husband is controlling me....

[evelyn]

I am desperately seeking someone to share my sorrow with in the hopes that I may hear something that will offer me the needed courage to deal with the following:

My Husband is controlling, manipulative, he tattles, (shares intimate personal information with others), undermines my relationships with family and friends, (all in the name of helping ME, of course, keeping me on track, he's so intelligent, don't you know).  Monitors money (obsessed with it), Phone bill, (can't stand long-distance in any amount), monitors gas consumption in my vehicle, (need to consolidate those little trips to the store, after all.)  I am becoming increasingly agitated.  I am a 41 year old, bright, decent, (with admitted issues of my own, as we all have), fun-loving, people oriented, bubbly  individual.  He is none of these.  He is an analytical engineering type, (no offense whatsoever to the profession.)  He tells the children, (10 and 12 years), I am crazy..."mom needs help",   "her fault",  Before I can even finish expressing a feeling or a concern, it's my fault, I am exaggerating, etc.  I cry so often I hate to go out anymore.  I am losing myself and fear the worst regarding my ability to remove myself from the madness.  He "sweet-talks" me out of the idea of separating, it's too costly to support two households, and yes, of course,  he loves me! (Blech)  He'd rather I go mad!!  He belittles me, then denies it.  I have it coming if he needs an excuse for belittling me.  I am the problem in his eyes.  I tell him he must be seated on the left side of God himself, as I have never known anyone in my entire life as perfect as he claims to be.  I am so depressed and alone in this crisis.  I am suspecting narcissism, (reaaallly now Evy dear?).  He saw a psychiatrist, (going to prove himself after all), says the psychiatrist told him he IS NOT narcissistic.  This doc must be good, he gave him such an in-depth analysis all in one session!  Wouldn't that be nice?  I could use some input and a friend or two, or many!  I look forward to your replies, and I thank you in advance!

Evelyn

[miss piggy]

Welcome Evelyn!

It sounds painfully familiar, the slow but sure eroding of your self-confidence.

I cannot tell from your message, but did you say to him that you thought he was narcissistic?  Just wondering. 

Just from what you have written I wonder if he is somewhat obsessive-compulsive.  I'm not a professional or anything.  But Order is paramount, it seems.  And yes, he does seem N.  Tattling to your friends?  Really unfair.

Have you considered therapy for yourself?  Or are you getting any help in any way through reading, support from understanding friend, or anything?  Mostly what i have found is that there is no cure for the controlling person, because of the need to control.  It's the people in their orbit who seek therapy and/or support to cope with them...

Hopes this helps a little.  Many of the topics here are pretty helpful, so you can page through and see that you are not alone!  Post more if you want to.  Take care, MP

[Sela]

Hello Evelyn:

So sorry for all you're experiencing after what sounds like awhile of marriage.  Please know that you are not alone.  You are welcome here and you will find lot's of people who understand and who will offer you support.  Stick around....for you right now.

Here's a few questions for you to think about (don't feel obligated to answer here....if you don't feel like it).

1.  How do you see the future....if you stay with your husband?  Is it likely to get better or worse?

2.  Do you think anything will change for the better.......if you just keep on the way you are?  What will change things for the better?  Can you make that happen?

3.  Which is better/worse for the kids.........watching you disintegrate or seeing you save yourself?

From your description......you are being abused.  Emotionally.  You are being emotionally abused!!!

4.  What do you think your children are learning by watching you being emotionally abused?

I can be too darn blunt sometimes.  I really mean no intention to hurt your feelings or cause you great distress with these very serious questions.  I had to ask myself these and the answers changed the way I went forward.  I'm hoping it will help to think about them.

((((((((((((((((((big large huge hug to you Evelyn)))))))))))))))))))))

Sela

[evelyn]

Sela,

You do not offend me in the least. Your questions bring about difficult answers.  Of course, the results are not desirable.  You are exactly right-on.  What purpose does continued punishment serve?  I see no signs indicating even the smallest change.  And like you said, the children will suffer and more likely than not, find themselves in the very same circumstances that I now face as adults.  It is my dutiy to seek the most comprehensive help I possibly can.  Thank you for taking the time.
Evelyn

[Hop guest]

Wow, Eveylyn, that's brutal.
I'm so sorry.
I totally echo the fact that (despite whatever faults or "issues" you have, who doesn't?)--his behavior is ABUSE. Read up on the characteristics of abuse anywhere, you'll find controlling money, even the smallest financial independence, is a big red flag.

However, money does seem to be a core issue in the conflict and maybe you'll need to think seriously of downsizing and changing your lifestyle so you can afford freedom and peace, whatever decision you come to. Not afford a duplicate lifestyle, necessarily, but think about what level of consumerism is necessary for inner peace. Reading a lot along those lines might help too...just a guess.

The literature on the "Voluntary Simplicity" movement might be comforting. Key word there is Voluntary. If you have no income of your own, that would be an important issue to address. Very hard with young children, but you sound resourceful.

Good for you for your determination to get help and support!

Please do seek counseling. You deserve an ear.
It wouldn't hurt to print out your first post and take it with you...

Hopalong

[write]

Hi Evelyn, it's a steady process of building yourself up and extricating your scorched self-confidence from the ring of doubt-fire your h has so caringly constructed around you.

Read Patricia Evans: The Verbally Abusive Relationship, it is so useful for identifying those behaviours which you feel and know are abusive but to everyone outside seem trivial, also the term 'crazy-making'. That was a liberating day the first time I saw that word....

I can tell by the undertone of sardonic humour in your writing you are a woman of spirit and capability, hope you post a lot more.

PS. re. costliness.
My ex said this about maintaining two households, it was his big excuse for ages, we can't possibly afford it...but we afford it easily with a little reworking the finances.
Plus it's a lot cheaper than long-term psychiatric care...

[Sela as guest]

Hi again Evelyn:

It is my dutiy to seek the most comprehensive help I possibly can.

I love the way you put that.  I agree.  It's not just your duty to show your children the way to live in peace and what a person must not tolerate......but it is also your duty to yourself to look after you.

You deserve so much better than what you're living in.  No one deserves to be abused.  You are waaaaaay more valuable than that.  And your children are too.  They're absorbing it....and it hurts them too.

About the money.....there is no money in the world that can make itself more valuable than the peace your freedom will bring.   The relief from the continuous pick, pick, picking alone is worth it's weight in gold.

It may be hard financially but at least your money will be your own....to manage as you see fit..rather than a tool for him to use to grind you down with.

Small steps Evelyn.   Is there a woman's shelter anywhere near?  They will understand and there will be valuable resourses for you there.  Also...often counsellors for low or no cost.

Keep posting Evelyn.  Keep reading. 

Someone once told me:  "We all have courage.  We just have to use it".

Don't let fear take over.  You're still you.  You've just lost some confidence but you can get it back.

regarding my ability to remove myself from the madness.  He "sweet-talks" me out of the idea of separating,...

It sounds to me like you want to remove yourself and your children from "the madness".  My advice, although I am certainly no expert either, is to first......remove yourself...emotionally....from the madness.

The technique is simple but not easy (takes time and practice but you'll be surprised how quick you can make this work for you).

Imagine he's speaking another language.  You don't really let his words in.
His mouth is moving and there is air passing in and out but..in your head...there is some gibberish.

   It can even be fun!  You can pretend he's saying really crazy stuff....like:

"I have purple teeth and I pick my nose when I'm asleep".

Stuff like that.  I'm serious.  I want you to stop crying about the crap he's saying/doing whatnot.

My guess is ..if you can get to the point of  saying:

"Uh huh"......"What?....hmmmmmmm"   ....."I have to go to the bathroom now"...

If you can just stop allowing his words/actions to penetrate you emotionally.....and cause hurt.....you will start to feel a whole lot better.  Just think.....without moving a finger!!!

That's why it's simple.  But......it's also a kind of new habit to form.  Your probably used to paying attention to his stupid insults/put downs/whatnot.  You can decide not to do that any more and then work at letting it all wash over...like water off a duck (some cute line I didn't coin).

What do you think Evelyn?  Willing to give it a go?

What he says is.....nothing.  Just wind.  It's goobledeegobble.  Nonsense.

((((((((another big hug)))))))))

Sela

[mum]

evelyn. I have heard all of this before...from myself. There's a lot of great advice here. I would add my voice to simply say:
you are worth more than this.
You know that. Now keep telling yourself that, please.

You do not need all those abuses (yes, I said abuse!) as reasons to leave this man and claim your life back. I waited 13 years in such a marriage until my exN had the "final" extramarital affair. For some reason (or popular opinions) I felt I needed recurring infedility to prove I had given it a good try, but even without the affairs, the man berated, controlled and abused me in all of the ways you describe. My greatest fantasy was that he would die when he was off travelling somewhere and I could be free.  Now that is NOT the way a person  should feel about their spouse, is it?

Leaving my abuser was the scariest and bravest thing I ever did. Not that I am rid of the guy, as I share children with him (it stinks, but I am glad I didn't let that stop me), BUT I don't have to sleep with him or call him my spouse....and that is worth it.

The only reason you need to claim your power and your love for yourself back is that YOU DESERVE IT.
Your children deserve to see what real love is, even if it is the love you have for yourself and them, minus any man. Your children will grow up and leave home. Where will you be?

This will sound harsh, but: GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT.

People  survive this, they really do. Picture your life as you WANT it....feel what it's like...now keep that vision strong as you move toward it.

[Brigid]

Evelyn,
I'm very sorry for your situation.  You most certainly are being emotionally abused and secondarily, so are your children.  I echo what all the others have said, but I would very strongly urge you to seek counseling for yourself.  Often that will give you the strength and determination necessary to finally see and understand the abuse and no longer be willing to live with it.  It will also help greatly with the transitional times and explaining it all to your children.

I know I am putting the cart before the horse here, but when the time is right, you should also consult a very good divorce attorney.  If you have a spouse who is controlling monetarily, you will need good counsel to be sure that you and your children are well provided for. 

As someone who has been through it all and now on the other side and in a very happy and loving relationship, I can attest to surviving and ultimately thriving from the demise of my marriage.  As many people told me, but I had a hard time believing at the time, there is life after divorce and it can be very sweet.

Blessings,

Brigid

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi Evelyn and welcome to the board...

I can only echo what everyone else has said here.  This place is a fantastic place for validating what you feel, and finding answers and I don't know a more supporting place on the net.

All I would suggest is keep talking, keep posting.  I feel it's coming to a time where that confident and bubbly girl shall return.... she's still in there, but just squashed somewhere where no one can see her.  Also a couple of questions to think about... Why are you with your H?  and what does your H contribute to helping you grow as a person?

Take care

H&H xx

[Plucky]

Hi Evelyn,
Everything you wrote is so familiar to me.  I can't add anything to the good advice already posted, except this.  Keep a journal, maybe just your posts here, but write down what goes on in your household day to day.  Don't flog yourself about doing it every single night.  But I know that sometimes, it is hard to argue back with someone like your husband.  It is hard to resist when you are so depleted from all the ongoing onslaught.  It is hard not to believe at least some of what he says.   Reading the outrageous things that have gone on can give you strength.  Once they are written down, it is as if they happened to someone else.  And then you can be more objective and see how bad it is.

If your husband is saying you can't afford 2 households, then affording it is his problem, not yours.  Maybe you can't afford his hobbies or something, or his habits.  That is not your problem.  Do what is right and the rest will fall into place.   Don't let him bully you financially also.

Strength and good luck.
Plucky

[bean]

Know what you know Evelyn.  If it feels bad, it is.  And if you forget, read this:

From the St. Jude House's website..

WHAT IS VERBAL ABUSE?
Can you identify with the following:
Name calling
The game of one upmanship
Feeling defeated
Being put down
Always being topped
Countering . . . but you did . . .
Being manipulated
Being criticized
Hard selling - having your spouse try and convince you that you are wrong
Being intimidated
Crazy-making---having your spouse make you feel crazy, you’re the one with the problem
Feeling hostile aggression from your spouse
Having your feelings invalidated
Observing your spouse misuse power
Having your perspective undermined and discounted
The partner of a Verbal Abuser may experience:
A distrust of her spontaneity
A loss of enthusiasm
A prepared, on-guard state
An uncertainty about how she is coming across
A concern that something is wrong with her
An inclination to soul searching and reviewing incidents with the hope of determining what went wrong
A loss of self-confidence
A growing self-doubt
An internalized "critical voice"
A concern that she isn’t happier and ought to be
An anxiety or fear of being crazy
A sense that time is passing and she is missing something
A desire not to be the way she is - "too sensitive", etc.
A hesitancy to accept her perceptions
A desire to escape or run away
A belief that what she does best may be what she does worst
A tendency to live in the future - "Everything will be great when/after", etc.
A distrust of future relationships

[helena]

Hello Evelyn
I am experiencing somehow the same thing with my boyfriend since 5 years. He has been married before but he still tells his ex wife personal things about me and my family. For instance I have assurance for our now 2 months old daughter I paied 950 crowns and I received a letter that they didn't know if I was insured or not because they didn't have my personal number. But I received another letter from them only fourteen days ago saying that I could reassure my baby. His ex works with insurances. I don't like his family and he makes all people come against me. He is really mean to me and is lying and manipulative. He only controles me because he wants to own me he doesn't love me.I have tried to escape him but he made me pregnant. Now I have a wonderful daughter but he has a son from his former marriage every second weekend. During the weeks he is sometimes with me but he never buys me any food I am breast-feeding my daughter and I love her very much. WHen he comes to see me. He only wants to have sex and he eats my food he has never bought any dypers or anything to help me with our daughter. it's my parents who helps me alittle. Now I have also understood that he talks badly about me to others. I think I will stop talking to him. Wehave never dones anything outside the house for 5 years. He is embarrassed for me and I am the one who is much more goodlooking than him. He is short darkhaired and ugly no money, he is a student. Now I phoned him and he admitted that he has backtalked me to his ex who is an ancient stripper on Hawaii she also abandonned two children to follow him. He sais that I am an announcer and during all of our relationship when we lived together I paied half of the bills and I have also checked that he can park anywhere in this country without having to pay any bills- I also paied a bmw for him which he is paying back to me every month butr the lone is on me. He also have furniture which are mine but I have claimed that I want them back. I feel that I have to leave him beause he is too mean to me. Is there anyway he can admit that he is sick. I had a friend warning me about him saying that he will let mehave all the problems and that is something I want to evite. I want him to have all the problems.
someone who is angry     

[LostSurvivor]

Hello Evelyn:

I feel like we are in very similar situations at this moment. I recognized my spouse in your description, and my daughter just declared that dad was obsessive compulsive after learning about it in health class. He latest thing is ranting about finances, although there is no reason; he just loves to hear himself. He has no hobbies, interests or friendships and is lazy about maintaining the house, and his appearnance, for that matter. The only thing he does is his job (which he doesn't work very hard at). For doing only one thing in life, he believes that he is special and exceptional and can act superior around us because of that (I am currently finishing school, with only a few weeks left, but plan to be employed again soon).

I will leave him, eventually. I am currently struggling with planning and day to day coping. One tactic that I read in the previous posts is working very well for me in gaining strength. It is to use a lot of vague, detached, disinterested responses to whatever he is saying such as  "Um........"   "ah..."  "Hmmmmms........" followed by leaving the room as soon as possible (although I do make it clear that there is a reason for walking out on him, however small, like getting that load of laundry out of the dryer). If we have to be in the same room, I make myself appear unusually busy and completely absorbed in whatever I am doing, like cleaning the bird cage. I find that this reduces the talking that he does, which means less verbal abuse, which translates to increased sanity so I can better plan what to do.

In the beginning this was very hard, but it's getting easier. Sometimes I think that there is no progress, but the fact that I can get my thoughts together enough to post sometimes means that it is working. Like I said earlier, I do think that I will eventually be able to leave, but it will take some more time. I wish you the best in your situation, and urge that you persist. There's lots of good advice here. Lost

[mum]

Hello, lost. Consider adding this to your responses to your ex (anything helps, right?) I learned this from a wise person on this board.
Simply say " I have nothing to say". They HATE that, but it's truthful and never anything to feel bad about (although feeling bad is how he wants you).
Expect a bit of wrath, as you are removing N supply. Know what it is, and don't get sucked back in.
Hang tough....you will find a way to freedom....sending love and light.