Author Topic: Ns and lying  (Read 6211 times)

solayads

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2006, 07:15:13 PM »
Hello Everyone   :D

Great post!!  May I add that N's do get a "kick" out of lying.  I'm convinced that they enjoy watching the reaction and facial expressions of the person they are lying to.  I recall how their eyes would "dance" at the obvious look of disbelief or shock on my face.  I couldn't pinpoint what was eminating from them......I can only describe it as "laughter in their eyes", but in a mean way?

Here's another twist to their lying skills:  They are selective about what they tell you.  So in their sick minds, they are just withholding some information.......yeah, setting you up for a fall.  This is where their power play comes in.  It is their way of controlling what they feel you need to know at any given time........it's like they are spoon-feeding you bits and pieces of truth........meanwhile not providing you with pertinent information because then you might get too proactive...

These folks spend their whole life practicing their one-upmanship!


Solayads

seasons

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2006, 10:12:23 PM »
Hi Marta, Great post.

1. Have you ever known an N who did not lie?

    I thought one of my sister N's didn't but now thinking, she plays games by not responding to a question, she pretends she is     proud of such and such a person and I know it's a LIE. Thats her new game face, she speaks about people with such pity. It's a crock, I wish she were that genuine and kind hearted. She has SELECTIVE memory down to a T.
 
2. What are some of the worst lies your Ns have told? Why do you think they did it?

   One sister told me I put liquor in her water bottle while driving home she took a sip and choked after leaving  a christening party at my home. Sister N doesn't remember which daughter, first, second or third. How could you forget?
  Didn't see me do it. Yet, has the audacity to tell me I'm guilty of such an act and continues to says she knows I did or maybe my husband, she added that after I swore on my parents grave I never did such a thing. Still she  is laughing at me, continues on how she tells this story to everyone. and this was said about me for over 15 years yet she never told me the STORY. Kinda Odd?? and says everone gets a big laugh out of it and it was just something I did to be funny and waved her hand at me like I was making a big deal out of nothing, As I sat in shock, that she would even start such an ugly rumor, broke my heart that she was trying to tinge such a blessed day for me. She looked right into my eyes with a smirk, enjoying the pain she saw back. What was the most interesting is that we went to a T together after being apart for almost 10 years. At those appointments I was brutally honest and she said she was sorry for all she had done to hurt me, she cried and said I don't know why things came out that way, very hurtful comments my whole life, she didn't understand why she did it also because she wanted to have a relationship with me and missed me, funny she never mentioned this story then. Hmmmmm Since that time I see her alone about twice a year. I don't trust
her, she always goes strait to the heart and has great aim.
Why, to make me feel dirty, less than, defenseless and gives her POWER over me. Just plain sick!

Sister #2 Lies everyday of her life. The worst lie, she says she has two cancers. I don't understand this, I've been with her to almost all of her oncologist appointments and he has never mentioned two cancers. I know she had a spot on her lung, but where and what kind is the other cancer? She says she doesn't remember the name? Isn't one enough? She actually has to top her cancer with another cancer that doesn't exist.
She lies about medical conditions all the time. If I didn't go with her, wait while she was being operated on, be with her while she had chemo and preventive head radiation. I wouldn't of believed her. Now isn't the saddest thing a sister can say about another sister.
She also I believe lied about know her husband raped her kids. She saw him laying nude by their bedrooms. I think that is a red flag, rather thats a lie or denial I'm not sure. I guess I would hope the second of the two.

Why, always for sympathy- equals much attention and money.

This is hard to think about. Hugs to all........seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

solayads

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2006, 03:07:42 AM »
Hello Seasons:

Your post brought back some painful memories.  My former N friends would always make me the center of their jokes when other people were around.  They would make jokes about the way I spoke.....they felt that I spoke too "proper".  They would joke about the way I enunciated my words, the fact that I had friends from different cultures.  I was surprised at how xenophobic they were when they professed to love all people.  Walking contradictions they were.......

Something that really stung me, which I found out much later was that at my father's funeral, just before the service started, the head guru was whispering to his members about how "old" my siblings looked.  You see, for the most part, my siblings have 15 or more years on me.  I am the youngest in my family.  But it was just so unkind for him to walk around stirring up things at a funeral.  Meanwhile, his wife never showed up.   I think they were upset that the attention was focused on my family and not them?  Also, he was not one of the people who was officiating at the funeral.  I had friends of my family conduct the service because they knew my family for many years.

The lengths that N's go to to secure attention for themselves.  They get downright dirty about doing it, too.  It seems that the more controversial the circumstances are, they more warped they become.  And once they cross over certain boundaries which deem their actions as unacceptable, they suddenly "forget" the details of what happened.  He had said something later to the effect "If I'm not in charge, I cause trouble".   I should have taken his words more seriously.

These are just some of the memories that I have to put behind me because it hurts to think about it.

Hopalong

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2006, 04:55:06 AM »
Quote
And once they cross over certain boundaries which deem their actions as unacceptable, they suddenly "forget" the details of what happened.

Exactly. I can relate to this, Solyads. Both NMom and NBro "forget" things that to me feel like screams of pain: my grandfather's abuse of her sisters, my brother's of me... NMom has always tried to "correct" my memories. Back when I still talked to her about my childhood, she would tell me what I experienced was not what I experienced. She had a great need for me to echo her version of reality. (In fairness, when I would sit down and tell her about something that had happened, she'd listen. But a week, a month later...she would rake that painful spot in a way that made me feel voiceless.

I think a caste system promotes so much social competitivenss (who knows, maybe N-ness too). Just like the history of slavery promotes so much horrible racial tension in the U.S. Interesting that the Nguru at your Dad's funeral was focused on appearances--who's young or old-looking--at a time when you'd think one might be tuned into their more spiritual side. No wonder that hurt. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

seasons

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2006, 08:02:54 AM »
H&H Quote;
Bio dad... the worst lie is him twisting reality.  When he threw me out of home at 17, his exact words were "Get out, go anywhere, I don't care".
When I said about him throwing me out, he said "I didn't throw you out... I sent you back to live with your mother because I was understandably inconsolable and asked you to get my tea for the first time, and you could only be bothered to make me beans on toast"


H&H,
That is so cruel. I can't comprehend treating your child this way. I can only imagine your pain, especially not being heard. I
hear you load and clear. I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm speechless.......((((hugs))) seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

seasons

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2006, 08:10:53 AM »
Jacmac;quote
An ex N told me his wife, (living with him and his four kids ) was DEAD!!!   I don't think you can beat that

Unbelievable is what comes to mind, yet knowing N's it's the last word I think of, incredible!

solayads:quote
These are just some of the memories that I have to put behind me because it hurts to think about it.

I understand, I'm sorry. seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

jordanspeeps

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2006, 09:47:21 AM »
hey guys,

From what I've noticed, lying solves many purposes to the malignant N. And the variety of lie is not always the obvious, glaring, one.  Sometimes it is a reconfigured version of the truth, or maybe the mere "silent treatment," which in it's own way can be a lie if one's behavior is denying what must be true.    Another of my "personal favorites" is feigning boredom, to me another version of lying because you get the rage and deniability in a nice, annoying little package of nothing. Gee, thanks, I think I'd rather go home and polish some silver, or paint the outhouse, or transcribe the Dead Sea Scrolls, anything to get away from the "bored" N.  It's so fricking oppressive and exhausting.

Lies are also extremely handy to N's for the purposes of projection and character assassination, two major tools in the Ns toolkit.
I can find out all the truth I want to from my Nparents, Nsister, Nsister-and-law by listening to who they are projecting about.  If mom is saying, "Yeah, that so and so, all she wants is credit for all my ideas!," I know that it is she who is trying to hi-jack the "credit" for something that poor so and so conceptualized.  

When it comes to character assassination, no suprise here, my Ns will go to any length to protect their own sick, perverted versions of the truth.  Most recently, my sister-in-law, in order to screw with my H's head, is on a campaign to convince my H that their father, (whose known to have shown intense favourtism towards the sister), is homosexual and she's stark raving upset about it.  She's doing the double-duty of toying with my H's emotions and putting things out there that would mortify her father. (BTW, H consistently hold's that their father's sex life is his own business, and that she shouldn't be sooo upset about it, especially since they're now all grown and on their own).  When you tell her things like this, she throws tantrums and feels entitled to her father's complete honesty and devotion, despite the fact that she has moved 900 miles away from him.  My sister-in-law uses rampant accusations and lies to incense others. The only way to diffuse her in an argument, she LOVES to argue, is to just state, "now I know you're lying!" with a smile when she's right in the middle of her extreme exaggerations.  Of course, she immediately goes into damage control and cuts a few jokes to lighten the mood, but she's coming for you later, you better believe it.

Now my father, the introverted variety, a preacher for 35 years, would NEVER be caught lying.  And he is whom I fear the most.  My mother and SIL, I can easily figure out, they give everything away with their outrageous behavior.  But my Dad, he's so conniving and quietly evasive, that I can't even believe things I am told about him.  I have been trying to trace our family's geneaology but I have no idea of what my paternal grandfather's name was nor in what city my father was born, or anything about my father's past prior to his meeting my mom.  I mean really, my father could be an escape murder convict for all I know.   He has these two huge scars on his arms I later found out are the 1970s approach to tatoo removal.  "What were they Dad?" I would ask.  He would act offended and change the subject or simply ignore me and exit stage left.  He seems like a passionate minister, he adopts emotionally damaged dogs, he gives homeless people rides to church.  But he empolys ignore-ance and avoidance to stay out of serious trouble while wreaking daily emotionally havoc on the hapless victims at church and at work.
All the other characteristics of introverted NPD are there; using larger icons and an inflated superego to opress those around him, physcial vanity, past upheavals, etc. are there but he doesn't really outright lie or do other gregarious, prove-able characteristics generally associated with NPD. Just as dangerous, IMO, if not more.

tiffany


mum

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2006, 07:33:31 PM »
Well, M. Scott Peck's book is called : People of the Lie" for a good reason. Lying to themselves, to the world IS WHO THEY ARE.
My exN used to regularly insist upon having done something or another with me....that I know damn well we did not do and NEVER LET IT GO until I gave up and said "ok fine, have it your way" or I was in tears and then he would call me a baby and a wimp. What a great guy!!  So I guess that would be just lying for the hell of it, for cruel jollies, right?

And Jordanspeeps I think you covered so many I forgot about:

the feining boredom: My exN would act "bored" and haughtily uninterested/cocky during discussions with my OBGYN and then did that same thing during the delivery of both my children!  Like if he got excited or genuinely interested it wouldn't be cool somehow.  GRRRRRR all over again.

And character assasination: well, my ex and his lawyer are all over that one, in each and everything they file in court (and they file anything and everything).  It's pretty hard to walk away from that fight, as he is OUTRAGEOUS in his attacks. 
("do not engage, do not engage, do not engage"......)

solayads

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2006, 08:13:54 PM »
You know what is really strange to me?  My former N-Pastor attempts to contact me every few weeks.  In his case, he goes back and forth between "you were/were not a great member".  Yet this is the same individual who tells me how much he needs help with his church administration.  It is on these occasions that I was so "wonderful" as a member.  Now mind you, he and his wife "dangled" the admin job over my head for two years.  I guess they wanted me to grovel for it?  I did not care whether I worked in the administration office or not.   But there were many times when I would run errand after errand after errand......and they would never even say "Thank you".

I would lose sleep running around town for these people while they would talk and laugh about me and never offer a red dime for gas money.  They would tell me that they could not afford to pay me a salary.  Meanwhile, they always had another luxury car, expensive clothing, expensive jewelry.

I mean.....who are they kidding?

One minnute he admits how wrong they both were for taking me for granted......then the next minute, he's blaming me.

There was so much "stealth" lying going on there! 

One of my biggest blunders was getting mixed up with them.  And my heart grows colder each day I'm away from the whole mess.

solayads

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2006, 08:34:06 PM »
I'm sorry folks if I'm hogging the board.....I just feel a strong need to vent right now.  Gotta share this one with you:

The N-Pastor's wife opens a business in another town.  She gets one of the kleptomaniac members to run her store for her while she and her husband fly up and down the coast for their speaking engagements.  She seems to think that she can run a business without ever being there herself.  Lord help her if she should ever roll up her own sleeves and break a nail.

Now mind you, the person she leaves to run the business was caught stealing on her own job which is why she was fired.  And she has NO management skills whatsoever. 

My fellow board members.....do you see the RED SIGNALS???  I sure do wish I saw them sooner!!!

The contradictions are insane!!!!!  And they have the nerve to talk about being so blessed and prosperous! 

jordanspeeps

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2006, 12:18:38 PM »

Have you ever heard of the expression:  "The biggest trick the devil ever pulled off was convincing us that he/evil didn't even exist."

When I meet extremely devout and religious people (or any other persons extremely/overly devoted to a good cause, i.e. high ranking military and police officers,  top physicians and politicians, judges, etc.), I watch them more closely.  Instead of putting your guard down, you should put it up further.  There is a millinea long history of evil and it's juxtaposition and enmeshment with good.  It's a strategic tactic to "hide in plain view" or to "keep your enemies closer."  What makes a crazy person an N, anyway:  his desire to cover his real self with a false, more impressive, acceptable one.

Let your intuitions guide you.  What is the history with psychopath serial killers like Son of Sam and John Wayne Gasey and BTK and even Scott Peterson?  To their communities, families, and co-workers, they were all upstanding considerate citizens and neighbors. But inside they were arrogant, scathing, savage, Narcissists who planned to terrorize until their dying days.

Tiff.

mum

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2006, 05:29:47 PM »
Have you ever heard of the expression:  "The biggest trick the devil ever pulled off was convincing us that he/evil didn't even exist."
Quote

Is this from the film "the Usual Suspects?"  I think of this quote often. Sooooo true IMO.

Plucky

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2006, 05:52:31 PM »
Quote
When I said about him throwing me out, he said "I didn't throw you out... I sent you back to live with your mother because I was understandably inconsolable and asked you to get my tea for the first time, and you could only be bothered to make me beans on toast"
H&H, this quote probably sticks in your mind for the reason that your biodad, in his sick little mind, still thinks that this, even if it were true, would be a reasonable excuse to throw out your daughter.   Because she did not serve him a proper tea.  As if you are a servant who was dismissed!  Not only was the situation hurtful, whatever the true events were, but the fact that he continues to trot this out as a normal precedent to severing your relationship just trivialises family ties and his connection to you every time you have to hear it or read it.  The fact that it is completely ridiculous makes it all the worse.

Plucky

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2006, 06:58:15 PM »
Quote
When I said about him throwing me out, he said "I didn't throw you out... I sent you back to live with your mother because I was understandably inconsolable and asked you to get my tea for the first time, and you could only be bothered to make me beans on toast"
H&H, this quote probably sticks in your mind for the reason that your biodad, in his sick little mind, still thinks that this, even if it were true, would be a reasonable excuse to throw out your daughter.   Because she did not serve him a proper tea.  As if you are a servant who was dismissed!  Not only was the situation hurtful, whatever the true events were, but the fact that he continues to trot this out as a normal precedent to severing your relationship just trivialises family ties and his connection to you every time you have to hear it or read it.  The fact that it is completely ridiculous makes it all the worse.

Plucky

Thank you Plucky.... and thank you Seasons.

This was one of the more recent things he said, before our wedding, when I was trying to explain that as he had thrown me out of his house, I didn't want him to walk me down the isle.  I couldn't remember what he had said on the day until later, but I always had in my head that he threw me out because his girlfriend left him (she did earlier that day), so when he said I didn't throw you out... I was like, what? Hey?  I don't get this!

It was a few months later when it came back to me what actually happened... the conversation that day went like this when I had got in from work:-

Me:-  Would you like a cup of tea?
Him:- Tea... no, what good will tea do.  You can get me something to eat if you'd like too.
Me:-  Ok, I can russel up some beans on toast (Background is he only has a microwave anyway... doesn't think he needs an oven)
Him:- Whatever... I can't be doing with you here.  Get out, go anywhere, I don't care.
Me (said in a very small voice):-  But I've got nowhere to go, where will I go.
Him:-  Whereever, I don't know.... (and as an afterthought) go back to your mother's

So I think this sticks in my memory because I couldn't remember what had happened and how his version of events was so different to mine.  I also remember feeling so small and lonesome when Mum and him were arguing on the phone and I could hear Mum going "Oh god no, we can't have her back, we can't put up with her, we haven't got the space for her anymore".... but bio dad was adamant I was out of his house there and then.

My H is asleep at the moment.... he's never heard this either. There's always two sides to every story isn't there? and I think that anyone would think I must have done something to deserve this... I must have been a rotten 17 year old. xx
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Hopalong

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Re: Ns and lying
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2006, 10:25:04 PM »
H&H:

Quote
anyone would think I must have done something to deserve this... I must have been a rotten 17 year old

Pfah! Ptooey! Plaugghh! Bleaaahhh! Blecccchhh! Ptoo!!

Spit that thought right out, hon!

Neither of them was one whit capable of nurturing and if they gave out licenses for parenting they way they do for driving a car, your parents would still be on their tricycles. Whining.

You were just as sweet and hopeful a 17 year old as could be. You'd been hurt over and over and YOU DID NOT DESERVE IT.

that 17 y/o deserves a big hug from YOU now...meanwhile here's a starter:

((((((((((((((((17 y/o H&H))))))))))))))))

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."