Author Topic: Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help  (Read 4685 times)

KateW

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« on: December 18, 2003, 12:36:00 PM »
My mom is coming this weekend to visit me and my husband for Christmas per my offer to her because she was angry we were spending Xmas with my dad (New to this Think my Mom's a Narcissist thread). It's already causing problems between me and me husband. He wants me to tell her to not say anything bad about my dad when she comes but for some reason I am afraid to. I am always afraid of her reaction.... it is so stupid. She's staying for 2 nights and I'm already dreading it and then I feel guilty for it.  She's been all quiet lately ever since our last blowout like I treated her so badly by standing up to her. Why do I feel bad? Why do I feel like I'm responsible for her feelings? Do N's not realize how they are? Whenever I confront her she acts all "hurt" like she can't understand why anyone would be mean to her. She goes through friends like water... so she has to be an N right? But then I feel bad for her because she doesn't even know why people don't want to be around her? I really feel like she has no clue about her behavior. Then I feel like I need to help her because she doesn't even know how she is.  When I called her to see if she had decided she was coming, I get a curt "I already told you I was coming!" like I was playing games or something. Are N's typically paranoid? She didn't give me a definite answer just that she hoped I could fit her in my "busy social calendar".  Sometimes I think it would be better to just cut off all ties with her and my N sister but then I worry about hurting her. Because she gets so sad when we aren't all together for the holidays. She was crying because we "don't have a family anymore" (because according to her because my dad left and moved all the way to Australia 18 years ago) and it's all his fault, etc etc.

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2003, 01:32:52 PM »
Yes, Kate, it appears you are in the throes of N-ism.  Your mother reminds me very much of mine. But what spoke to me more what how I identified with YOUR reaction.  I can see myself in you and have walked in your shoes of guilt many times.

I cannot honestly tell you how to "stop" feeling guilty about setting boundaries with your mother - because I have yet to complete the process.  But I do have some advice for you that truly has helped me.

When we are just learning about narcissism in a parent and how it has affected us, you begin to see your feelings come about in two parts for each encounter with that N parent:

1) Discomfort/Anger that we are being hurt or affected by behavior of the narcissist, or discomfort/anger that we are compromising our own beliefs or feelings to make them happy

2) Guilt that we are feeling that discomfort or anger, because everything we have been taught by our N parent and society is to honor thy mother and father, no matter what the circumstances

Here's the good news: when you begin to realize these as two separate feelings, you can take action to eliminate #1! You begin to set boundaries. When you set boundaries, you stop the actions that are causing the emotions in #1. And I don't know about you, but having only one bad feeling is better than two ANY day.

Boundary setting is very difficult, but becomes easier with time and practice. When you set a boundary with your mother, you will feel initially liberated and you will begin to see the positive side: you are preventing yourself from being hurt.

The guilt, #2,  is still there for me.  However, I am confident that this has improved over time, and will lessen with time and experience.  And the nature of the guilt has changed.  It used to be I felt guilty about being angry with her because I felt like a bad person.  Now, the guilt is because I feel sorry for her and don't want to hurt her (pity).  Perhaps you can't see the difference, but I feel it.  And now, when it comes - it is more recognizable, "oh, yes, here comes the expected guilt that comes with boundary setting, it will pass and I will be fine and so will mother".

My suggestion for you for the Christmas weekend is this.  While I think your husband is smart in trying to protect you, I don't know if its a good idea to preface the visit with a statement like: "listen, mother, I don't want to hear any bad talk about Dad when you come this weekend".  I think you might open yourself up for some defensive resistance and start off on the wrong foot - and she will enter the house feeling defensive.

Instead, I would go about the visit assuming she will not bash your Dad.  Then, when the first situation arises and she makes a comment about him that makes you uncomfortable, address it immediately:

"Mother, what you just said makes me very uncomfortable.  I would appreciate it if you would refrain from discussing your opinions about Dad during our visit this weekend" and then change the subject.

This will be less likely to evoke an argument - and she might be less likely to do it in the presence of your husband anyway.  Additionally, the statement indicates that YOU are uncomfortable, not that SHE is misbehaving.  This tactic has been very effective with my Nmother - because she thinks it's MY problem and not hers.

I imagine she may still react, if she is not accustomed to you setting boundaries. If she persists, I would suggest "I'm sorry you feel that way mother, but I've told you how I feel and need you to respect my request". or "While I respect your feelings, I really prefer not to discuss it any further during your visit".

You are correct in assuming she has no clue about her behavior.  And you can count on her never understanding.  The alternative then, is simply to take care of you and your feelings.

good luck.  The holidays are difficult for us with dysfunction in our families.

CC

KateW

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2003, 05:40:30 PM »
CC:

You are very wise - what good advice. I really appreciate your info on the two key feelings - not allowing the anger/discomfort to happen in the first place to avoid the guilt makes so much sense. And, like you said, I can't expect her to change or do anything about it. Thank you so much - I feel so much better!

rosencrantz

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2003, 06:55:54 PM »
I just wonder why your husband is getting you to do his dirty work for him ;-)  Maybe there are boundaries to be set here, too.  Do you feel responsible for everyone?  I know I do!!  And I'd respond to a request like that by feeling responsible for everyone in the equation (and oh what a lot of inner turmoil and conflict that would set up!).

But I'm learning not to!!

If he wants something, then he's responsible for dealing with it directly.

I agree with CC's view on tactics - but you're not responsible for what your husband wants, he is!

And really, I'd just ignore anything she says that you don't want to acknowlege or hear.  It's amazing how much you can get away with!!  Why not think up (in advance) a whole load of things to say to change the subject, even if it's only variations on a theme of "Pass the salt, please" and "What wonderful/terrible weather we're having this Xmas"!! If you're really brave, you'll find the power of silence!!!

Good luck!
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2003, 11:38:02 PM »
Yeah, you are probably right that I need to set boundaries with my husband too. I DO feel responsible for everyone. I just hate it. When I am with my mother and husband, I am just miserable trying to make everyone happy. You are right - talk about inner turmoil! My husband and I went to dinner tonight and we started arguing about when my mom will be here... ie. the spare bed's "too hard" according to my mom and she always moves to the couch in the family room while she's here which drives him crazy because she sleeps in late and monopolizes the whole room. So, I suggested I just go visit her which is what I'm going to do. Easier just to not have to deal with having her here and the problems it will create. I'm not looking forward to going up there but yes I do feel obligated since I'm not seeing her over Xmas.... I know what the rational answer is - don't go but I'm not quite there yet. Especially after all the horrible things she said when we had our recent blowout over my dad coming for Xmas. The thing is, if I decided not to go, what would I say? I'm so used to making up white lies so I dont "hurt" her feelings! Wacky, eh?

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2003, 11:40:19 PM »
Once again, previous post was me - I'll get this figured out sooner or later  :roll:

KateW

nightsong

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Mom's coming to stay
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2003, 12:55:51 AM »
Kate, you need to log in to have your name appear - took me quite a while to figure this one out!

Your post resonated with me too. My mother last visited in August. For the first time EVER, I stood up to her and objected to some thing she habitually does in our house that drives me nuts. Admittedly I didn't do it in a very adult way, but it was my first time after all. She didn't speak to me until November !! (Which was a blessed relief, despite the guilt). And now she is refusing to see us over Christmas. She thinks she is punishing us. We are so looking forward to Christmas now!

Sounds like one of the boundaries you might consider is about sleeping on your couch when she comes - that really is annoying. Can you and your husband present a united front to her about some of these things? If you are BOTH, calmly and reasonably, asking her to do/not to do something, I reckon it will be much harder for her to avoid complying. After all you have good reasons why this behaiour is not OK, and you can explain them to her. I know she won't hear them, but at least you will have behaved perfectly reasonably and there will be no need for guilt. Just a thought.

I do hope you have a reasonable time when you see her. I know that 'caught in the middle' feeling between mother and husband. Mine can't bear the way she treats me and often stands up to her when he thinks I'm being abused (he's right of course). Then I have to cope with her hurt feelings. So I can see advantages to being with her on your own, but it sounds pretty hard. I wish you strength for the visit, and then a lovely guilt-free Christmas afterwards.

Nightsong

nightsong

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Mom's coming to stay
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2003, 12:58:12 AM »
Kate, you need to log in to have your name appear - took me quite a while to figure this one out!

Your post resonated with me too. My mother last visited in August. For the first time EVER, I stood up to her and objected to some thing she habitually does in our house that drives me nuts. Admittedly I didn't do it in a very adult way, but it was my first time after all. She didn't speak to me until November !! (Which was a blessed relief, despite the guilt). And now she is refusing to see us over Christmas. She thinks she is punishing us. We are so looking forward to Christmas now!

Sounds like one of the boundaries you might consider is about sleeping on your couch when she comes - that really is annoying. Can you and your husband present a united front to her about some of these things? If you are BOTH, calmly and reasonably, asking her to do/not to do something, I reckon it will be much harder for her to avoid complying. After all you have good reasons why this behaiour is not OK, and you can explain them to her. I know she won't hear them, but at least you will have behaved perfectly reasonably and there will be no need for guilt. Just a thought.

I do hope you have a reasonable time when you see her. I know that 'caught in the middle' feeling between mother and husband. Mine can't bear the way she treats me and often stands up to her when he thinks I'm being abused (he's right of course). Then I have to cope with her hurt feelings. So I can see advantages to being with her on your own, but it sounds pretty hard. I wish you strength for the visit, and then a lovely guilt-free Christmas afterwards.

Nightsong

CC

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2003, 01:25:01 AM »
Kate,

When nightsong mentioned "having a nice Christmas together after the visit" it reminded me of something my husband and I have done since the first year we were together (9 years ago).  We have our own "Christmas" on Christmas night (the 25th) after all the entertaining, visiting and family stuff has been finished.  We exchange one inexpensive gift to each other Christmas Eve with his family Christmas (usually at our house), and then we exchange a similar type of gift at my Nmother's Christmas morning at brunch when we go there - just so we have something small to open at each gathering along with the relatives.

Then after it is all said and done, we go home, make sure we have some really good wine and cheese in the house, and spread out any our our favorite leftover hors de ouvres in front of the Christmas tree, and light a couple of candles. We nibble, drink, listen to Sinatra, and I put on a special little outfit  :wink:  - then we exchange our big, important gifts (unless we get distracted first).  

Because the holidays have always been very stressful with my family, this is my absolute FAVORITE part of Christmas - we are relaxed and truly enjoy the holiday with no one else around and its a fun way to incorporate a little romance into the holiday too.  The only bad thing is my husband and I seem to spend more and more money on each other each year because we want more presents to open for this ritual so we can prolong it!  last year we added stockings for each other to make it even longer.  

I used to dread the holidays because of dealing with my family.  Since we started this ritual, I have taken more pleasant ownership of Christmas.
If you are able to do this, I highly recommend it.  It gives you something to look forward to after all the "putting up with the bullshit" time.  If your mom will be there Christmas night, plan for it the next night. Or make up your own new ritual that involves the things you really enjoy - and save it for the end.

P.S. Tell your mom that she'd better not sleep on the couch because there are monsters under there and you are concerned for her safety.  (hee hee, sorry, its midnight and I'm a little punchy).
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'

KateW

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2003, 11:50:50 AM »
Hi all,

Thanks so much for your support and good ideas to deal with all the craziness. Last night I decided to go up there this weekend to visit (instead of Mom coming here - it just causes too much tension between me and my husband), and then I will be back for Xmas with my dad and husband which I am really looking forward to. But now, I don't even want to go up there after I said I would! I just feel like checking out.  Nightsong, I can't believe your mom wouldn't talk to you because you confronted her on her annoying habit! What is wrong with these people??? Oh, I know, they're N's! CC, I like the idea of the alone time you and your husband create for eachother - that's a great idea. I don't know what to do about this weekend... I almost feel like just saying I'm not coming up. I am so torn. I just know it's not going to be a good time. My mom will be there acting like everything is just peachy keen and wonderful and then she'll be upset because I'm not spending the night (I just want to go for the day). Plus, my NSister is crazy - hooked on pain pills and moody and rude. But if I don't go, Mom will be upset.
KateW

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2003, 01:31:52 PM »
Kate,

My suggestion is: yes, go and visit your mom FOR THE DAY. If your sister starts acting up, LEAVE. They have to realize that you demand a baseline of respect. If you don't get that you will leave, period. Your husband can't deal with your mother, so keeping  them apart is probably optimal. My mother is hurt every time I leave to go home -- yet she doesn't lock the door on me the next time I come over. Your mom won't either.

bunny

KateW

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2004, 04:44:50 PM »
Thanks for all of your advice. My mom didn't end up coming down - I know this wasn't the right thing to do, but I told her we weren't feelnig well. Should have just been honest and said SHE didn't make me feel well :lol:  I did end up going there for the day (thanks to Bunny) last weekend (without my husband because he can't stand going up there). She did try to be on her best behavior.  But, get this. She gave us a nice cookware set for Christmas. I got home, showed it to my husband, who loves to cook. He called her, trying to be nice, and said that we had cancelled our plans for that night because we wanted to stay home and cook with the new cookware. She told him she was sure he was "just saying that". When I got on the phone with her after my husband talked to her, she said that "Todd is such a bullshitter" and "I'm sure he's just saying that". Of course I coudn't confront her because he was standing right there and I didn't want to hurt his feelings. Why do N's feel a need to attack spouses?? Just when I feel things are heading in the right direction after setting boundaries for Christmas. By the way, I called her Christmas Day to say Merry Christmas and she had to say how "disappointed" she was with the way the holidays turned out and how she still couldn't believe I spent Christmas with my dad, and that she thought that I would want to spend the holidays with her because she was supposed to be dead from cancer two years ago! (she's in remission). It's amazing how she only thinks about herself.

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2004, 08:21:20 PM »
Dear Kate,
I haven't read through all the posts but did read you last one.  You mentioned that you were feeling guilty for telling your mom you weren't feeling well.  Don't.  Sometimes you have to take care of yourself in a way that does not cause hurtful backlash from the N.  You could have been talking about my mother.  When things don't work out the way my mother wants them to she feels slighted somehow (remember the N does not empathize).  When she feels slighted the only way she can recover her 'ego damage' is to (excuse me) crap on someone - and N's are very proficient at hurting - going for the jugular.  So she attacks your husband's character knowing it's ultimately a put down of you.  I have a lifetime of experience in knowing how that feels - awful.  We, the children of these folks have been trained to deny our own needs and take care of the N.  If your mom spent even one tenth of the energy that you spend considering her feelings, worrying about how you were feeling, your life would be very different.  Take care of yourself. Pat

Anonymous

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Mom's coming to visit - so many feelings and guilt... help
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2004, 04:07:00 PM »
----She told him she was sure he was "just saying that". When I got on the phone with her after my husband talked to her, she said that "Todd is such a bullshitter" and "I'm sure he's just saying that".


Ignore this crap and enjoy the cookware!

bunny