have the same brother. and this whole lack of recall during major points in your life is bugging me, too!  I was also an escapist.  Very bookish as a kid at home or at the library, but quite spunky at school.  I loved school.  It was where I felt I learned everything I needed to know about life, my teachers were my mothers, the principals were the disciplinarians, I even had relationships with the lunch ladies and janitors. 

H & H maybe the toughest of our memories have been repressed in order to create some kind of livable place for us in the world.  Maybe it's a defense mechanism that keeps us from going nutty with the worst of things.  That dreamlike state our memories live in may feel like deja vu or a strong notion or a lucid dream.  The brain is AMAZING.  Sometimes I think it may be a gift that some of us just forget or possibly block certain things as not to lose it completely.  Just a thought.

Your mom sounds Nish with the lack of boundaries, and the behind the scenes controlling of your brother, that's left him spineless and castrated, (I'm really speaking of my own brother, here). Supporting him in his weakness and putting the pressure on you to cover for him, that's seems classic to me.  I've been reading some psychology stuff lately that brings forth the unresolved Oedipus complex, (where boys between ages 3 and 6 mete out the frustration of not being able to have their mother's sexually) as reasons why men grow up to behave this way, and I'm learning that N's are kind of incestuous the way they "love" their kids.  Just another thougt.

Tiffany
 

[Healing&Hopeful]

Thank you Sallyingforth and Tiffany.

Sallyforth... I just really hope it didn't happen to you, more than you can possibly imagine. (((((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))))

My Mum definitely has quite serious N tendencies, however I don't think she is full blown NDP whereas my bio dad is.  I say this because Mum has apologised in the past (although it didn't seem very heartfelt but it was an apology all the same), not about the anger or hitting because I've never raised that with her, but about supporting my brother to go to college, whereas I had to go out and work.  I didn't have the option to go to college.  Also she does think of other people, like the elderly neighbours next to them and she also worries alot, like when we told them we're going to Thailand for our honeymoon.

Tiffany... I too was often at the library, at least once a week.  I remember when she felt she had to tell me about the birds and the bees, she couldn't do it so she got a book from the library under my name and gave me it to read.  I suppose that is more than some parents though.  Are you in any therapy Tiffany?  I'm not and I do agree with you that the brain is amazing and that we block certain things, but I have learnt the hard way too.  After I left home, I looked for love and more than that, a safeness in the wrong places.  I made some silly decisions and I hurt quite a few people, however I did learn from my errors otherwise I wouldn't be with who I'm with now and living the life I live now which all in all, is pretty good.  The love and safeness I was craving I now have with my husband and our home.  I do feel like I have a home instead of just somewhere to live, if that makes any sense.  Little things that I think most people take for granted but I really appreciate.

I did smile about the spineless and castrated.... I've never heard of the Oedipus complex so am going to read up on it over the next couple of days.

Thanks for all your thoughts and replies

Take care

H&H xx

[jordanspeeps]

Hey Double H,

Actually, I'm terrified of going to therapy although, I probably should be in therapy.  I'm afraid that either I'll become too dependent on my therapist and create yet another unhealthy relationship or that I will uncover/discover things about my past and present that will annihilate my psyche.  I've chosen however to educate myself on all things NPD, narcissism, toxic relationships, controlling personalities, developmental psychology etc.  Currently I'm reading, People of the Lie by Peck and  Think Like a Shrink by Rosen, he talks about the Oedipus complex and N parent/child relationships.  There are tons of other good references on this board.  Reading has always calmed me and allowed me to gain that all too important thing called PERSPECTIVE.  Reading saved my health, maybe my life. 

Other things we have in common:  supportive hubby and loving in-laws, and that special "birds and bees" talk being deferred to reading material.  I'll never forget it, it was a paper booklet called "A Doctor Talks to 9-12 year olds about sex."  I kept it until it was torn, ratty, and disintergrating, (not sure why...)

  I do feel like I have a home instead of just somewhere to live, if that makes any sense.  Little things that I think most people take for granted but I really appreciate.

I understand this totally, HH, and I wish all the best for you,

Tiffany

[Sallying Forth]

Thank you Sallyingforth and Tiffany.

Sallyforth... I just really hope it didn't happen to you, more than you can possibly imagine. (((((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))))

My Mum definitely has quite serious N tendencies, however I don't think she is full blown NDP whereas my bio dad is.  I say this because Mum has apologised in the past (although it didn't seem very heartfelt but it was an apology all the same), not about the anger or hitting because I've never raised that with her, but about supporting my brother to go to college, whereas I had to go out and work.

H&H xx

H&H,
Worst stuff happened besides the weird food stuff which I already do remember and the systematic, daily abuse by my Nparents and Nbrother. I was sexually, physically, mentally and spiritually abused and tortured by my bioNfather. Let's just say, he's sadistic, that's putting it mildly.

I do remember weird clothes ideas my Nmother had. She wanted me to dress in provocative clothes. I kept asking if the mini skirts she picked out were too short. She insisited they weren't. I was always dressed in the lastest style, keeping up with the Joneses, because my Nmother also has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. I laughed when I read the Psychoanalytical Description of OCPD, Anal Retentive. S*#@! That's my mother! She'd be measuring my skirts and dresses to make sure they were within the acceptable range. I remember kneeling down on a chair and she get out her tape measure. If had my way I would have worn something about an inch to two inches longer. This is both NPD and OCPD together. For me, it was crazy making, because on the other hand she didn't want me to be more beautiful, more intelligent, etc. than her. Yet here she is dressing me up a certain way so that I would stand out. I never did stand out except for my prom dance. I remember her being so proud of the long velvet skirt she made me for my prom dance. It had a provocative twist to it. It buttoned down to my mid thigh and then was open with a huge slit down to the floor on both sides. This was 1971 and I was dressed like a hooker! The top was even more revealing. Got to wonder what she was thinking. Warped, very warped.

My Nmother also apologized to me. It was definitely not genuine and I knew it. She said, "I did the best I could." She didn't even say I'm sorry. She's never apologized for the systematic, daily emotional and mental abuse she, my father and brother all perpetrated on me. Why? It didn't happen. Only one other brother knows it happened. Everyone else is doesn't believe that little bit of teasing teasing hurt me. Minimalization: N's are experts at that.

My Nmother did the best that she chose to do. Period.

[Healing&Hopeful]

Sally hon.... to me your post shows what an incredible person you are, a real tough cookie.  At least now you can choose your own clothes and wear exactly what you want.  With me, trousers were an absolute no no.... girls don't wear trousers, so I was dressed in pretty much the same clothes as her.  I remember she made me this hot pink knee length skirt... god it was hideous even in the 80's.  Always with a blouse.... I looked like a teenager dressed like a 40 year old.  Nice!  Well done for getting away from such an unhealthy environment and I truly hope you have the joy and love in your life that you deserve.

Tiffany... as I've only just started delving into NPD, personality disorders and such like, I'm not very well read on the subjects yet, but like you I like to read to educate myself.  I've read The Road Less Travelled and because I've only read up on NPD in the last couple of weeks, have read a fair amount of stuff on the internet.  I'm amazed how much we have in common.  I've been debating whether to go into therapy, but I think that as my life is pretty much ok, that the past is probably better off being left where it is.

[Marta]

I've been debating whether to go into therapy, but I think that as my life is pretty much ok, that the past is probably better off being left where it is.

H&H, I think going solo may just be your way. I am especially impressed that what brings you to this board is not desperation or a trauma, like most of us, but you come here at a time which is bringing stability and health to your life. To me, this is a sign that you are able to face your demons even without having to go through roller coasters, and the fact that you have found a partner who's good and sane is another sign that you are on the right track. Keep goin'! 

[Healing&Hopeful]

Marta... it's interesting what you say.  What brings me to this board is a desperation, but not for me.  Part of me would love to have children and I'm so scared that I will treat them the way I was treated, even though I know it was wrong.  This is my desperation, to learn so I can change and if we are able to have children, then they will benefit.  My husband knows that I long to adopt too.

Through a lot of my life I've been very lucky... I've got friends who thought I was worth sticking with, and once I'd left home their parents used to make me up food parcels when I couldn't afford food (it's quite ironic really that it was beans on toast which nbiodad told me to leave, yet I lived on that about 3 times a week!), allowed me into their family circle where I could see what it's supposed to be like, I had a boss who mothered me in a way when I needed it, helped me.  Men is a different matter... I did meet a lot of guys who were no good for me, one being an alcoholic who ran me up hundreds of pounds worth of sex line calls, then preceded to tell me that someone had tapped into the line (there were only us and one other neighbour!) and that the world did not revolve around me.  And still I stayed for another 6 months.  Lovely guy-Not!  Or the other thing was I didn't stick around long enough as I didn't want to get attached.  I am the worlds biggest optimist and always try to look for the good in everyone, but this is probably a reaction to my n-biodad's negativity which I don't feel is a bad thing.

[Marta]

H&H,

We make life defining changes in two ways. Either because we are brought to our knees and can't take another step from where we are at, it is this gut wrenching do or die kind of pain, or because we wish to move away from darkness towards sunshine. Usually many of us start with the former, and end up at some stage in our recovery with the latter. From what I see you are in the latter category, that is what I meant. How sweet about your friends!

[Hopalong]

Dear H & H,
You inspire me very much. I really do think we can "feel" who a person is by reading what they write. I just want to say I think you would make a wonderful, wonderful mother if that's what you want to do. You are warm, gentle, very alert to what would be hurtful behavior, and have an enormous capacity to love. You have a powerful attitude of gratitude, and that gets turned on children. (They would feel without any doubt at all how much you love them!) I know from the incredibly kind post you wrote to me when I mentioned the love-hungry child inside me that you would treat your own children exactly the same way.

I don't think you can fake this kindness. Just keep on moving that warm light around until you also feel its compassionate warmth aimed directly into yourself. Then I think you're ready for motherhood, and I think you could be ready tomorrow.

Hopalong

[Healing&Hopeful]

Thank you so much!!!!