Author Topic: How to let go? Very very long....  (Read 13793 times)

Portia

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2005, 11:19:50 AM »
(((((((((H&H))))))))) I just read your reply above and don’t have time to say much now. Probably back here next week. But gosh. I do feel for you. And I get the feeling maybe you can’t yet feel for you, you the 6 year-old witnessing/suffering what must have been a horrific event. You the child being treated like an object, like an inconvenience. Those arguments on the doorstep – how old were you then? Did you feel as though you were the cause? Guilty/uncomfortable? I have to withdraw a bit because it does remind me of me and that can cloud my reading. I understand about the hugs too. Icky icky feelings.

You’re okay H&H. I think one day you’ll get your dad out of your head. And that’s where it counts. You have a fantastic flexible great big brain in there! :D It can do it. Have more to say but sorry not now.

Have good weekends all :D

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2005, 01:17:45 PM »
(((((Sela))))) ((((((Portia)))))

Sela.... another good thing is sometimes the phrase "Talk to the hand coz the face ain't listening no more"  :D  Hon, why should you have to explain yourself and your situation to strangers.  It's none of their business and if they don't understand, sod em.  They don't matter.  What matters is that your friends believe you, are there for you!  That you have people who understand (which you do on here).  Maybe it's time for you to answer a question (if you want to that is)... What have you got to feel guilty for?  What have you got to feel ashamed for?

Portia... I look forward to hearing everything you have to say.  I think you may possibly be right about me not feeling for me.  A lot of the time it's like it's happened to someone else.  Re: the arguments... they were probably about once a month, I'm not sure.  Mum & Stepdad would just shut the door in his face in the end.  I didn't actually witness the arguments and me and my brother were sent into another room, but you still hear, don't you?  I remember several between possibly the ages of 5-10, then around age 10/11 I cut contact with my bio dad when he got his new girlfriend.  Yes, I did feel I was the cause... if I wasn't there, if I didn't exist then they wouldn't be arguing and I definitely felt uncomfortable.

Hope you have a lovely weekend all. xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Sela

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2005, 07:17:34 PM »
Hi all:

H&H, here are my answers, 'cause I feel like it ( :D ) and 'cause you bothered to ask, thanks.

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... why should you have to explain yourself and your situation to strangers.

I don't have to and I don't do it, usually.

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It's none of their business and if they don't understand, sod em.

I agree......and I might actually remember to think that too sometimes.

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They don't matter.  What matters is that your friends believe you, are there for you!


Yes.  That matters.  And I know who my friends are too (I think  :?).

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That you have people who understand (which you do on here).

And that helps a lot.  Thankyou all who understand and who try to and who share so much.

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What have you got to feel guilty for?

As I said, I don't have anything to feel guilty for really but.....when a person, like a nurse calling me on the phone.....uses a derogatory tone like that and implies I've done wrong.....I don't always react the way I'd like to.  It's like some visceral part of me responds.....and probably as I suspect you might have already guessed....

maybe it's a learned behaviour?  ( :shock:  :idea:) Now where would I learn a response like that?  Jeepers. :roll:

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  What have you got to feel ashamed for?

I've done my share of wrong in life but generally speaking...I don't feel an overwhelming amount of guilt or shame over anything.  But I do react......as iffffffffffff.......I have done something wrong....sometimes.....when people push the right button.  :? :oops: (hey!  That in itself is embarassing!  Yep.  I react in a way I don't want to.  I don't like that.  I need retraining!!!)

Not always.  Just sometimes.  It shocks me.  I end up confused...asking myself:
"Now why did I react like that?"

Yep..I think I need a new microchip.......but where do they sell those????
HELP!!! :shock:

I don't THINK I have reasons to feel guilt.........I don't carry a big basket of guilt (as far as I am aware)....but I sometimes react, in my gut, by feeling guilty when I haven't done a darn thing wrong.
In that case....I might blush or turn red......I might look down......I might seeeeeeem guilty.

Probably need to get on a couch someplace, stare at the ceiling and dig, shovel...deep deep down......waaaaaaaaay down and back, in the past....to figger out what started all of that.

It's not like it happens that often.  I guess discussing this with you just reminded me of it and now I'm wondering again.....like I do after the fact??   Excercising my brain cells eh? :mrgreen:
Maybe I'm the only one who does that (react in a way I don't want to sometimes)?  Maybe not?

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I did feel I was the cause... if I wasn't there, if I didn't exist then they wouldn't be arguing and I definitely felt uncomfortable.

Ahhhhhh!  But that's not true!! (it's your belief but it's a debilitating, untrue one, imo).  If you weren't there.....they'd still be arguing because they married the wrong person and that's what they did.....that's why the marriage ended......that's the way they deal with problems....they argue.   And if it weren't you.....they were arguing about.....it would be about someone else or something else.  And if ......it weren't eachother they were arguing with......it would be with someone else.  Because those kinds of argumenters feeeeeeeeed off arguing....and I betttttt.....at least one of them....is or would still be.... busy arguing with some other poor sucker about some small person or thing some place.....right now....if the opportunity presented itself.

Not your fault.  Not your fault at all ((((H&H)))).

Sela
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 11:12:34 AM by Sela »

Portia

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2005, 11:10:31 AM »
Hiya :D

A lot of the time it's like it's happened to someone else.

Yup. Is this called splitting? When we can’t process what’s happening to us so we split off the bad stuff, we don’t feel the associated *emotion*. Numbing out. Zoning out. Instead of feeling angry and sad at the way we are treated as kids, we split it off (because we believe our being angry and sad are unacceptable emotions to our care-givers and therefore we have to deny them).

This is pretty heavy stuff at this link, but it does talk about splitting (and projection of the bad stuff on to other people). I haven’t read it all yet but it looks like solid information (as opposed to airy-fairy meeting-some-drug-company’s-profit-targets type ‘information’). http://primal-page.com/spliting.htm

Gotta go and buy food before the roads freeze over. Looking forward to talking more H&H.

j_stice

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2005, 03:17:02 PM »
Simply put he believes it is his way or the highway, he won't accept anything that you have to say about this and won't accept you may have a valid as well as reasonable perspective. No matter what happens it appears that he will continue to try and play on your guilt / emotions to get his way. His comments are just masking his true intentions which is to dominate and dictate the terms of your relationship with him. It is traumatic but remember that if you relent and agree to his terms he will try to enforce them.
"It takes one person to change the world and you could be that one person"

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2005, 04:04:42 PM »
Hiya all....

Gosh, it so blooming cold and frosty here!

Sela... it's good that you know you have nothing to feel guilty or ashamed for.  I am really glad to hear it.  I feel that we all sometimes don't react the way we'd like to and I think we all analyse the way we reacted sometimes and wonder why.

Regarding the arguments, they were divorced Sela.... if it wasn't for me, they wouldn't have to deal with each other at all.  It would have been any other relationship where children aren't involved and they would have gone their separate ways, never to see each other again.

Portia... I have been thinking back a bit... I was older than 6 when the fire happened because we'd already moved house and I was 8 when we moved, so I must have been about 8/9.  I remember feeling very small next to dad and his friend when we were looking out of the window, across the road at the burnt out house.

I've heard of the term "splitting" but have never read up about it, so thanks for sending the link and I'll go and have a read.

J_stice... you are right, it is his way or the highway.  What hurts is that I know he's sitting there blaming me and holding a grudge however there is very little I can do about that.

Thank you again for taking time to reply, but I'm very tired at the moment... look forward to hearing your responses and hope you're all having a good weekend.

H&H xx

Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

j_stice

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2005, 04:30:16 PM »
Actually it is exactly the opposite, there is a lot you can do about it. Arm yourself with the knowledge that this is the way he operates and make the decision to accept him as he is or not. I had an experience with my aunt who always used to nag me about a certain way I did things. She found it difficult to accept that there could be anyother way of dealing with people.

She was totally accepting of the behaviour of others and refused to respond if someone wronged her (she had someone have a car accident with her totally ruining her car whilst speeding and a provisional driver and because of her personality she was tempted to accept responsibility for the accident and acknowledge that the report to the police and the insurance company could have been libelous (something that a lawyer confirmed it wasn't). So she fought the court action and won. The point of this story was to say   empower yourself with the right information and knowledge. Get the right people around you and trust your instinct You know what to do!

One more thing Healing&Hopeful I will keep you in my thoughts and well wishes and please feel free to contact me because listening to the way you have survived inspires me to continue!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 03:08:56 PM by j_stice »
"It takes one person to change the world and you could be that one person"

Plucky

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2005, 05:51:32 PM »
Quote
However when I think about not reading, I feel quite scared. 
Hi H&H,
I really understand about this fear.  You have devoted so much and so long to this struggle with your pop, that you know at some level you'll have a lot of free energy to cope with after you let go.  It's scary.  Who will you be, if not defined by him or his fight with you?  What will you do?  Will you have to form relationships with normal people?  Will that work out?  Is there a big stack of stuff you were going to do when you got him all sorted?   What are you going to have to face?

No great advice here, just that I understand.
Plucky

Plucky

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2005, 05:53:49 PM »
Hi Sela,
that nurse was wrong to believe your dad, but face it, he's convincing and on his deathbed, why should he lie? (You know why, I know why, we all know why, but not her.)  I bet what he really was feeling was, shame for having treated you and your siblings so badly.  He didn't want to face you too, when going also to face his maker.  Of course he had to blame it on you lot. 
Plucky

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2005, 10:34:12 AM »
Hiya all

Thanks for the replies... it's his birthday today and I'm feeling a bit flat.  I've not got in touch or sent him a card or anything but it's tough and I'm still feeling very tired.

Take care all

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

j_stice

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2005, 03:20:31 PM »
Hey Healing&Hopeful,

First thing don't bother yourself about his birthday, is there any reason that you should have? If you did what would have happened another call, e-mail or contact with him thanking you for the card then what? Back to the old scenario of his diatribe. I am sorry to be so blunt, but the fact your feeling flat could be because of the situation or something else. Don't worry the feeling will pass but do things to try to cheer you up exercise, cook or do something creative that you love.

 If you really feel that you want to send him a card or contact him, do so that he won't feel the need to reciprocate and contact you if your still struggling with the situation. Just try to remember that taking each step one at a time and each day as it comes and everything will eventually be easier.

Its obvious from your nick that you have a positive attitude and outlook just don't lose sight of what you want.

(Jeez I feel lame writing this since most of it you already know!!!)
"It takes one person to change the world and you could be that one person"

Plucky

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2005, 11:45:12 PM »
Hi H&H,
what did he give you on your birthday?
Plucky

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2005, 02:12:06 AM »
Hi H&H,
what did he give you on your birthday?
Plucky

Hiya Plucky

He got me a card "To a loving daughter" this year.  This was after a couple of months of not speaking, so I thanked him for the card.  Normally he forgets my birthday which was why I thanked him.  He doesn't see the harm in sending cards but I said no contact means no cards either and he hasn't sent another one since.

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Sela

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2005, 09:41:14 AM »
Why am I getting the feeling this guy is a master guilt trip inducer???

Quote
...if it wasn't for me, they wouldn't have to deal with each other at all.  It would have been any other relationship where children aren't involved and they would have gone their separate ways, never to see each other again.

I'm sorry to keep coming back to this point but I just don't think YOU deserve the blame for this.  If it wasn't for THEM being messed up adults........they might have been intelligent enough and concerned enough about YOU to NOT deal with eachother in such a way infront of you.

If it wasn't for THEM getting together and having a child together.......THEY would have been doing the same thing elsewhere, causing the same guilty feelings in some other poor kid, with some other mate (betcha).

Because if THEY were mature, healthy, caring, adult parents.....THEY  would have made SURE that YOU didn't carry ANY guilt on account of THEIR behaviour.  But THEY didnt' do that.  And now....even as an adult yourself......it seems you think somehow that YOU were responsible for ANYTHING.

You weren't.  You were just a kid.  THEY CHOSE how to communicate with eachother in front of you.  So they may have gone their separate ways, if you weren't around.  So!  You WERE around.  And that wasn't your doing.  THEY could have been pleasant and reasonable......around YOU at least.....to spare YOU any further upset......because YOU were the little person who was NOT responsible.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((H&H))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I hope I'm not driving you nuts with this point.  It just seems important.  Like you've carried this responsibility since you were so little.  And now......as if you STILL feel like you OWE something.......for YOUR part or something?

YOUR only part was being a child and needing loving parents.  You didn't start the problem and you certainly were not the problem.  You did not carry the problem on.  You were a little girl.

Would you wish this kind of guilt on your own kids....in such a case?  Would it be their fault the way YOU behave with whatever EX you have?   If it weren't for them.....you'd be off happily living your life some place, without conflict????   Would you agree that they should feel guilty for simply existing....for being around......or if they felt guilty or responsible like this....would you accept that?  Would you want your child to believe HE/SHE was the cause of any arguments?   What might you say to your child?

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He got me a card "To a loving daughter" this year.

Not........to the daughter I love.  I love you daughter.  Happy Birthday to the beautiful daughter God blessed me with that I love with all of my heart!

To a daughter who loves me.  Gives me love.  My supply!

(Sorry H&H.  It's just that it looks like you're feeling guilty for not sending him a card or acknowledging his birthday?  And that doesn't seem fair because they don't make cards that read: 

"To an N Dad").

 :shock: :D

Maybe it's part of grieving......that feeling flat on his birthday.  Grieving for the day that should be a happy one for you.  A flat feeling for not having a dad that you feel glad and happy and comfortable celebrating with.  Grieving for the little girl who feels responsible for somehow causing that?  Like there's something wrong with you?  To make your dad act that way?  No H&H.  It's not you.  It was never you.
Or feeling flat for wanting to send a card......and not wanting to.  It's confusing maybe?  Empty?

((((((((((H&H)))))))))))

I think you are doing a marvelous job of not engaging with him.....considering all.   I'm glad you're posting here and I'm glad you didn't send a card.  Please be kind to you.  It's ok to do that.

 :D Sela

Sela

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Re: How to let go? Very very long....
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2005, 09:59:30 AM »
Hi Plucky:

Quote
that nurse was wrong to believe your dad, but face it, he's convincing and on his deathbed, why should he lie? (You know why, I know why, we all know why, but not her.)


Oh yes.  I agree.  He was convincing....so convincing...always.  That's how I knew he wasn't out of it......mentally....on his deathbed.  He was quick as a whip.  Still whipping.  With words.  All cylinders were firing.

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I bet what he really was feeling was, shame for having treated you and your siblings so badly.  He didn't want to face you too, when going also to face his maker.  Of course he had to blame it on you lot.


Anything is possible but I doubt this.  He never seemed to have a conscience..unless he grew one somehow right before he died?  I doubt it was shame driving him.  More likely.......his desire to keep his lies from being detected.

That nurse came to his funeral.  She went on about what a nice, sweet old man he was.  How much he loved his wife (my mother).  How he talked and talked about how she was as beautiful as a movie star!!

He was cruel and violent and abusive to my mother for 44 years.  He called her every name in the book but beautiful wasn't one of them.   Imagine his adult children visiting him and the nurse mentioning this stuff??

No words were necessary to convey my reaction to her information at that funeral.  I'm sure my look....alone......was enough to let the nurse know that he had duped her.  Poor nurse.

In one way he managed to hurt me one last time before he died but in another.....he did me a favour.  If I had visited he probably would have said many and more mean things.  He probably would have rejected me, embarassed me, belittled me, insulted me, lied about me to whoever was present and probably caused me a lot more pain than one sentence from nurse on the phone ever could.  So really, I feel lucky and grateful to that nurse for telling me....for asking him.

And I don't feel much other than pity for him because you're right.....he was on his way to meet his maker.
Poor him.

Sela