How to let go? Very very long....

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya all

I'm sorry to burden you with all this again but I think I just need some answers.  Athough I have no contact with him at the moment, when he gets ill/sick or dies, I will still have to go and sort out his affairs because there isn't anyone else.  I think this may be why I'm having trouble letting go.  So I'm posting some of our last e-mails.  I would appreciate to hear your thoughts, especially from people who have dealt with this kind of thing.  I still go through phases of thinking have I done enough, surely there must be something I can do to help.  I've been through this cycle quite a few times and don't know how to break it.

So I have a few questions:-

1.  Was I too hard?  Do you read this and think I have done enough?  Do you think I did the right thing?

2.  What do I do if he makes contact again?  How can I change things by we don't end up in the same cycle?

3.  How do I let go for the time being?

Any help and advice would be welcome.  So here we go.... these are the bits from his emails that stops me contact him.  All these were from end of last year and beginning of this year:-


But you will have to accept I am what I am, and that is that. I was born this way. I may not like it, but I have to accept it, and so do others. Many people throughout my life, including my Mother said I have to change.
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Also remember I lived next door to my Grandmother and Grandfather. I did not have these problems with them, despite living there for 26 years. That is almost as long as you have been born.
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I suffer from depression, which I usually manage without taking drugs. If you carry on, I may end up having a total breakdown, and losing everything. Is this what you want?
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Everyone, and now including you has told me I have to change.....except for one person, XXXX (his ex girlfriend, the one who he met when she was 15). I always believed I would find my soulmate, someone who did understand me, and she was taken from me....
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I sometimes get a cold or virus, or the effects of such for a couple of hours or so, but usually manage to shake them off.
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Life is all about confidence.
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I also agree you should earn your respect, although regarding the respect of your mother and father, I think it more a case of them losing your respect through their actions, rather than not earning it. For instance if one is violent to the other, or steals or something.
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I know it is difficult with divorced parents.......one reason I do not believe in divorce. It's another thing I'm 'different'. I do not believe the view 'just because you have children you should have to sacrifice your life'. Once you have children, your life comes second BUT the children have to respect you, and your views. This is the main reason for most of societies ills today.
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I have my boat as a place to go to take Barney, as I don't have a garden, only a small brick yard. I would love to swap it for a small field. But fate decided that I was to have a boat, not a field, so I make the most of it.
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As to getting paid.....where does the government get it's money from......me. I still pay most of my money in tax. Fuel, VAT, TV and car licence, insurance.
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The person at fault, is the one in the wrong. That is not usually debatable.
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And from what I understand you were violent to her once also and slapped her.  
I will just explain this. I was never violent to her as such, but if I remember correctly, I was trying to get her to answer a question, with either yes or no. She refused point blank, keeping silent, so to get her to talk I poked her with my fist, but because I was so angry I did it too hard. This was while I was lying in bed alongside her and was sideways.
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His response to questions about his back
I'm sorry you did send this email, and just when I thought we were getting somewhere. I asked you before not to carry on with this subject. Obviously you have no respect for me, otherwise you would do as I ask.

Most of what you say in your email is absolutely and totally wrong. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

PLEASE DO NOT MENTION THIS SUBJECT AGAIN.

If you want to talk sense then I will.

Thank you once again for upsetting me.

Your devistated Father.
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As to the mental problems. I appreciate you are trying to help, but you are not, and in fact making things a lot worse. If you continue, you will make me ill. If I become ill and cannot look after myself, my life will as good as be over.
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If you take drugs, legal, subscribed, or illegal, depending on the substance if you take them continually for more than 2 weeks you become addicted. More by luck, and chance, I have discovered how to cope with depression for instance.
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You say you have common sense. When you start using it we will start to have an understanding.
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Self help answers that I sent him:-

Acknowledging that you are solely responsible for the choices in your life.
I agree
Accepting that you are responsible for what you choose to feel or think.
I agree
Accepting that you choose the direction for your life.
I agree, to a point. A person with severe learning disabilities cannot become a doctor for example. Or a person born with no arms and legs cannot become a top athlete, completing at olympic games on terms with fit people.
Accepting that you cannot blame others for the choices you have made.
I don't. 
Tearing down the mask of defense or rationale for why others are responsible for who you are, what has happened to you, and what you are bound to become.
God is responsible for me, and what I am to become. It is my freedom of choice if I follow him, or not.
The rational belief that you are responsible for determining who your are, and how your choices affect your life.
God determines who I am.
Pointing the finger of responsibility back to yourself and away from others when you are discussing the consequences of your actions.
I don't do this.....others do.
Realizing that you determine your feelings about any events or actions addressed to you, no matter how negative they seem.
I know this.
Recognizing that you are your best cheerleader; it is not reasonable or healthy for you to depend on others to make you feel good about yourself.
This is why people mistakenly think I am arrogant sometimes.
Recognizing that as you enter adulthood and maturity, you determine how your self-esteem will develop.
It has. 
Not feeling sorry for the ``bum deal'' you have been handed but taking hold of your life and giving it direction and reason.
God has given the world to the Devil. I follow God, hence I get a 'bum deal'.
Letting go of your sense of over responsibility for others.
Other than trying to explain the above, I don't do this.
Protecting and nurturing your health and emotional well being.
This is EXACTLY what I am doing.
Taking preventive health oriented steps of structuring your life with time management, stress management, confronting fears, and burnout prevention.
Ditto. 
Taking an honest inventory of your strengths, abilities, talents, virtues, and positive points.
This is how I have survived so far. Many others would have been at the bottom of the river, or under a bus/train. 
Developing positive, self-affirming, self-talk scripts to enhance your personal development and growth.
This is directed for the younger person. I have had similar advice in my teens.
Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background, and awareness.
I only blame people who are wrong. 
Working out anger, hostility, pessimism, and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment, and misdirection.
I do this on a daily basis.
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Society today puts the man with the most money at the top. It says he is 'successful'. The man who can buy a new car daily is 'successful'. The worlds rescources cannot sustain everyone having a car, let alone everyone having a new car daily, so this is wrong. This is how I am different. It does not make me wrong.
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Asia - Yes, it puts things in perspective. I actually have sent a little as well. Not to appease any feeling of guilt, just to try to help a little. I do actually 'count my blessings' even if I don't shout about it. Before modern communication, we only heard of these disasters months later, when brought by word of mouth from sailers.

Not trying to preach or anything, but it did happen on Boxing Day, the day after mankind makes a mockery of Christmas.....supposed to be celebrating the birth of Christ. Not punishment from God, just another fact reminding us God has given the world to the devil until he takes it back.
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Btw....just remember those who do not follow God's teachings will have everlasting damnation (or 5,000,000,000 years) the length of our universe. Don't take my word for it, ask the vicar, or priest, or even you mother in law.

You're braver than I am if you are willing to risk that.
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I have already told you. Your either follow  God, or the devil, there is no 'third way'. This is the 'choice'  we are given.

You are wrong to follow the devil, but that is your choice.....so be it.
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I don't take offence, but God does, so before you speak for the devil, please be careful. Actually I do take offence. I am very offended you don't believe me. I usually tell the truth, and I always have done. I got a good hiding and into real trouble when I blamed my sister for breaking a bird table off, that had a rotten stand when I did it. I was about 8. Of course I have told the odd lie, but in general I always tell the truth. That is why I am guillible, because I expect other to do the same.
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If you followed God, you would spell his name with a capital G. It is not your fault you are thinking as you do. I'm not blaming you. Just, as your father I have to tell you, otherwise I would be failing in my duty.
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You are correct in your interpretation of morals, however you are incorrect in not honouring myself or the others if you don't listen, and discuss. By all means question what we say. But expect to listen, and learn together. It is not good enough just to tell people what to do or say, you must also explain, or try to explain why. This is another reason to live in harmony with your natural mother and father. Before our modern way of life, the family would often sit in the evening and read the bible, which contain the rules for life. On Sunday you would go to church, or Sunday school. Yes I may be wrong not to go to church, if there was one that met my beliefs. Maybe I just don't know of it.
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Saying you are the daughter of Mr and Mrs XXXXXX (my Mum & Stepdad), and having a blessing, not a wedding is not really the best of starts is it. It is nearly always better to tell the truth, even that may be hard for some people to accept.

Of course 'he who pays the piper, calls the tune' but it still does not turn wrong to right.

Just becasue I'm a Christian, and forgive people, doesn't mean it doesn't upset me all the same. I will withstand the hurt, and unfairness, and will just have to cope as usual. After all, I'm used to it now and expect nothing less.
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The only critism I have of you is you seem to think people should make an exception just for you. Unless I am mistaken, you did tell me you tried hard to ask the vicar to marry you in church, as XXXXX (my husband) wedding was just something he did on the spur of the moment.
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Your father is the one to walk you down the isle and give you away. I have had to take the unfairness of not being allowed to be able to bring you up, and just because I suffered this mainly in silence, is no reason for this to continue now you are an adult. It is just one more kick in the teeth, in a long line of being kicked in the teeth. Just because I am more forgiving of others than most people, is this really a reason to expect me to always be the one to give in, without complaint, or at least voicing my opinion. After a lifetime of these experiences happening, I should't be surprised, but there is always hope. As I have already told you, I know the reason this happens, so no need to elaborate anymore.
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You keep saying I threw you out when I didn't. I sent you back to live with your mother, because of your attitude. I didn't expect undying gratitude, but I did expect a little respect, and understanding. I asked you to get my meal for the first time, as I was inconsolably upset, and you could only be bothered to get me beans on toast. I just wish you would understand. You have a responsibility for your own actions after you are 16, and must take the conscequences of those actions. Looking back, my father threw me out when I was 25. I went next door to Grandad for a week, as I was moving away. He was probably right to do so, although he was also responsible in some way for my behaviour.

When I visited, I thought things were now ok between us. I was very wrong of course. Because of this I also mistakenly thought you may like to right a few of the wrongs that has befallen me in the past. However I do now realise how this will appear to some, and how you think you were being reasonable.
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I almost feel as if I wouldn't care if I never saw you again. You have caused me days of depression and misery, and everytime I see an email from you, I am almost terrified of reading it.
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I'm sorry you cannot accept me for being ME. There is nothing I can do about that, also there is nothing wrong with me. Many agree with me.




I will post some of mine in the next post, so you can see both sides.

[Healing&Hopeful]

Irrational Ideas:-
Everyone should accept and approve of me - You say I should accept you and believe what you say.
I should always be able, successful, and "on top of things." - This is why you say I have been successful at everything I've done.  Whereas you haven't because it is unrealistic to be.  This is another reason why you think no one should be divorced... it's idealistic and irrational, therefore not realistic.
External events, such as bad luck, other people, a sick society, cause unhappiness. I can't control these things, so it's not my fault things are so awful. - This is why you think god has given the world to the devil and you have a bum deal.
 
Of course, without the problems being definable, objective, specific, manageable, and circumscribed, depressed people don't have specific plans, i.e. doable, clear-cut, self-help steps in mind for attaining realistic goals. Without plans for changing, they have no hope and no motivation. They feel like victims, not masters of the situation. That is unreasonable. They can change. - Take the depression, you took drugs which treated the symptoms but by going to counselling you will be treating the cause.  What will happen when XXXXXX (his dog) dies which unfortunately will happen?  What steps are you taking now so you don't end up the same after XXXXXX (his last dog) died?
 
They see nothing illogical about giving credit to luck, other people, God, fate, etc. for the good things - This is why it is fate you have a boat, went to work for XXXXX (his old boss) etc.
 
And, their "solutions" for their problems are often unrealistic, such as a person with two children and an unhappy marriage who wants to have another child "to improve the marriage" - Your solution is unrealistic in this instance because your solution is that I have been corrupted by society.
 
Some of us, hating uncertainty, need an immediate, simple, "it's for sure" explanation; others of us need lots of data, time to weigh different opinions, and careful thought about the issue before we arrive at an explanation. This reflects the difference between simple "black-and-white thinking" (dichotomous thinking) and complex "tolerance of ambiguity." Depressed people grab hold of immediate, clear-cut but pessimistic explanations; that is their "explanatory style," namely, "it's my fault" (happy folks blame the situation or someone else), "my weakness messes up everything" and "it will never change, so why try?" Wow, what a prescription for depression! Reality is: you aren't entirely to blame, the supposed fault won't mess up everything, and the situation--including you--can and will change. Depressed people must learn to think differently. - While at the moment you don't think things are your fault.... It can only be your fault or someone/something elses (the dichotomous thinking).  At the moment everything is god/fate or the other person.  You can't change so therefore everyone must accept you, whereas through counselling, if you'd let it, it would make a big difference.
 
So I do still stand by my offer to ring your surgery and make an appointment and come with you to see a doctor.  Together we could get you transferred to a counsellor... and this is the option to do something about it, but you can only do this by being responsible for this thought and action.


Because you see things in black and white, good or bad you have a much limited view than majority of other people, this is why you are perceived as different.  But then because you can only see right or wrong, one person has to be right and the other wrong.  What you believe is true so therefore the other person is wrong and should agree with you.  It is perfect logic but unrealistic.... this is again where counselling would help you.
 
But you can only do this if you are responsible for what happens to you which is why I have been saying about choices.  If we take the boat, you weren't able to buy a field because when a field came up someone else got there first... it's no fault of your own or anyone elses but because you can only think it's either you or someone/something else, it is obviously fate, so while walking down by the marina (where the thought came from), you thought, I can't get a field so I could maybe get a boat.
 
You have the most amazing daughter and I really hope that one day you will be able to see it fully.
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I do follow god, but I do not believe god has given the world to the devil.  That is the difference.  It is what I believe, and our priest and XXXXX (my husband) parents, in fact most of the people in the UK!  I will not suffer damnation because I don't believe god has given the world to the devil.
 
Again god giving the world to the devil is another unrealistic, irrational view that you choose to believe.  If we are looking at your statement rationally, you are the only person who is following the devil under the pretence that you are still following god.  Everyone else is following god because they do not believe god has given the world to the devil.  Please go to church on Sunday if you don't believe me, maybe then your vicar can help you.
 
Even regarding the 10 commandments.  You are unable to follow them yourself (I know you have sworn!), so how do you expect everyone else to?  This again is unrealistic and irrational.  If you expect everyone to live by the bible, this again is unrealistic and irrational.
 
What is realistic is for people to have good morals (ie. honesty, kindness etc), work hard (and by this I'm not on about money or going to work, I mean work hard at everything you do), provide for themselves and their family, help others when possible.  These are what our parents teach us.  I don't have to agree with Mum, XXXXXX (my stepdad) or you to "Honour thy mother and thy father".  This again is a unrealistic expectation.
 
Again this comes down to your coping mechanisms not being learnt correctly to take you through life which is why you believe what you do and again why I feel you need to see the doctor.
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No offence, but the people in Thailand, Sri Lanka, Indonesia are generally Muslims and therefore don't celebrate Christmas.  This is just a very unfortunate freak of nature, caused by the plates of the earth rubbing against each other creating the earthquake which in turn created the Tsunami.  No one's fault, and the devil is not responsible for it.
 
It is partly because of these kind of thoughts which is why I am concerned about you and feel that you do need to see the doctor.
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I read your e-mail with interest as I am the daughter of Mr & Mrs XXXXXXXX (Mum & Stepdad).  XXXXX (My stepdad) is the person who contributed to raising me, both financially (throughout childhood and again now) and emotionally so I feel it is fair and right his name is on the invitations.

I am sorry that you feel hurt but I did say what was happening right from the beginning, regarding who was doing what, who was paying for what and what names would be on the invites.  I actually feel it is you that is being unfair in this instance.  I have been very fair and took everyone's feelings into account.  This is why I asked you to do the speech, so you can be a part of the preceedings too.
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You are my biological father yes, but unfortunately I don't feel like you are my dad.  Since I have grown older I do appreciate how difficult it must be to be a part time dad but I still don't really have anything in common with you or a connection with you.  Because of this it just wouldn't feel right for you to walk me down the isle but because we would like you to be part of the proceedings, we asked you to do the speech.  This is where you can say to everyone in the room how you feel about us and what your hopes are for us and is your moment... It also takes a few months planning a good speech too so really gives you a chance to have your input.  As for saying giving me away in church was your only highlight left... you'll still a young man.  57 is not old and maybe you should try and have some ambitions yourself.

Regarding what you say about relationships, I just don't know what to say.  For someone who agrees that you have to bend and change with the relationship, I am quite gob smacked that your unable to change.

Regarding your critism of me it is true.  For one day, for our wedding day I do expect family and friends to make exceptions.  If people can't make exceptions for us for that one day, then when can they?  As for the vicar, we asked but it is church policy and we respect that.  If we had tried hard we would have looked around for other churches or we could have got married in a Methodist church.  We didn't choose to go down this route.

As for saying that you feel a bit fed up that you take the disappointment and upset all the time, this is up to you.  If you feel this is the case then it is up to you to change by people react differently to you.

And for the last bit.... yes it is fair but we don't need a martyr.  This is a celebration for me and XXXXX (husband) starting the rest of our life together.  If you want to come and celebrate with us then please do, but if you want to be with your unfairness and upset, I suggest you don't come.
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Yes, your father is the one to walk you down the isle... but when your father has only been a part time dad with years where we had no contact, and also threw his daughter out of his house... it get's a bit difficult.
 
You and Mum divorced and I lived with her and XXXXXX (stepdad).  Yes it was an unfair situation and always will be but that is how it was.  You don't have to suffer in silence, but you do have to let it go.  You are not actually being forgiving but brooding and until you let it go and just say, well, it was unfair but it was out of my hands, you will always have a major problem with it.
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And that's ok then... you just sent me back to live with mum because of my attitude.  You keep telling yourself that.  The fact that I slept on the floor for a week and then had a bedsit is nothing to do with you.  What 17 year old knows how to behave and act when her father and his girlfriend split up hey?  I don't think that's in the standard book of growing up.  I am partly responsible but you were the adult and when you really look at the facts, your girlfriend left you and you told your daughter to go because she made you beans on toast.  You were 8 years older when your dad threw you out, bit of a difference.

As to my choice for not wanting to come every two weeks.... how do you think it was for me as a child?  Do you not remember the arguments on the doorstep when you dropped me off?  They couldn't talk to you but you wouldn't leave and they used to end up closing the door in your face.  I hated it and all I really wanted was to be like the other kids at school.  Play in the park, go to the shops etc.

When I lived in XXXXXXX it was just as easy for you to pop over for 1/2 an hour for a cup of tea with me.  I'm sorry but it's a two way thing and I'm fed up of this being so one sided.  To start with I didn't come out for the day with you because I had such little money myself.  It was hard enough just paying for me doing two jobs, let alone have some left over to pay for you also.  That first year in the bedsit was incredibly tough and it was down to XXXXXX (my old boss) and XXXXXXX (friend) and her dad who helped me.  I spent quite a few evenings with XXXXXX (friend) and her dad and stayed over often.  They helped keep my head above water.  I always remember that while XXXXXX (friend) was at college soon after I moved, they did a questionnaire.  It classed people as well off, middling, or paupers.  I was a pauper because I didn't have a colour TV, no phone, no dressing gown, no washing machine and many more things.  It was actually because of XXXXXX (friend) and her dad that I could go out at all.  If I hadn't have stayed at theirs a couple of nights a week, I would have been completely peniless.

If you were proud it would show, but it doesn't.  Even when you come over and we take XXXXXX (his dog) for a walk... anyone you meet you get talking for 5 mins and then say "that's my daughter by the way".  It's just so dismissive and I just wish the ground would open up and swallow me.
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Until you realise your responsibility, what part you play, life will always be unfair to you.  I do understand why you thought I could right wrongs done to you, but I was a small child at the time.  You may not know this but when parents divorce, the child normally blames him or herself.  I cannot right what wrongs you feel has been done to you... I am not responsible for anything that happened between you and Mum.  I am also not responsible for Mum remarrying and XXXXXX (stepdad) becoming my stepdad.  I am also not responsible for XXXXXX (stepdad) treating me like his own child and which results in me having the relationship with him like I do.  The only way I can describe it is you are my father, but he is my dad.
 
It depends how you look at it regarding the speeches and I should have realised that you would probably have looked at it like that.  Never mind.  You say about the facts for me wanting someone else to walk down the isle but the facts are XXXXXX (stepdad) was like a dad to me and my dad walks me down the isle.  Maybe you were like you were because of your own relationship with your father.
 
Yes, I did want to try and have a better relationship with you but I think it may just be too difficult.  As for doubting and questioning, all I can say is that I just find it so confusing.  You say one thing, then it changes, then it's something else.  Take your back for instance... first it was your coccyx, then it was a disc when all along the doctor was questioning your psychological health.  I don't have the brain of britain but I'm not stupid.  I read up enough to know that what you were saying didn't add up and I spoke to others who did have bad backs, trouble with their coccyx bones and with degenerative discs.  Fair enough, you believe what you believe and thats why you think your honest and genuine.
 
Yes, your breadloaf costs the same and you feel you are the only person who still pays your own car tax and gets no financial help.  You feel this is unfair which is understandable.  However when the social said about applying to the DLA, you feel that you'll get more but lose elsewhere.  Again, that would be unfair.  It doesn't matter what anyone does, you would still feel it would be unfair and you would be hard done to.
 
I'm not really the cause of your depression and misery but I can see why you believe I am.  If you seriously believe that I have caused you days of depression and misery then we really should call it a day and go our separate ways because things are not going to get any better.
 
I am tired of this and I'm very fed up.  I should be really happy, enjoying my engagement with XXXXX (my husband) and planning the wedding and that's what I want my priorities to be.
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I will tell you this...  When I set up you coming to visit last, I was thinking that you could meet people so you would know some people for the wedding.  That was partly why I set up the stock car meeting (the other part was I knew you would enjoy it), why you met XXXXX (Brother in law) & XXXXX (wife), why you met XXXXXXX (husband) parents etc.  I thought you would enjoy doing the speech because you like talking more than most.  I thought giving you the speech would be your chance to say how you felt about us and let you have your input which I said to you at the time.
 
I was trying to arrange everything to please everyone as much as possible in the circumstances... I thought that we could have separate tables but you could sit with XXXXX (BIL) & XXXXX (wife) because you had met them and spent the evening with XXXX (BIL).  I asked if you wanted to bring anyone so you would feel as comfortable as possible.  I asked if you wanted to invite any family members from your side.
 
I did all this for you and but obviously I didn't consider your feelings in the slightest.  All you have ended up doing for me is marring my experience of planning our wedding and causing me hurt and upset.  And after all this, you still believe that you are the one who was wronged, even though I made my choice partly because you told me to leave because I only made you beans on toast!  Maybe you should think about some of the things I have said to you and think about what your Grandad would say to you because I really don't think he would be singing your praises right now.  Even if I had said you to walk me down the isle, it would have been something else..... If you read up about child psychology, you will find that the child always tries to please the parent.  If it doesn't happen, the child will try harder and harder and keeps trying until it comes to the point where they can do no more.... where they can give no more and I am at this point.
 
Even this mornings e-mail, where I asked how you felt it could be rectified, but you couldn't be bothered to respond.  There are only so many olive branches and until you realise that a lot of this has come about because of your actions, your words and this is your consequence, I really don't want to know you anymore and I don't want you at our wedding... any of it.  For the first time this has been something that has been about me, totally me and you felt that I was selfish for wanting people to make an exception.  That really says a lot.
 
When you are willing to apologise and give something, I will be willing to listen.
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[Healing&Hopeful]

Unfortunately I do still feel hurt and angry because I don't feel you have acknowledged and accepted my feelings and views, and I feel hurt and angry that you expect me to agree with you and follow your views.  These feelings are my reaction to you and are not going to change so unfortunately I cannot see a way forward, unless I agree with you, do what you want etc.  Doing that might benefit you but unfortunately it doesn't benefit me and I will be left feeling more annoyed, hurt and angry which is why I don't agree with you and we are just going to go round in circles.  I cannot go back to the father/daughter relationship we did have because I felt that I just listened to you, invited you over, tried to please you and I felt it wasn't reciprocated so I ended up feeling annoyed, hurt and angry.  I feel angry that you expect me to right wrongs you feel was done to you, I feel angry that you cannot accept my choices because they don't agree with yours, I feel angry that you blame me for things that is your responsibility.  These are not reasonable things to expect.  I feel despair if I think we will just drift back to the kind of relationship we had and I really don't want to do that... even if that happened it still doesn't resolve the issues and this would just come to light again at a later date, except I would be feeling more angry.  Like I have said before, it does depend on you and the outcome depends on you.  I have done all I can.
 
That said, I do sincerely wish you all the best and hope you are well.  As I have said before I am happy for you that you have XXXXXX (his dog) and are enjoying your boat.  I am sorry but I just cannot see a solution and I am not prepared to keep going around in circles.
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I'm sorry you cannot accept me for being ME - I'll say again AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, I do accept you.  That is why I acknowledge that I'm happy you have XXXXXX (his dog) and your boat, that is why I listen, that is why I hear your views and I also acknowledge your views.  You don't listen!!!!!  What I don't accept is that you seem unable to appreciate my views and my thoughts because they don't agree with your own.  So please get the issue straight before you blame me (which you have done in the I'm sorry you cannot accept me for being ME).
 
So if anything I'm sorry that you cannot accept me for being ME!!!!!!
 
I only sent you a thank you because you actually took time out to buy a card with daughter on it.  In previous years you have forgotten my birthday altogether so I was surprised.
*****************************
These are your words - you don't accept me for being me, you only made me beans on toast when I asked you to get my tea when I was understandably inconsolable, I thought you may like to right wrongs which have been done to me, you've caused me days of misery.  You are responsible for these words.  You cannot dispute that.  These words mean - it's your fault for not accepting me as I am, it's your fault for only making me beans on toast so I had to tell you to go, it's your fault for not righting wrongs that have happened to me, it's your fault for causing me days of misery.  This is your coping mechanism to blame and this proves that you don't accept personal responsibility whatever you say.
 
I have spoke to two professional qualified counsellors who have told me it is time to draw the line and move on, that I have done all I can to mend fences and that I have done more than should have been expected of me.  I have accepted you as you are and accepted that you will not change.  There really is nothing more that I can do and I have accepted that. 
 
No contact means that now - no contact.  I shall not be sending you cards and I feel a good 100% sure this is not something I will feel differently about in years to come.  The counsellors have helped me realise this and I am telling you so you are aware and not under any false hopes and it means I can draw a line under it.
 
I hope you have a nice life.



Ok.... that's the lot!

[Cadbury]

I have to be honest.. I read most of it, but not every single word. I read all of your father's posts, I didn't then need to read all of yours because already I felt like I was reading things my ex could have written. There is that same way of writng that you can't quite put your finger on, that kind of "weirdness" that you somehow know isn't normal, but you cannot exactly say why...

The lack of self-blame, the "my way only" mentality... all those N characteristics that are so so familiar to me now. I think you have done everything you could have done... There is no reasoning with N's. I have learnt that myself. I have the same kind of emails from my ex, with the same responses from me Always trying one last time to get them to understand. It has taken me a year to learn that there is no point at all. Distance is the only way. You weren't too harsh H&H... the only fault is the same that so many of us have -- trying too hard for too long. Giving them chances they didn't deserve. You owe it to yourself to frgive yourself and move on. Forget about him now, he doesn't deserve you.

Take care xx

[stayhuman]

Hey H&H,

Sorry about the situation with your Dad. Like Cadbury, I haven't read every word yet but I am very confused about the whole beans and toast thing. Is he really holding a grudge against you because you 'only' made him beans and toast!?!
Sorry, but I find that really unfathomable.

......

[stayhuman]

I believe he really holds that grudge but I just dont understnd why. Sounds very bizarre.

[Healing&Hopeful]

Thank you Cadbury & Stayhuman.  Thank you for reading even some of it... I know it is very long winded and there is so so much there.

Rationally speaking I know he's quite a fruit loop (sorry that's not a very PC term), however emotionally speaking I just can't seem to cut ties completely.

Stayhuman, regarding the beans on toast.  When I was 17, his young girlfriend left him (however you will see that he says she was taken from him - WTF!!!.... She dumped him, moved in with another guy and was married 6 months later.), so he asked me to get his tea for him.  I made him beans on toast and then he decided he couldn't cope and told me to get out.  Recently because of the wedding and all the agro with him, I told him it was difficult because he threw me out.  This is where this is coming from.... he didn't throw me out, he told me to leave because I could only be bothered to make him beans on toast, therefore changing something that is his fault, into mine.  In his mind, nothing he could do about it... she should have made me a better meal and then I wouldn't have asked her to leave.

[Sela]

...he didn't throw me out, he told me to leave because I could only be bothered to make him beans on toast, therefore changing something that is his fault, into mine.  In his mind, nothing he could do about it... she should have made me a better meal and then I wouldn't have asked her to leave.

Ok H&H...a couple of questions to think about.....no need to answer if you'd rather not.

1.  Did you go back and spend years trying to make him a better meal (trying to proove you could make a better meal)?

2.  Are you still trying, one last time....to make him a better meal (by analysing his stuff..maybe you can figger out what to cook...to satisfy him or find out what's wrong with your meal preparation)?

The beans and toast are a really clear example, maybe, of exactly what buttons he pushed and your response to that (???????).

Maybe I'm waaaaaaaay off but I just thought I'd mention this in case there is any truth to it.  If you've been trying to resolve the same issue, over and over, for many, many years.........it makes sense why it is so difficult to let go.  Especially.....if you haven't put your finger on the issue.

(((((((((((((((((H&H))))))))))))))))))

Beans and toast were fine..... a wholesome, filling choice........considerate of you to bother.   He totally ignored/discounted/devalued your attempt to be kind and he tried to convince you that you did something wrong.....maybe you felt like you weren't adequate, after his lousy comment?

It never ceases to amaze me how good some people are at doing this!!

Sela

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi ((((((((((((((((((((((((((Sela))))))))))))))))))))))))


1.  Did you go back and spend years trying to make him a better meal (trying to proove you could make a better meal)?

No... every time I have cooked for him after this, I have made him something better, however I haven't cooked for him that often since.  We had the same thing when we got a chinese takeaway to share... went on and on about how it wasn't proper food.  Fine, if you don't want it, go and sort yourself something out... funnily enough he ate it, still whinging.  Because he threw me out, although he's been around it's been quite limited contact, 3/4 times a year.  When he threw me out Mum & bio dad were arguing because neither of them wanted me.  That hurts.

2.  Are you still trying, one last time....to make him a better meal (by analysing his stuff..maybe you can figger out what to cook...to satisfy him or find out what's wrong with your meal preparation)?

Since I've been with my husband, he has done the cooking when my bio dad's been round... and then bio.dad's looked down his nose at me, thinks hubby is a joke for doing the cooking and well, I'm not a very good wife.

It wasn't just the beans on toast, it was everything.  We did our house up and he came round to stay for a weekend and trashed it with his words, then let the dog on our cream sofas (honestly one of the cushions that you sit on was so covered in drool it was saturated).  I've nothing against dogs and we've looked after several dogs, however we just don't let them on our sofas as we make sure they have their own comfy bed.... or if they do go on the sofa we have a throw to put on first.  I felt to do that in your own house is fine, but I know I wouldn't go into someone else's house and say "come on then, jump up here".  Just so blooming rude.... hubby was fuming but let it lie as it was my dad.  Then he went on about what great houseguests they were.  It was bonfire night and the poor dog was petrified by the fireworks.  Would sit there shaking with terror after each one, so I went to pet the dog and give him some attention.  Bio dad went, No, leave him, he'll take it that your rewarding him for shaking.  For quite a few years I believed this because he had been to dog handling classes and stuff, but now I don't see how this can be true either.

H&H xx

[Hopalong]

Deeeeaaaaaarrrrr ((((((H&H)))))))))))))))))),
I read every word and ached for you. The torturousness of it. It's like trying to waltz with a one-legged man. The problem I see is that because your BioNDad is intelligent, it's harder to argue with his craziness. He is intelligent but he irrational, and full of self-pity, blame, and guile. You are trying to deal with him in a straightforward, logical, fair, and compassionate manner. And it's literally like trying to make a sandwich out of stones, then sit there chewing it and trying to pretend it's not really breaking your teeth.

I think it's your kind heart that wants to rescue him, in spite of how thoroughly, totally self-absorbed he is. You have exhausted yourself trying, and nothing you said was wrong or unfair. The right and fair thing is, you do sound as though you want to put a stop to it. I think there will be a grieving period when your actions catch up with your intention to be free of this anchor around your neck. Maybe the continuing impulses to "try" are to avoid that final grief. It is SO hard to grieve the dead relationships with still-living Ns, but I think that may be what you're going through.

I admire you so much for your courage. But I do think you've earned your freedom now. Many times over. He can sit on his boat grumbling and blaming and condemning, and things will end for him one day as they have to. It is sad, but there's really no way to change his destiny.
Hugs,
Hopalong

[Plucky]

Hi H&H,
honestly,  I could not read much.  You Nbiodad is disturbed.  I would not take to heart anything he says or writes.  He does not think logically.  Do not try and unravel and address his 'issues'.  It will make you crazy.   Don't spend your life wrapped up in his tortured world.   You cannot save him.  Save yourself and your own family.  None of this is your fault.  What is wrong with him, you could never have caused in the least.
Plucky

[Sela]

Dear H&H:

Thankyou for that big hug.  That's just what I needed today (seriously). 

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough about what I was really asking.  Rather than actual cooking.....I was really asking more about ....the behaviour of trying to be accepted as adequate or even....(imagine)....appreciated.

You did something nice for him (made him beans and toast).
He insulted you and devalued your behaviour and even blamed you for causing a problem (crazy making).
Did you feel inadequate, unacceptable, unappreicated?

...therefore changing something that is his fault, into mine.

I guess I was wondering if you've been able to notice a repeat of that type of thing......over the years?Where you try to do something nice and he totally puts you down and acts like you've caused a problem?

Also....if you feeeeeeeel like you must proooove something to him?? (or maybe are not aware of that feeling??).
This is something I think I did, in the past, but was not aware of.  Did you find yourself trying over and over to please him?  (again....no need to answer if you'd rather not).

This might be nutty but it just looks like a possibility.

  No... every time I have cooked for him after this, I have made him something better, however I haven't cooked for him that often since. 

So would you say that you didn't serve him toast and beans again because it wasn't good enough for him, because he would likely insult you again and because he would have more evidence of your inadequacy?  You made him something better to show you could?  And you were careful to avoid doing that very often to avoid his criticism and the feelings it evoked???

When he threw me out Mum & bio dad were arguing because neither of them wanted me.  That hurts.

I'm so sorry that happened.  That would hurt a lot.  Parents are supposed to support us.....especially in times of crisis.  Your parents failed and worse.......they hurt you.  So sorry H&H.

....we've looked after several dogs, however we just don't let them on our sofas as we make sure they have their own comfy bed...

That was rude and nasty for him to let those dogs on your sofa and leave it covered in drool.  Betcha he was jealous of the lovely job you had done of the place and so he tried to sabotage it.

About the shaking dogs.......gee.......my dog is terrified of thunderstorms, gun shots and such loud sounds.....she shakes like a leaf.  I always talk soothingly to her and give her hugs and pats when she's upset like that.  She always comes near me and sometimes she stops shaking, so that tells me she feels better.    Maybe he was afraid his dog would like you better than him?  Or he couldn't stand to see you do something he would never do.....

give kindness and expect nothing in return.

Tell ya one thing.......in my next life.......I'd rather come back as your dog than his.

  Sela

[Healing&Hopeful]

((((((((((((((((Hoppy)))))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((((((Plucky))))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((((((((Sela)))))))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((Hoppy))))))))))))... the way you are able to see things never ceases to amaze me.  I feel that you have a great ability there hon.  You are so right that he is intelligent.  At my granddad's funeral when I was about 21/22, my aunt (his sister) said that my bio dad was always the intelligent one.  I looked at her in amazement, because for years he's blamed it on bad schooling, bad memory etc.  And it makes sense to me about trying to avoid the grief... if I can help him, I don't have to deal with feeling like the pits for not having contact.

((((((((((Plucky))))))))))).... for posting "Don't spend your life in his tortured world".  You are right, it is my life and I do have a choice.

(((((((((((Sela))))))))))))))).... I hope today is better than yesterday hon for you.  I'm not sure about trying to prove myself to him... I think at the time I felt bewildered about why these people were treating me like this.  I think one of my main questions I asked myself was "What have I done?".  Now I think I know the answer to that.... it's existed.  They were very wrong.  Plus the less I have, the more complimentary he is.... like he thought my bedsit was great, however a three bedroomed house which we've done up ourselves, well, that's ok.  He hates me having more than he's got however he will not do anything to change things for himself.  The better I do, the worse he is so even if I have subconsciously been trying to prove myself to him (which is quite a valid possibility), in the long run it hasn't hurt me as I'm still the one who is much better off, physically, mentally and emotionally.  Thank you very much for helping me to see that.

Regarding his dog you may be right about the jealousy with our house... when he came over he suggested we put these iron things up to separate the room which would look nice.  Me and Hubby just humoured him with no intention of taking up his idea.  Imagine a cosy lounge/dining room, decorated in warm colours with an open fire and then iron bar kind of thing in the middle to split the rooms.  Doesn't quite go to me.

And thanks for telling me about your dog... she sounds lovely bless her and lucky to have a lovely owner like you.  When we were at his house, his poor dog goes and sits behind the chair and is shaking with fear for a good 2/3, possibly even 5 minutes.  Because bio dad went to dog handling classes, and has also told a fair amount of people about dog handling etc, for quite a few years now I really believed he was doing what was best for the poor dog.  I hate myself for that now.  I think you are spot on with him possibly thinking that his dog would possibly like me better or that I was doing something he couldn't do.

I want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart, for taking time to read, for understanding, and for giving me other perspectives on this.  You truly are all a very special bunch of people.

H&H xx

[Healing&Hopeful]

I'm just posting my thoughts now really, but I've just realised about his post on the website about me disowning him.

Disowning?  What an odd choice of word.  To disown him I'd have to own him in the first place which is impossible.  Also if we look at it from the projection point of view.... if he projects, this is his disowning which makes me think he thought he owned me in the first place.

What do you think?

[Sela]

Hiya H&H:

Thanks for another hug.  Today is better.  Thanks for your good wishes.

You truly are very special too.

Re: owning.....disowning.  Ya.  Like chattel.  I don't know him but the choice of words sure seems like he's talking about some kind of property??  Maybe not...some people just use that word "disown" to describe situations where family members stop their relationships.  Who knows?  Could be......or not a projection???

What do you care?   You have your own life right?  Let him tell his web mates whatever he wants.  It's all his fantasy world anyhow....if he wants to build it out of false stuff......goodie for him.

What's in it for you, do you think, reading that website?  (if you feel like answering that is).

  Sela