Emotional Vampires

[solayads]

Hello Everyone:

Came across an interesting book entitled " Emotional Vampires: Dealing with People Who Drain You Dry".  (by Albert J. Bernstein) 

In hindsight. when I consider the serious trouble that I had recently with two Narcissistic individuals, I see from the information contained in this book, that I missed so many warning signs.

The following personality disorders (as many of us have already come into contact with) were characterized as people who are Emotional Vampires:

-the Antisocial Types (Lovable Rogues)
-the Histrionic Types:  (Show Business, theatrical vampires)
-the Narcissistic Types: (Big Egos: Small Everywhere Else)
-the Obsessive-Compulsive Types: (Too Much of a Good Thing)
-the Paranoid Types: (Seeing Things That Others Can't)

I'm have not completed the book yet;  but the author provides very clear, concise descriptions from the start, of how the different "vampires"  listed above use the same hypnotic techniques to draw their victims in.  He explains how all of the illnesses listed above also parallel each other in many ways.

Interestingly, the danger signs of "hypnosis" by these Emotional Vampires are easier to spot in the responses of the subject (you and I) than in the actions of the hypnotist.  Here is what to look for to avoid getting taken in:

Deviating from Standard Procedure
Be careful if you find yourself veering sharply from your usual way of doing things, especially in response to a person you don't know very well.  Stop right then and ask yourself - why.  Listen very closely to your answer.

Thinking in Superlatives
Distorted perceptions usually involve superlatives.  If you find yourself thinking that someone is radically different from other, people, quickly ask yourself - why.  Remember, worst and most annoying are superlatives also.

Instant Rapport
Getting to know and appreciate another person involves time and effort.  Be careful when rapport seems to be developing too quickly -- no matter how good the process feels.  Instant understanding is usually the result of someone recognizing how you would really like to be seen and pretending to see you that way.

Seeing the Person or Situation as Special
Defining an interaction as a special case that doesn't follow the normal rules is a clear sign that an Emotional Vampire is turning on the predatory charm.  Emotional vampires excel at getting you to notice them, not what they are doing.  Pay attention!

Lack of Concern with Objective Information
The two most important sources of objective information about another person are the details of that person's history and the opinions of other people.  If for some reason you find yourself avoiding those sources, or thnking that they don't apply --  watch out.

Confusion
Hazy understanding of the reasons for your own reactions, coupled with unusual certainty, is a pretty clear sign that somebody has been messing with your mind. 


If you discover that you have been hypnotized, forget trying to convince Emotional Vampires that they were not playing straight with you.  They will laugh and recite back your conversations chapter and verse to show that they made no promises or, if they did, how it was somebody else's fault that they broke them.  Just don't let them take any more from you.

When Emotional Vampires get caught, they start throwing out alternate realities (lying).  Since these folks cannot stand the daylight,  rip open the curtains and let the daylight in.  Don't try to hide the fact that you were hypnotized/fooled.

Let me know your thoughts on this information.


Solayads

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Solayads

"Emotional Vampires"... that is two interesting words.  I like the way they look at it though... to let in the daylight, I can really relate to that because that is how it feels for me.

I do feel confused about the red flags though.  I understand that to look at your own responses is a good way to check how you feel if you like... check that you are happy with the interaction with the other person.  The thing that confuses me is when do you decide they are red flags?  When we first meet someone our "first impressions" of them are usually inaccurate... because we all project the self we would like people to see, not who we are.

H&H xx

[Marta]

Solayads, excellent! Especially the part about not trying to convince them, and their throwing ut alternative realities.

[tejaspear]

I don't know, H&H. I have found first impressions to be dead-on. My problem is that I will see people for just how they are, and then there is a part of me that says, "Oh, just give this person a chance. Don't be too judgmental." 

This happened with the last N I got emotionally involved with -- and also with the ex-b/f who is so emotionally dependent on his N ex-wife.

With the N, I noticed how egoistic and "haughty" he was. Had I truly trusted my instincts I would have let our first meeting be our last.

With the ex-b/f who is still emotionally entangled with his N ex-wife, I perceived at first meeting that he seemed to have little to offer (as if lacking in personal substantive motivation for anything), and morose and clingy. He acted like a hound dog, all sad that I was leaving after a couple of hours -- though it was our first meeting ever. I "dumped" him immediately after that, but then thought, "Oh, I should give him a chance."

I have this constant argument between in instincts from first impressions, which could be viewed as "cold," and the "wanna be fair" side of me that lays a guilt trip on me, saying I am being too closed, harsh or cold.

I'm glad we're talking about this. I definitely need to start honoring my own very strong first impressions without apologizing myself out of it...! 

[mum]

WOW. That list of "types" had both my ex's on it. Jeeesh. A friend was reading this book, but I hadn't had a chance to discuss it with her yet. Thanks for the synopsis.
Red flags? Everywhere, with both these guys. Denying myself and my gut? All the time......until I woke up and decided to love myself instead.

[Hopalong]

Teja, you been in my head?
That was my EXACT pattern for 20+ years with men.

A year ago I ended my last Nbf relationship. He was overwhelmingly haughty, but swarmed me with instant fusion on our first date...all those flags. Silly beagle, I walked right into it, but I look back and truly do believe he was my LAST N. Or last deeply distubed man, at any rate.

This has been exciting and I want to share it: in the last month I have said NO after two first dates. The first guy was pompous, curt to a very sweet waitress (she was invisible), and presented himself as a victim. I knew I didnt want another date. He emailed asking for another and I replied very courteously that I had enjoyed meeting him (it's true, he was interesting) and it was a pleasant lunch, but I honestly didn't feel that sense of "fit" for me. But I thanked him sincerely for driving to meet me, wished him a peaceful winter, beautiful spring, etc. (I was kind and gentle, iow.) He wrote back a BLAST of accusation, blaming, accusation. Jekyll and Hyde. Saved myself a whole bad relationship! I held firm and that was that.

Same thing, much shorter, with another man. He took me for tea. First thing he talked about was how he wants babies (he's 59 and said there was nothing inappropriate about that at all, he just hadn't found an interested 35 y/o. And how he hates and was victimized by his Ex.) I decided right away. So he called a few weeks later asking me to do something and I said no, just too busy to schedule anything at all.

I can't believe it. It really did feel all right. I figure I'm saving them some anguish too so in a way it's probably a kind thing. They were both pissed, but I really feel for the first time in my life I'm catching on to this thing... I really am not hostile. But I'm catching on that just because a man wants something, I don't have to go against my instincts to please him. It has to be reciprocal or I don't want any part of it.

Hopalong

[write]

I've totally given up with 'trusting my first impression'- I don't listen to it anyway, and often the very things I have keyed into as attractive are already warnings ( eg. I love very talented, intelligent men...but I also know how often that comes at an unbalanced price )

If you discover that you have been hypnotized, forget trying to convince Emotional Vampires that they were not playing straight with you.  They will laugh and recite back your conversations chapter and verse to show that they made no promises or, if they did, how it was somebody else's fault that they broke them.  Just don't let them take any more from you.

This is perfectly true.
One of the hardest things about having thought you were in a relationship then found you just existed as one of the props to someone's acting out is that it's impossible to challenge them, to salvage anything, to redress the imbalance, to recover your sense of self ( for a while )

[tejaspear]

I don't remember who said it, but someone I respected once said, "People will always tell you who they are, if you will just listen." I've often been amazed at the things people have told me about themselves -- only to respond, either inwardly or outwardly, with disbelief. 'Oh, you're not that bad," or (inside saying to myself), "S/he's just really modest and self-demeaning and doesn't mean a word of it." Only to look back later (and wiser) and find out they were just what they said they were.

Of course, more often it is the case that people don't come right out and say it verbally, but they will show it in some way.

For instance, this N man I met a year ago (and soon became quite infatuated with) was always talking about all the horrible women he had been with in his past. Then I noticed that, except for one notable exception -- the woman he was hoping to snare -- he had terrible, terrible things to say about EVERYONE in his life, both present and past. One of the reasons I feel I want to cut this person out of my life pretty much totally is that I cannot help but know he talks the same way about me to others. He "told" me that he does by doing it to everyone else.

And sometimes when a new person in my life is always saying poor things about themselves, my instinct to nurture and mother them comes out so much that I am virtually ignoring everything he is telling me about himself, and inwardly or outwardly saying, "Oh, it's going to be all right. You're better than that. You are too hard on yourself." I think it's good to be supporting and nurturing to friends and lovers, but when a relationship is new a little bit goes a long way. I need to spend a whole lot more time listening and a whole lot less time responding, if you know what I mean.

After the dramas of my last couple of relationships (and most of them all together), I am now really looking FORWARD to "taking it slow" and just really getting to know a person before taking a stance outwardly or inwardly. I'm looking forward to slow. Whew. That's a quantum leap for me, I'll tell ya!

[Hopalong]

I am glad we're talking about first impressions and trusting intuition and self-protection and the goodness of turning away from the negative.

Here's a little current test case I'd love input on. An Internet fellow has expressed interest, I haven't responded yet. His profile indicates nothing weird. His photo shows an attractive man. However, I noticed only a trace of humor in his writing, and his face was completely unsmiling. Almost to the point of oddness...because most people soften their expression in some way when a photo's being taken. At the same time, he's quite handsome.

Yet...we have values (political) in common and he lives near enough that I could meet him quite easily.

Here's my question: do y'all think I'm reading something real, that means we'd be incompatible? Or could there be some other reason a person would post such an empty-looking photo? (He did mention that he dresses just a hair better than his students...so appearances seem not important to him. And in a way I do like that in a person, I get deeply tired of people's focus on appearances. I'm not concerned about wardrobe, I'm just wondering if I'm reading his face right...)

Anyway, just a sort of rambling wondering. In the interests of practice, I suppose I could meet him for coffee and just pay the sort of close attention Teja's talking about. I think that's valuable.

Hopalong

[tejaspear]

Hi Hoppy,

Sure, it's worth giving him a chance for coffee. A lot of people are very nervous in front of a camera and really don't have the expressions on their faces they would have in real life. Same thing with writing profiles -- nerves could cause the writing to be devoid of humor (or even just the mood he was in at the time he wrote it).  Let us know how it goes!

I just talked on the phone to my new interest for the first time this evening. He sounds very nice, and I enjoyed the conversation. We both ended up telling stories about things that have happened in our lives, and it was comfortable and interesting. We have a "date" to talk again in a few days.

Cheers,
TP

[Marta]

I don't think that the list posted is talking about first impressions, but rather this nagging feeling that we feel in the pit of our stomach that something is wrong with this person or situation, without being able to pin point why. Like how would I ever explain to the world that the mom who spent so much money on my education is not loving in worldly terms?

Scott Peck really disucsses this issue beautifully. To quote him, albeit from my memory, he says that one of the first things evil inspires in normal human beings is confusion. Usually the "good acts" are purposely engineered to create confusion about judgment of bad ones. He too suggests that we trust this persistent feeling of confusion as a red flag, and I think he is spot on.

[tejaspear]

That's a good point, Marta!   

[Hopalong]

Marta,,
That is spot on. My exNbf was very confusing. This guy is true NPD I think.
Anyway, I remember when he casually dropped a mention of a charity he participated in, I felt a sense of shock. In my gut, it was inconsistent with who I experienced him to be...core self-absorbed. But at the time I fell all over him being delighted and approving. In hindsight I realize he picked the one charity (shopping for food for the needy with a group of wealthy high status other businessmen) that would be about impression-polishing.

Confuuuuuusing.

Still, I want to give him credit for the impulse. It's just...icky....when helping comes through the Nfilter.

Hopalong

[tejaspear]

A common theme among several N's I have known is a strong "spiritual identity." One helps homeless a lot, but in time what I saw was happening was that he has used them for Narcissistic Supply, putting himself in a role as saviour (and he really does seem to have megalomania). Another changed her name to indicate her own spiritual identity and does healing work (Red Hawk's ex) and has a whole "spiritual rap" while continuing in her blatantly destructive and narcissistic interrelations with others. My own N mother, after abandoning me and my brother, became a social worker. (I always felt the irony there bitterly -- that she was so proud of helping others while ignoring her own children, etc.)

All of them have done some good works, but when you look at the interpersonal relationships outside that, there has been so much destruction...     It is really strange to me, this thing of loving "universally" while being so destructive personally. I wonder if John Lennon was like that too? He did so much that inspired me in his songs, yet he abandoned his own son Julian so coldly, totally cutting him off when he divorced his wife. My N mother abandoned her children, RH's N ex abandoned her children too. Yet these same people have a very strong spiritual identity. My N mother is very proud of all the times she has prayed for me when she wasn't there for me. (She converted to Catholicism after abandoning us.)

It's one thing I didn't really see in Vaknin's book -- about the N folks with this spiritual thing they have going. I'm surprised by that. Anyone know any books that address this? I find it very confusing -- but hopeful. It is almost as if the "good" in the person finds an outlet that is just not possible through personal relationships, and some good is done for those they don't get involved with personally... Any thoughts?

[Hopalong]

Hmmm. Last night I watched a 2-hour program on Eleanor Roosevelt.
Bottom line, this women stirred up more social justice in one lifetime that almost anybody other than Gandhi or MLKingJr.

However...her own children felt neglected and bitter because their mother's life was so swarming with public Good Works, yet she didn't connect with them, make them feel important or central.

Yet again...Eleanor Roosevelt is responsible for the United Nations' Declaration of Human Rights, which has had a huge impact on millions of lives.

So was she an N? Dunno.

Maybe if the good work happens, even if there are N motivations on the part of the doers, or some of the doers...maybe in the big picture, it doesn't matter.

We need the good works more than we need to judge the doers. Let the good works pile up and don't worry about who's taking credit for them.

But personally, it does grate to see Ns use it for Supply. But maybe if the hungry get fed by an N, what matters more is the full belly.

I don't know, really. But the Roosevelt story really was amazing. Would we have preferred she lived a smaller life and had happy voice-full kids? How do we weight that against the Declaration?

Hopalong