Do you think they love you?

[gratitude28]

No I do not believe they can but i think there are moments when they wish they could

Blue,
I think you are right about this. I think they are puzzled that others have feeling they can't find in themselves. Pretending an emotion just isn't the same, and I think they know that.
 

[switzerland]

no way.
my Nmom never could use those four letter words, or show any signs of affection to anyone.
and Nboyfriends never could say those words either. that is a sure sign of their N.
but, hey, at least, they were honest, which is a big improvement from their habitual lying.

 
switzerland

[Sela]

Hi all:

This is such an interesting and emotional topic imo.  I was thinking about it quite a bit yesterday.

I don't know what anyone else feels inside of them.  I can't tell what they are able to feel or not able to feel.
I can only tell what I feel.

I did not feel loved by those who acted like N's in my life.  I felt possessed and like an object but not loved.

I don't know what they felt about or toward me but what they showed by their behaviour was definitely not love or loving or indicative of love.

That's the best I can do.

  Sela

[Marta]

With my N mother I was under the llusion for as long as I could be that we had a real relationship going. At some point it became obvious that we didn't. I don't exactly remember when or how that watershed moment came about.

After that, it was point of no return. We went through the motions for sometime, but all that really felt just so empty. I don't know when the moment of revelation comes. I guess if someone is not there for you in your worst moments.

Marta

[Portia]

A good test of love?

What’s the most valuable thing you can give someone? Yep, your time.

Well, not just time eh? You can give someone your time if you just want them as your audience!

But if you give them both your time and attention, your interest in them as people in their own right….I think that’s a great expression of love.

My grandfather gave me his time and interest, that’s how come I’m here and not completely nuts. It only takes on person - a teacher, a friend, one compassionate adult - to save a child. That’s love.


Oh Marta. Just seen your post.

I don’t know if you want me to talk to you yet but I want to say I’m sorry – I feel sad – about what you just posted. Like you say - if someone is not there for you in your worst moments – and I agree with that. (((((((((Marta))))))))) I hope you’ll accept these words as having helpful intention, because that’s what I intend. We’re not so different I think.

[mum]

Hmmm, I think about this is reference to my kids and their N dad all the time.

I think he thinks he "loves" them, I think he does what he can to "love" but that his definition of love is soooo very damaged.
I remember thinking that when we divorced 10 years ago. That his model for love was soooo screwed up from his childhood, that his only idea of what love is, came from that unbelievable disfunction. In this way, I really can feel compassion for what he may never know in his life. That said, his lack of really knowing love is NOT my problem to fix. It is unfixable by anyone but him, and he may never choose to do this.

My children do love him....but that is tainted by the WAY he "loves". He controls, and they are afraid. For the times they have fun with him (and granted, it is many), they feel a semblance of love the way they know it is. But it is conditional with him...and it may go away as soon as they don't do what he wants them to.

They know from me, that they dont need to choose that for themselves, and they do make comments like, "dad is always angry" or "you know dad" to explain his angry antics.

All in all, I guess I would say, he doesn't know how to love, or what it really IS or feels like. He only knows this ego level of "power" and has mistaken that for love.

My sister and I were talking about this the other day, that the one thing we will be eternally grateful to our parents for: IS that they taught us how to love.....

[Sugarbear]

No, I don't; I don't think they're capable of it. Everything that is not-N is just a thing, to an N. All of their relationships are I-It.

[Someone upthread asked if we love our own legs... well, yeah... I certainly love mine. They've lifted me up time and again, carried me safely all over the world, driven my cars, danced, jumped for joy, climbed mountains, walked quiet beaches, rushed me into the arms of people I've loved.

Yes, I love them dearly, and I'm grateful to them. My life would have been totally different if they hadn't been part of it, part of me, or if they had worked differently [or not at all] for any reason. I know it, and I thank them.]

That was me.

I think you got what I was trying to say - I mean that a narcissist doesn't generally consider  "legs or arms" feelings, whether they don't want to do what it is you are asking, in other words, they don't separate themself from a body part... they don't see a difference in "You" and your "you-ness" and a hand or leg. This is how my mother sees me - and how many narcissists view those around them - they are a part of themselves and therefore should act exactly as the brain (the narcissist) decrees. You don't "love" your hand because it is such a wonderful, great person and is enriching your life out of it's love for you - it is a tool, a body part. A person in a narcissist's life that breaks with the role assigned to it by the narcissist is like your hand suddenly saying "You know what? I'm tired of doing all of this crap and never getting any thanks or affection or anything so I'm outta here..." and taking off... (like the Evil Dead movie!) So no wonder they react with such anger and shock when we voice our dissatisfaction!

A normal person appreiciates their strong legs, their hands that perform numerous tasks... a narcissist just expects them to do what they have always done and never appreiciates or even acknowledges the efforts...

[Marta]

Sela:
Hi all:

This is such an interesting and emotional topic imo.  I was thinking about it quite a bit yesterday.

I don't know what anyone else feels inside of them.  I can't tell what they are able to feel or not able to feel.
I can only tell what I feel.

I did not feel loved by those who acted like N's in my life.  I felt possessed and like an object but not loved.

I don't know what they felt about or toward me but what they showed by their behaviour was definitely not love or loving or indicative of love.

That's the best I can do.

((((Sela))))))

My Story: I "felt" loved by Ns. Eventually, when I had the courage to follow a relationship to the natural conclusion, the illusions were shattered. It was the fire of my love that kept kindling and rekindling their existence and their emotions.

Then again, when others have truly loved me, I did not hear them; not let them into my life; I only heard the wolves; that was the familiar call. Eventually someone did knock on the door long enough, years in act, and I did open up. That made all the difference. A watershed moment in my life.

Only you can decide which is the case for you.

I will say this. I have tried and tried and tried, so very hard to talk to you, but my words just don't seem to get through to you. I try so hard because you remind me of my elder sister, the one who broke all ties with me several years ago. Because you have given me so much, because you are much, much nicer, so much kinder than my sister had in her to ever be.

Take care Sela. I have been reading your other posts for a while, but there was something about the tone of this post that I had to respond to. As though I can finally see feelings breaking through your voice.

My advice: same as always. Trust in Mother Nature and small, beautiful things you can hold in the palm of your hands without crushing. You have a lot of beauty and dignity in you Sela; so its about time to open the floodgates and let it all out.

Lots of Love, Marta   

[Sela]

Dear (((((((((Marta))))))))):

I don't know but it sure seems/looks like you've decided that Portia is some kind of monster and I'm some sort of saint???  Neither idea is anywhere near accurate, imo.

If you have specifically posted and referred to me here, over and over, trying to talk to me.....I have missed it.  I must be dense because I do not recall that at all lately. 

As though I can finally see feelings breaking through your voice.

I can't see your feelings.  Sorry.
Can/will you finish this sentence for me please Marta?

I feel ....................................................
(as much as you want to share).

I'm very curious to know more about your elder sister, if you feel like sharing that too.

My advice: same as always. Trust in Mother Nature and small, beautiful things you can hold in the palm of your hands without crushing.

I like that.  It's very poetic.  Reminds me of lady bugs and wee butterflies and rose petals and buttercups and tiny pieces of quartz.   Small, natural, lovely things.  Yes.  I can trust to find them over and over.  I can rely on finding them.   I will be careful not to crush them and rejoice in those that cannot be crushed (like the quartz). 

My advice:  Please read the same tone (within reason) into all posts here on this board.  We are all the same.  We are all similar.  There are no enemies here, is what I'm trying to say.

  Sela

[MarisaML]

Hi all:

This is such an interesting and emotional topic imo. I was thinking about it quite a bit yesterday.

I don't know what anyone else feels inside of them. I can't tell what they are able to feel or not able to feel.
I can only tell what I feel.

I did not feel loved by those who acted like N's in my life. I felt possessed and like an object but not loved.

I don't know what they felt about or toward me but what they showed by their behaviour was definitely not love or loving or indicative of love.

That's the best I can do.

  Sela

You're exactly right that no one can ever know what another truly feels in their hearts.  I suppose it's that very idea that got me on this topic.  There are lots of articles and books written about N's.  And from the ones I've read they all seem to say that N's can't feel love.  That's why I thought that maybe the family members of N's would have a special insight into that.  It is very sad that there are so many people out there who are that damaged.  'Love' is such a very basic emotion.  But yet there are people who have impaired emotions.  And then there is an even larger group of people who are affected by these N's.  People that do feel love and can't understand those who don't.  And there is nothing sadder (in my mind) than a child who isn't loved by his/her parents.  Thanks to all of you for opening up in this thread.  And what I find is very remarkable is that the people on this board are so kind and caring.  You have found love after all.