New here- I was attacked on another board, is this a narcissist?

[insomniac]

Hi all, I'm new to posting here, but I have been checking this board out for several months now.  I haven't posted before this because I was trying to put the past relationships with N boyfriends behind me.  Now I've encountered some attacks from someone new on another board.  These attacks remind me a lot of my most recent narcissist boyfriend's attacks.  Please let me know what you think.


Her:  I am curious about how many of us have genius I. Q's on this message board. As introverts we tend to be members among the most gifted in society although there are exceptions to every rule. Personally mine is well above 150 and my fiance is above 140 and ranked second in nationwide testing in his country among children winning him scholarships all the way through college, my mothers is at 180.

What about yours?

Me:  Um, yes, mid 140's.  Makes me wonder if they shouldn't set the threshold higher...

Her:  Actually the scoring goes much higher. You being an Narcissit is it plausible that you have an I.Q as you state in the mid 140's.

Thanks! I would love to hear from more of you.

P.S. broken ___(me) thanks for giving me a glimpse on exactly the reason you are in fact broken. Smile!  (link to a thread of mine about how I attract narcissists)

Me:  Huh?  My thread was about DATING narcissists.

Oh, I thought it was 140.  Is it 150 then?  I guess the extra points would have helped me remember that!

Her:  Broken (me),

I don't appreciate your tone in your above comment. Please be advise that you are to take better care when addressing me.

Oh, if you didn't realize what someone with an 140 I.Q would know than perhaps you should remain in your thread discussing the realization of acting like others since aparrently  this thread is above your head and beyond your understanding.

Best Regards...

Me:  Apparently...it is.

For what it's worth, I didn't mean that last post in am offensive tone.  It was my attempt at a joke.  Sorry if you were offended.

Her:  (moderator, who jumped in to my defense),

While I appreciate your concern and stand by those concerns myself. You should equally be unappreciative about the condescending tone that spaked my justifiable response.

I am not into hurting the feelings of others nor allowing the same in return.

Best regards...

Her again:  Broken(me),

Your apology is accepted. Please excuse my response based upon your attempt at a humorous "joking" comment.

Best regards...


(That's where I left it.  I did not want to provide more supply.)

Oh, on my thread about narcissists:

Her:  Now I understand.

Click on:

The Abuser in Denial

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse4.html

Me:  Yes, I've read much about that.  Have you heard of the phrase "pathologizing the victim"?

Her:  No. I'm sure you have. Please tell me more about it. (Smile)

I did not respond.  I'm blocking her messages now, but when I'm not signed in I can see she's been posting to that forum like crazy.  She only joined 2 days ago, and she's already posted 44 times.  She's being super sweet now to everyone else.

I'm left shaking and angry and feeling vulnerable.  I feel like she's going to attack me now whenever I try to post something there.  Am I just being too sensitive?

[Hopalong]

I don't know if she will or not but all you can control is your response or lack of response.
"Letting" an N have the last word is a frustrating but I think valuable exercise... Let it happen.
They "win". They "win" again, etc. (IOW, every time they veer off into trying to hurt you...you stop. Just don't say a word.)
Then you resume the conversation with anyone else you'd like to talk to on the board.
You are NOT obligated to respond to every single voice who speaks, especially if your instincts tell you one of them is out to harm.

Sounds like a very safe and excellent opportunity to practice boundaries, non-reacting, ignoring taunts, all of that. If you like the board in general, don't let anyone drive you off it. One thing to be aware of, I think, is using the word "you". Once you  start saying "you" in an accusatory way...it's all downhill from there.

Okay, there's all my serious advice. My inner evil twin really wants you to post as your response this link: www.thesupplyroom.com. That would just be sooooo pleasant, every time an N goes there.

Good luck and let us know!
BTW, last night I read somewhere a whole forum based around getting people away from the suite101 and any other N-issue forums that seem dominated by Sam Vaknin's writings and followers.

Hopalong

[mudpuppy]

Hi insomniac,

Sam Vaknin is a self proclaimed NPDer. His sites are brimming with acolytes and other NPDers. If you don't want to get flamed then stay away from good ol' Sam amd his henchmen. Occasionally a troll on patrol will respond to any critical remark of Sammy even in this forum.

This woman is so N she seems to be a caricature of an N. But of course its actually impossible to caricature an N. They're walking and talking caricatures already.

Why not post your story here. Very few of us bite. Some do, but not too many.

mudpup

[write]

I think on any board there always appears someone from time to time who is just out for trouble, best to ignore them is my thought. They are just out for conflict and if it's a strong core group most people will quickly see through them because they are inconsistent and always changing tack to cause most conflict.

If it's a board where such stuff happens all the time it's probably not a good place for you if you're recovering from a n-relationship.

[write]

BTW, last night I read somewhere a whole forum based around getting people away from the suite101 and any other N-issue forums that seem dominated by Sam Vaknin's writings and followers.

you mean like a recovery from phony recovery forum?! It's cool people are seeing through all that ****

[Hopalong]

Hi Write,
Here's one place I found interesting:
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html

And below is an excerpt from this page: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=npd_family.

[To me, one thing that stood out are that his psychologist's credentials are from a diploma mill. Hop]

Sam Vaknin is often hailed as a top (if not the) leading authority on Narcissism, and has published/facilitated a plethora of useful and insightful information. However, Vaknin is also a Narcissist and has said that he himself is therefore not to be trusted. Do your best to look at this situation objectively and with a grain of thought. Please don't dismiss him completely, but wariness is not a bad thing. And above all, trust your gut. Here are a few links about Mr. Vaknin, authored both by him and by others.

Vaknin's NPD Site

Vaknin's Biography/Résumé

Vaknin on Blogger

Journal 40: A Holiday Grudge

Reviews of Vaknin's book

Was There a Need to Revisit Narcissism?
 A post in this Group

Sam Vaknin - true or false?

Sam Vaknin Revisited

Narcissism on the Internet, Critically

A thread at healnpd

A thread on Suite101

I'll post these links under "Vaknin Perspective" on the What Helps board too.

Hopalong

[insomniac]

Thank you all for your responses.  I'm sorry I wasn't very clear about the other board.  It isn't a narcissism-topic board at all, though it is discussed from time to time there.  It's actually a great board for people who are highly sensitive, so it is heavily moderated and the kind of response that I got from this woman is very rare.

I know what you mean about that Sam Vak sites.  I kind of wondered if she hadn't found something I said about them in one of my posts in a search and came there to target me.  (Maybe I'm a little paranoid...)  

Speaking of other sites, has anyone seen this site?

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html

***That's so funny, there was a new post about this while I was writing!***

I thought about discussing my story here many times, but since dealing with these N's, I've been having a hard time expressing myself.   The words to say only come to me in little spurts.

Thank you all for your input.  This board has helped me a lot in learning how to spot a narcissist, and I hope to learn more.  (I didn't even know what they were until a few months ago.)

[CeeMee]

This Vankin person did not go unnoticed by me either when I first started out researching N.  His/Her site is so full of negativity and sarcasm, I found it quite distasteful not to mention unhelpful.  I tried to find other N sites but quickly realized, S/he had a monopoly it seemed.    Once I brought the name up on our board here and got no response from anyone.  Funny, I thought he must be a guru or something and no one dares to say anything about him.  Thanks Hoppy for bringing it up.  Everyone's responses here have validated my gut instincts about that board.

Insomniac...welcome to our board.  The folks here are the best.  That thread from the other board is  something I've not seen go on here.  This is a safe place with some of the smartest people around.

CeeMee

[write]

we don't believe in gurus here Ceemee- unless we're all gurus!

xo

[miss piggy]

Hello all,

Hiya Ceemee, just wanted to clarify my own nonresponse to any discussion re Sammy.  It's not that I don't dare, well, I cringe a little.  But that's out of disgust, not fear.  I'd just rather ignore any discussion about those sites...and focus on the helpfulness of this one. 

Insomniac, welcome.  I'm sorry you had such a nasty experience on the other board.  It's hard to say from the dialogue above if that person is truly N or just sporting with you.  Either way, it was obnoxious.  But an N would focus on "facts" that would position oneself as "superior" to another vs. focusing on relating to the other person. 

Just curious...why does it matter if this poster is N or not?  If you are looking to avoid trolls, there are many helpful sites that give great info on protecting oneself.  Search on trolling and internet safety etc.  Good luck!

MP

[Sela]

Hello Insomniac:

Welcome.  I'm sorry to hear about what happened on the other board.  That doesn't sound very nice.  So good for you for looking elsewhere for support!

the kind of response that I got from this woman is very rare.

Glad to hear that.

I know what you mean about that Sam Vak sites.  I kind of wondered if she hadn't found something I said about them in one of my posts in a search and came there to target me.  (Maybe I'm a little paranoid...)

Or maybe your gut is telling you to beware and this is the right thing?

I was looking around the link you posted, clicking my way onward and found this very helpful (a little off topic)

Unfortunately, from the mid eighties to the present, the codependency idea has become bastardized, and with each new self-help book the symptoms of codependency mount. It is literally impossible for anyone walking the planet, with a fourth grade English reading capacity, to finish one of these books and not consider the possibility that he or she is a codependent. What began as a term to help spouses of addicts encourage sobriety and not inadvertently make it easy to continue, the codependency movement of the 80s and 90s has thrown the baby out with the bath water: Not only is all caring manifested by the spouse of an alcoholic deemed pathological, but the very act of compromising one's needs to aid a loved one is now deemed symptomatic of a progressive disease processes, a relationship addiction. ~ Robert Westermeyer, Ph.D.

and this......

There is little sympathy in the codependency movement for such observations. Unfortunately, any expression of criticism or skepticism can itself become a symptom of a mental disorder. Anne Wilson Schaef has written that "Your judgmentalism is a characteristic of the disease." From: CoDependency

This is helping me understand why I have a distaste for this label.  It does feel like an unfair judgement, to me, the label codependant....simply and absolutely.  And I never did buy that there must be something wrong with; those who care deeply about someone who's behaved badly, or those who sacrifice and give to others, on a regular basis.  It just doesn't seem like a problem the giver has....it seems like a problem the taker has. 

If someone gives and gives and gives and the other person only takes and takes but never gives back......I just see one person taking advantage of another person's generosity, which imo, that generosity is not a disorder or a problem....but an attribute.  It's a choice to give and a choice to take and those who do nothing but take are the one's needing adjustment, if you ask me.  If we were all inclined to give more than we take....the world would be a fine place indeed, I bet.

The label codependant......is like some psycho-punishment dished out for not being selfish.  Gee.  No wonder I've had trouble digesting that.  I've seen people on this board label themselves codependant and write how they are working on that and sometimes I just want to say:

"Hey! It's not your problem.  You don't enable anything.  People make choices!!  People are choosing to use you!!  You're not at fault for that!!"
 
I've just now realized.....the label codependant...is like......blaming.  Actually....blaming the wrong person.

Thanks Insomniac.  Hope you stick around!

  Sela

[Hopalong]

I'm glad you brought that up Sela, thanks. I squirm at the CoD label too.

A question I have about it though is, reading the CoD stuff did help me in the sense that it helped me recognize that I can have a tendency to choose to be used.

Because I've had a hard time firming up boundaries, which does make me ripe for exploitation.

I have a better time setting limits with N-ish people now...but in my desire to be of service and always, always compassionate, I laid myself down on the RR tracks one too many times. Really. Squished.

For me now, regardless of label, the task is to maintain self-respect without developing HUGE RIGID boundaries to replace the mushy ones I had for too long.

Anyone else dealing with that? Ideas about building boundaries that are flexible but strong? I will sometimes let myself me used and then when I figure it out I get over-defended. Oy.

Hopalong

[miss piggy]

Hello all,

You know, I have a different picture in mind of Codependent.  In a word, nag.  the kind of person that needs a "problem" (usually an alcoholic) to be "fixed".  This kind of person needs a problem to be around like a dog needs a bone to gnaw on.  Many people in my life come to mind, but namely my Ndad who needed to "fix" my brother's marriage to a BPD.  Jeez, he wouldn't give up.  And it's really handy that there is a problem to deflect the spotlight off you and onto the problem.  And I wonder if this was the original definition (don't know) of why some alkies couldn't sober up because their CoD were a part of the alcoholic system.  In other words, the nag need the drunk to drink to have something to nag about.  But I don't know.  But I will admit to preferring this idea over pathologizing niceness...I also think one can be an alcoholic and a codependent at the same time...

I admit up front this could be inaccurate and just plain wrong thinking.  But...just my two cents on codependency.     MP

[write]

For me now, regardless of label, the task is to maintain self-respect without developing HUGE RIGID boundaries to replace the mushy ones I had for too long.

Anyone else dealing with that? Ideas about building boundaries that are flexible but strong? I will sometimes let myself me used and then when I figure it out I get over-defended. Oy.

I have pretty good boundaries now- except where love relationships are concerned. I don't know if it's the bipolar or my history or what, but falling in love even slightly- which I do far too easily- makes me completely unable to see the person for who they really are before I get involved....I have no judgement when it comes to men. My father has been an inconsistent, selfish, sentimental man, I think he is borderline pd, though the men I'm attracted to are usually npd.

I've decided to take a couple of years off relationships and hopefully recover from the past ones, and know what I want for the future.
I guess it's having the confidence to wait for a whole relationship rather than settling for bits of ones...

I guess it might seem extreme, and I'm always being told it's time I found a new man, but if I do I suspect it'll be a new person but the same old man!

I think codependent people are overinvolved people, probably because they don't eblieve anyone would truly want them without all the support or coping skills they provide; however the downside is they often 'enable' people in their lives and subconsciously resist positive changes those people try to make.

I think we all have codependent traits to some degree but it becomes pathological when they are pointed out and we still don't back off or become ultra-defensive!

[insomniac]

Thank you all for your warm welcome.

I just trying to post a reply, and somehow it was lost, so I'm going to have to try to remember what I wrote...

An update on the attacker--she left the board last night.  Several other members on the board did not like her attitude towards me and questioned her on the thread.  She proceeded to put-down several others, including the moderator.  She left the board with a huff, and the thread was deleted shortly thereafter.  Hooray and good riddance!      I guess it upset me so much because I was starting to really open up about myself there, and she jumped at the chance to twist my own words to use against me.

I first learned about the existance of narcissists on that board, and proceeded to research the subject, as it seemed possible that my boyfriend could be one.  As far as I could figure it out, my most recent boyfriend was a cerebral narcissist, and the one before could have possibly have been a sodomatic narcissist(definately passive aggressive).  I found this board towards the end of my study, and it was a welcome relief from the negativity on all the Sam Vaknin sites.  I did find some useful information there (and probably lots of misinformation), but as I searched, SV's words were ALL I could find--site after site.  One source is no way to do research.  My biggest problem with SV, apart from the negativity, is that he crowds out anyone else who may have valid information about this subject.

As far as co-dependancy is concerned, I agree that strong boundaries are the answer.  I think society stresses to us how we should put those we love before ourselves.  Maybe we have to love ourselves enough not to let someone else hurt us, whether we love them or not.