My sister, the flying monkey...

[Sugarbear]

("flying monkey" is a term from another board I frequent. It means a person that is sent out to do the main narcissist's bidding, either consciously or sub-consciously. It could be a relative, friend or co-worker that tries to get you to "make up" or smooth things over or tells you how you are the wrong one in whatever situation you are currently dealing with... taken from the Wizard of Oz's Wicked Witch's minions!)

So I have made the decision to not contact my N mom and it is going on 3 weeks since I've seen her, and about a week since I've checked in on her by phone.

My sister sends me an email yesterday.

This is it, titled : "A request"

Hey hon, I'm sorry to bother you with this, but I let
Valentine's day sneak up on me, and I had wanted to
send Mom some flowers from Krogers or Wal-mart but
waited too darned late.

I know it's asking a lot, but is there any way you
could please pick up a pretty bouquet for mom, in the
20 dollar range, and I'll send you a check for it?  I
wanted to do something nice for mom cuz you and me
have our wonderful hubbies, and I wanted her to know
she was loved too.  I know you have great taste in
flowers and could find her something pretty for me.

If you could do this, maybe just swing by a Krogers or
Walmart on your way home, and drop it off at Mom's for
me, I'd really appreciate it.

But if you can't, you can't- so if it's just too much
to ask, don't worry about it, but please write me back
and let me know- cuz if you can't I'll just try to
order something to be sent tomorrow.  I just wanted
her to know I was thinking about her today, and am
kicking myself for waiting till the last minute.

Love you and hope you and (my husband) have a wonderful
Valentine's Day, I know you two love each other very
much and I'm so glad you two are happy together.
_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_

Now, this REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. One, she KNOWS that mom and I haven't spoken for a while, and all of the background info on what is going on. Two, she lives several states away, and is trying to make our mother out to be a poor, sick lonely woman who is the wronged one in all of this, even tho my sister has been on the receiving end of our mother's rages and nastiness in the past.

Couple that with the fact that I've been asked to go purchase and DELIVER said flowers for Valentines day. the fact that my sister has never sent anything before to our mother on that day, and that she KNOWS how uncomfortable I am about even being around our mother, and I just have to wonder what in the He!! she was thinking.

There is also the factor that my sister and her family is barely making it above poverty level and she is wanting to blow money on flowers for valentines day for our mother??? That has p!ssed off our mom in the past when my sister has sent flowers for her birthday or such, since she NEVER has money, and mootches off of our father (who is basically supporting her, her child and her pieceofsh!t husband). The waste of money gets her very upset, and sister has been told this in the past...

I love the idea that she points out how "wonderful" her hubby is, considering he is a thief, liar, (both proven and would hold up in a court of law!) and has lost every job he ever got and treats her like a doormat.

So she is either:

A. Trying to get us to talk/make up by making me deliver her flowers.

or

B. Trying to make herself look good, and also bring home how pitiful and lonely our mother is so I magically forget every nasty horrible thing she has ever done in my life and go back to being her slave.

I told her that I was not comfortable with doing that, and that a card or letter or phone call would be more appropriate than sending flowers and reminded her of mother's reaction to that in the past...

She probably will still send them, spend at least $50 she doesn't have, and our mom will end up LLOOOOOOVVVING them since sister is the "golden child" now!

I hate this! I don't want to be drawn back into this mess!!!


 

[Hopalong]

I hate it too. I can so imagine it. This is a classic maneuver of internalized N stuff.
Plus, your story made me understand how in ways my brother functions as NMom's "flying monkey."
Thanks very much for sharing that.

You sister's tone is kind of cloying, imho, and my buttons are pushed vicariously by her treacly depiction of your mother's "plight."

I think you did EXACTLY the right thing. How could there be a perfect way?

Only other thought I had, which may be too drastic depending on how much relationship you want to maintain with your sister...is an unoriginal one: Block Sender?

I think when someone in the family or a close relationship is prone to manipulative manuevers, it's good to cut off their email access to you. Forcing them to at least use the phone or leave you a voicemail I think makes it more difficult for them to manipulate. They have to SPEAK the words, I want from you _____, I am asking you to ________. In some way I think it makes them more accountable. It's harder (not impossible but harder) to manipulate someone face to face, in some cases.

Do you think that's true for you and your sister?

Hops

[Surrounded]

Sugarbear

This flying monkey thing  made me laugh------cause I have one too.  My sis is TOTALLY enjoying pretending to be the angel now I have taken a dive with my N mom. 

All the same crap happening in my camp! 

Only makes me laugh.  Now I just think of her with one of those silly hats on...... and the vest........

Thanks for the new perspective.  I have one of my 5 brothers doing it too.  He is the one calling and calling trying to say "hi" when I know he really wants to give me a bad time about cutting them all off.  I don't hate them.  I just want peace.

Who can deal with these mind games?  Your sister must have thought long and hard to come up with that "innocent" sounding email.  Or does it come naturally to her? 

Just keep talking to us---at least we won't play with your mind.   

Hugs

Surrounded

[mum]

Sugarbear. I am sooo sick of manipulative people I could spit!!
Your sister is exactly what you say she is...and then some. (good name to give her type).
You handled the situation admirably.  I could not think of a better way. Getting into it with her would be futile (as you know and avoided) but telling us here is good, so you can remind yourself that you still KNOW what she is all about.
Her crap is her crap. Her supposed lack of organization (too bad, oh well, hmmmm are all great responses)...her wanting you to "feel a certain way for your mother...oh PLEASE!!!!
She gets to keep her feelings. you are entitled to yours.
(((((((((sugarbear))))))))))

[write]

your sister reminded me of a film where the wife was in a total fantasy about what her husband was really like...but was intent on convincing the rest of the town who saw him as he really is ( no idea of the film, it's b&w )

The good thing about modern communications I think is- they are conveniently far-removed from personal.

It's easy to hit 'delete' and wipe out an email or message, then apologise sweetly later.

I say this in the spirit they are sent/ received- anyone who tries to manipulate you on so many levels should expect a little deviousness/ dissembling in return!

[movinon]

Sugarbear - denail is NOT a river in Egypt.  This is ALL her stuff.  I know it's amazing what some people have the NERVE to ask, but she does have the right to ask for what she wants (we ALL do). 

THere were a couple of people in my life that did the same sort of stuff and they would say, "Can I ask you something?"  My response was, "Sure, you can always ASK"   

That didn't mean I would say yes.  When I did CHOOSE to say no, I tried to make sure I didn't get into the trap of giving excuses b/c

#1 - if you fib, it'll come back and bite you in the butt w/ these people and

#2 - I don't NEED to give an excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NO means NO

Remember, we teach people how to treat us.

Movinon

[write]

I tried to make sure I didn't get into the trap of giving excuses b/c

#1 - if you fib, it'll come back and bite you in the butt w/ these people and

#2 - I don't NEED to give an excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NO means NO

Remember, we teach people how to treat us.

that's interesting, because it is very difficult to teach a psycopath or narcissist or other pd (  and their adherents ) to modify their behaviour.

I have found it to be something I can only invest the time with ex-h because we share a child- and the child motivates him very much.

Over time I've removed everyone from my life who was toxic or manipulative, but until I could get to that point I stopped responding to messages. In fact there was a long period where I stopped using the computer or house phone altogether!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi Sugarbear

I can relate... it's so annoying and sometimes upseting when we get treated like this, but I have to say well done for standing your ground and not giving in.  I think you've done really well... maybe you should buy yourself some flowers? 

Take care

H&H xx

[mum]

NO means NO

I have a friend who has strong N tendencies....at dinner the other night (her birthday... she was drinking) INSISTED I try her fish. I don't like that kind of fish...told her politely: No thank you....I  have enough of my own here, thank you.......No, thanks...
She just wouldnt' take NO for an answer and started putting fish on her fork for me and I said:
"I don't want any F*****ng TROUT!!!" So she puts in on the bread board in front of me, where it sat all dinner long.

So I think you are right....Write....there is no teaching anything to a person with a PD...which I think my friend may have, actually, since this kind of thing happens a lot with her.

[movinon]

Hmmmm,

write - I don't mean for THEM to modify THEIR behavior when I said we teach people how to treat us.

Let me modify that a bit.  After a no, no thank you, f-off!, I think it's important to say, at a later time perhaps, "THERE'S A BIG FRIGGIN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!"

Meaning, addressing the issue and not letting it just go. 

Mum - Why did the fish (for instance) sit on the plate ALL night? I have done this with a friend...  Look her straight in the eye, hold eye contact, wait for a moment or two and say, "Helen, when I told you I didn't want the fish and you kept insisting, I felt_________, and what I want is for you to respect my boundary.  If you cannot to that, I will not be able to have dinner with you anymore.  (If that sounds too harsh, you may add - I love you and I hope you will be able to respect my boundaries."

No offense, but I don't want to be friends with someone who continues to violate my boundaries.

Yes, we might "loose" something (a friendship or closeness), and we get to choose if it's worth it to us.

Even for a BPD or N, they knwo they loose out - it's not about MAKING THEM do anything.  It's about taking care of ourselves. 

Is this making more sense?  I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm "right", I just wanted to better explain myself.

Movinon

[Moira]

Greetings Sugarbear and all!!! A query for Sugarbear! you're NOT my niece's fiance, are you?! Hee hee! My niece's fiance's nickname happens to be same as your handle!!! LOVE the " flying monkey"- too bang on!!!! Funny how as a kid those monkeys scared the bejesus out of me- accurate premonition that I ignore as an adult. Should have paid attention to my intuition, eh?! Anyway....I totally relate to this! I have flocks of flying simians in my family. I like Write's response- No means No. My Nmother used to tell me that "No" was my favorite word since I first learned how to talk. Again- ironic that as an adult, that word hasn't always meant just that for me! As adults- no, actually starts as children when we first learn those social rules, we learn that honesty isn't always a good ting and that word " hurts other people's feelings". I agree with Write that any kind of explanation isn't necessary. Ns will never get it and any response or acknowledgment of their disrespect is only further attention for them. Takes two to play the game and if one of us decides not to play, it's no fun for the N---or the monkey- and they sullenly leave our sandbox and go home!! My monkey sis used to pour me drinks as everyone in my family more than loves their alcohol- esp. my alcoholic Nmother. I am on meds that don't mix with same and am in recovery! No was not even heard! I used to take the drinks and pour them in the nearest plant! Hugs, Moira!

[write]

addressing the issue and not letting it just go. 

this is where I have had a lot of problems- with my father and my h and a few friends/ boyfriends. I always think we're done, it's sorted, we're on the same page, mutual understanding...then we go round and round again, same issues.

Now I walk away- from the relationship where I can, but with my ex and father I want to maintain the better parts, so I have taken to ignoring the rest.

My ex I have a very honest dialogue with, but because of the way he is it's like setting footprints in quicksand!

How honest relationships can really be- now that's something troubling me a little lately, and I'll write more about it later.

Thanks for explaining!