what would you do about this?

[write]

I have tried not to judge, and I truly hope they will be the happiest couple on earth. I don't forsee it being easy for them- he is twice her age for one thing, but she is old enough to make her choices and live with them, and he does as I say behave differently when she's around. But she'll be coming half-way around the world to a different culture; that's how we were friends in the first place, our shared experience and culture shock.

I think she's naive- but then we all were and would we listen to those people who told us our partners were bad news etc? If anything I became more determined to prove everyone wrong...all those things I've learned from experience I don't think I would have learned any other way, I made my choices based upon the 'psyche' I had at the time.

Now I would see it as a red flag if no one much liked my partner- back in time I just thought I knew him better/ he's different with me etc Things she says.

I feel like being a friend in this case is simply trying to hang around and if it turns sour she has someone here to turn to.

Because I do wonder why she isn't pushing him to apologise, if she really wants me to be around them, that's what I'd be doing if I wanted to make things up. I suspect he has never given it another thought and it doesn't enter her head that it's him she should be talking to, not me.

As for being gracious with him- I really don't have a problem with that. Or superficial socialising-  I don't expect him to become a friend, I'm not actually a very forgiving person that way- once someone has hurt me I can't trust them again.
But if we were just to meet I want to know that he is sorry for his behaviour and there will be no further outbursts on his part. Until I feel that's the case I'll continue to avoid him.

Hopalong- you're right I would interfere if it were my son or daughter. I'd feel I had to speak my mind then, but that's the kind of family we are too. Everything gets said!

If I speak my mind to this friend I think she'll just feel like I'm being 'I told you so' if things don't work out.

I am not prepared to be treated badly by people who think they can say anything they like.
I want to internalise that as a reaction so the moment something feels uncomfortable even- I can speak up or get out. That's the lesson for me personally here!
And part of that was recognising my discomfort at getting messages pushing me to do something I don't want to.

[Hopalong]

Hey Write,
I heard 2 nuggets that were very valuable to me. I have only a slippery grasp but every time I think about them, it helps:

1) "In a healthy system you are always free to comment."

2) 'You can always ask for what you want. But the only way this works is if you let go of the outcome."

Those are both (esp. number 2) mind-boggling notions for me. Do they apply in any way to this situation of yours, do you think?

Hopalong

[write]

thanks Hopalong.

Will think about those...

[Gail]

I'm wondering if you couldn't help her explore any reservations she might have about this man.   She may have them, but is not trusting her judgment or listening to those internal warning bells that we often "hear" too late.  If you can explain to her about your feelings, it might trigger some reflection on her part.  Done gently and with some tentativeness, she may be able to see your love for her.  I know that a couple of good friends shared their reservations about X BF and it did make a difference to me.  They reflected to me what I knew in my heart to be true.

Maybe she's pushing you to have more of a relationship with him because she wants to know why you won't.

I could be totally off base here and if so, just ignore.

Gail

[Healing&Hopeful]

Because I do wonder why she isn't pushing him to apologise

Have you asked her?  Maybe she is.

Write... I'm going to be very honest with you and I apologise now because this isn't going to be what you want to hear.  However because I do care I'm going to post it.  I could easily have got my wires crossed but from this and another post of yours about yesterday evening when you were helping your neighbour.

I agree with Hoppy's post about the two questions and I also agree that you should possibly think about what you'd like the outcome to be.  And I don't think just the outcome of this, maybe think about long term outcomes.

It's not necessarily a weakness to do something you don't always want to do, it's not necessarily a weakness to forgive people for comments even if they hurt.  I feel it's about finding the balance.... and sometimes it's the bigger man who can forgive for the sole reason to be there for their friend.  Do you know what I mean?

Wishing you lots of strength.

Take care

H&H xx

[write]

not sure why you're apologising H & H? You don't say anything offensive or potentially so, in fact I agree with you.

I feel like if I can just stay in the background then my friend will have someone to turn to if things go wrong.

But I don't feel I have to play 'happy families' with them in the meantime.

I would forgive him- if he apologised.

As for my neighbour- well that's a tried and tested friendship, it'll be fine. She just takes me for granted sometimes, we have a 'sisterly' relationship and sometimes she forgets I am very sensitive.

This thread really helped me sort out how I feel, thanks everyone.
Hope you're all having a good Thanksgiving.

[Healing&Hopeful]

not sure why you're apologising H & H? Sorry, old habits die hard I guess... I'm used to apologising You don't say anything offensive or potentially so, in fact I agree with you.

I feel like if I can just stay in the background then my friend will have someone to turn to if things go wrong.   And what happens if things don't go wrong?  How do you think she will feel about you and more importantly how will you feel about yourself?

But I don't feel I have to play 'happy families' with them in the meantime.  Obviously I don't know this guy, or her, but is there not a possibility that they are happy?  In which case I feel that you wouldn't be playing happy families, you would be happy for her.

I would forgive him- if he apologised.  Why does he have to apologise for you to forgive him?

As for my neighbour- well that's a tried and tested friendship, it'll be fine. She just takes me for granted sometimes, we have a 'sisterly' relationship and sometimes she forgets I am very sensitive.  I feel that it's great that you're sensitive... a good quality to have.  But sometimes we can be overly sensitive (and I speak for myself here as much as you) and it can get in the way of what friendships we'd like to have.  Cause us more disruption than we need.  I read from this that because you are very sensitive, she needs to watch what she says to you... I may be off the mark here but maybe this is something for you to ponder on.

This thread really helped me sort out how I feel, thanks everyone.
Hope you're all having a good Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving

[mum]

Write: I have been reading this thread, but I am baffled, really. Relationships are just so sticky.

I have been where your friend is. When I got involved with my exN, the father of my children, I was told repeatedly what a shit he is, etc.....but for many reasons (that took years of therapy to conclude) I went ahead and married him anyway....
My sisters who did not like him at all, for the way he treated me and everyone else, basically shut up and were kind to me for 13 years...must have been tough for them. When the blinders came off and I decided to divorce the cheating NNNNNNastiness, my sisters were right there behind me. Not really telling me "I told you so" but really, they didn't have to say it.  They just supported me.
I don't know if they refused to do anything with me because of him... but I'll bet they did...politely declining, etc. Helps that we lived very far apart, though.
I am surprised they came back to my rescue though.  Wouldn't blame them if they wrote me off.

I think you are on the right track, though. Don't do anything that violates your own boundaries.  Be there when and if she needs you.  I think that sums it up.

This stuff still confounds me though. Maybe I'll pick it up on another thread.

[j_stice]

Hi write,

All I can say is this tell your friend and explain to her why you feel the way you do. Then listen to your heart making sure not just to listen to the words she is saying but also her true feelings towards you. Se will tell you not by her words but how she expresses herself (without words) how she feels. Then make your decision because all the words in the world be able to help her convey what she needs to say to you, mean it and follow through with those words.

Yes again I am saying something that you already know and understand but I hope just repeating to you help you make whatever decision you need to make. Just remember you have support here whatever happens!