openness/honesty in friendships

[Hopalong]

I will have to join another Church group, but, am a little bit worried how that will look.

Leah, hon, one thing we raised-by-Ns people do is tie ourselves in knots worrying about the remotest possbility of another person having an uncomfortable thought, or a curious thought, or a judgmental thought. And just in case someone MIGHT think something that isn't completely unruffled or peaceful or calm as a deep pool in a sunlit meadow we feel we MUST not do anything to cause even the tiniest ripple or shadow to appear in the perfect, balmy, calm of the world, or we will be AWFUL PEOPLE.

(Never mind that there are hawks, fish, waterbugs, algae, and turtles and that the whole thing is full of currents and life and sediment and activity below the surface.)

So....it sometimes helps if we do not give much information. And it helps a lot if we do not apologise or explain ourselves when there is no crime, no sin, just a choice for our own wellbeing.

Example, to someone you know in the current group, if they ask: "Oh thanks. I enjoyed that group, I'm glad we met. I decided this other group was better for me. Let's have coffee."

When the other persists, but why? "Oh, no big deal. I just like to try different groups. Glad to have found a friend though. When would you like to do coffee?"

When the other persists, gee, but I really liked having you there, we'll miss you. "(Big warm smile.) Well, thanks! Let's not miss each other! Let me know when you're free to grab a cup. Bye now!"

(Sorry, dialogue attack. I never sound like anybody actually would...but it helps me think about people's situations.)

hugs,
Hops

[Leah]

Leah, hon, one thing we raised-by-Ns people do is tie ourselves in knots worrying about the remotest possbility of another person having an uncomfortable thought, or a curious thought, or a judgmental thought. And just in case someone MIGHT think something that isn't completely unruffled or peaceful or calm as a deep pool in a sunlit meadow we feel we MUST not do anything to cause even the tiniest ripple or shadow to appear in the perfect, balmy, calm of the world, or we will be AWFUL PEOPLE.

(Never mind that there are hawks, fish, waterbugs, algae, and turtles and that the whole thing is full of currents and life and sediment and activity below the surface.)

So....it sometimes helps if we do not give much information. And it helps a lot if we do not apologise or explain ourselves when there is no crime, no sin, just a choice for our own wellbeing.

Example, to someone you know in the current group, if they ask: "Oh thanks. I enjoyed that group, I'm glad we met. I decided this other group was better for me. Let's have coffee."

When the other persists, but why? "Oh, no big deal. I just like to try different groups. Glad to have found a friend though. When would you like to do coffee?"

When the other persists, gee, but I really liked having you there, we'll miss you. "(Big warm smile.) Well, thanks! Let's not miss each other! Let me know when you're free to grab a cup. Bye now!"

(Sorry, dialogue attack. I never sound like anybody actually would...but it helps me think about people's situations.)

hugs,
Hops

Thanks so much Hops,

And certainly no dialogue attack at all ......... you did what I needed, as I don't have anyone around me at the moment to enter into dialogue with regarding this.

It has really been a big help to me.

So....it sometimes helps if we do not give much information. And it helps a lot if we do not apologise or explain ourselves when there is no crime, no sin, just a choice for our own wellbeing.
 

That's exactly what I did with her and her husband, and, others whom i have come into contact with, as they ask where are you from dah de dah de dah etc etc.

Felt I had to justify reasons for getting my divorce, my NC with FOO  (got that now Sunny! ... thanks) justify and testify my experiences, whilst shakey and weepy ............... justify my existence and choosing to live here.

Now I see where I have gone wrong.

Still 'too open and honest' ........ what an idiot I am    She has all the juicy information and I feel well and truly stupid ..... again 

Well I have risen from the ashes before, and, I am determined to rise and fly again 

To survive, I know that I really must heed this good sound advice  ........... it sometimes helps if we do not give out too much information. And it helps a lot if we do not apologise or explain ourselves when there is no crime, no sin, just a choice for our own wellbeing

Thank you so much Hops

((((((Leah))))))

ps ... Leah getting the hang of forum writing stuff 

[Dazed1]

Hops:

"Leah, hon, one thing we raised-by-Ns people do is tie ourselves in knots worrying about the remotest possibility of another person having an uncomfortable thought, or a curious thought, or a judgmental thought. And just in case someone MIGHT think something that isn't completely unruffled or peaceful or calm as a deep pool in a sunlit meadow we feel we MUST not do anything to cause even the tiniest ripple or shadow to appear in the perfect, balmy, calm of the world, or we will be AWFUL PEOPLE."

That was pure gold.

The dialog was great.  Kinda like 'Dialogs for raised-by-Ns Dummies".

(((((((((((((((Leah)))))))))))))))
Please do not punish yourself.  Self punishment is part and parcel of the whole raised-by-Ns thing.  You are NOT stupid.  I also self-punish, but I'm learning to self-forgive and then I REALIZE why the hell should I feel stupid?  I made a mistake, but I'm not stupid.  I've gota stop being so hard on myself. I'm harder on myself than I am on other people.  Why can't I treat myself with the same understanding that I extend to others?  Hey, I will!

So, you made a mistake by revealing yourself to the Church Lady.  But, think about how this mistake is actually a blessing because we're discussing it, dissecting it and in the future, I bet you will not expose yourself as much to people who have not yet proved their trustworthiness.

I'm betting that you believed that this lady was trustworthy because she seemed pious.  Well, goes to show ya, Ns can appear to be pious and pillars of the community.  However, since we have been burned by Ns, we now know that we've got to suss out people before we can trust them.

"I am determined to rise and fly again":  You got it Leah!! 

love, dazed

[Leah]

Dazed:  many many thanks for posting the link .... and for your advice and comments re: 'predator'


The Perfect Crime

If you are reading this, the chances are that someone or something has given you a clue that you might find the key to a profound mystery in a mental illness known as Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Maybe it was only yesterday. If so, you are probably still reeling from the discovery that you weren't imagining things, that something is wrong with a certain person in your life, and that your experience with him or her isn't unique.

Maybe all your life they've made you feel like a tethered bird, never allowed to feel good about yourself. Or maybe you have a sense of foreboding that comes through in bad dreams because it seems that this person, for no known reason, is out to get you.

But who would believe it? You yourself can't believe it. You've had to keep pinching yourself, because Why would anyone do that?  Especially this person. And why would he or she do that to you? It defies reason.

Which makes it the perfect crime = the one no one believes. Because it goes against nature. And because it has no possible motive.

Yet, when you think twice, it's stupid to doubt that such things happen. The daily news proves that they do. For we could ask the old Why-would-anyone-do-that? question about every rape, every random murder, every child molestation, every random act of vandalism.

They are abundant proof of the FACT that some people need no motive. They act out of pure malice. They do it just to do it.

In fact, jurisprudence has long recognized the motive of pure malice.

Some people hurt you because hurting others makes them feel good. It makes them feel good in the same way that eating makes a starving person feel good. It makes them feel good in the same way that a narcotic makes a person in pain feel good.

Just as hungry people like eating and just as pained people like taking narcotics, they like hurting you.

They need to hurt you. Just as a hungry person needs food and a person in pain needs a narcotic. That's what you are to them, food, as to a vampire, or a punching bag to transfer their pain to.

For, they are predators.

So, they don't dare feel anything for you. No matter who you are - son, daughter, mother, father, brother, sister, husband, wife, best friend, benefactor, savior - no matter who you are they feel nothing for you.

It's a life or death matter: no predator dares feel anything for their prey; if they did, they couldn't survive, because they couldn't bear to do what they do to their prey.

So, they turn off their sensibilities and make light of it. What they do to you is just nothing…to them.

Why do they target those who least deserve it? Because those who least deserve it are the easiest prey. They are the least suspecting, the most trusting, the most vulnerable. Every predator targets easy prey.

Predators are in a class by themselves among the mentally ill. And they will be the first to tell you so.

What Makes Narcissistics Tick:  http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/npd-blog/2006/11/perfect-crime.html  


Predators are in a class by themselves among the mentally ill. And they will be the first to tell you so ...... well she certainly did that when she told me "I am going to hurt you"

Have read this through twice ....... I realise and accept that my church lady (as I now prefer to call her) was and is a Predator.

Yes, Dazed, I did think that this lady was trustworthy because, yes, she seemed pious.  And i take your advice on board, in future people will need to prove their trustworthiness with me first.

((((((Thank You))))))

Leah

[Leah]

One-to-three          in every 20 people           you meet are malignant narcissists.   

Since the average person has no idea what's really going on in an encounter with a narcissist,  he or she is dead meat.

Narcissists couldn't cause half the pain and suffering they cause if we could recognize the signs and understood what is going on.

http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/npd-blog/2007/01/spotting-narcissists.html 

Predators are only dangerous when they get too close.          In the great majority of cases, we can keep them from getting too close.

If you aren't naive, they're gone, off in search of easy prey.

So, these people would do vastly less harm if everyone were well enough informed to know that there are predators among us and that we therefore must pay attention, notice and heed, signs of bad faith, and mete out trust to others appropriately.

[Dazed1]

Great post Lea.

Think I'll print it and put it on my frig.

dazed