How would you classify my ex-girlfriend?

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

It was obviously some obsession on my part that caused me to originally post this topic last week. The breakup happened in February and I did the posting at the end of April.  Although I was very honest in all the information I provided I would say that my major driving force was that I needed validation of my story.

I hope the following besides being an update...may help others understand why they choose bad relationships and then why they cant let go... There may be some similarity. Some of you may think I am absolutely full of it or out of my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a followup I have visited a psychiatrist.  Over 2 visits I gave a full history including my family and I have also related other times In the past where I have obsessed about personal relationships or work related issues. Remember I am the one who initiated the break up while I am also the one doing the obsessing.

While I am not an an alcoholic or drug user, It does seem that I  have some characteristics which are similar to my father.  He was an uncontrollable gambler and was married five times.  I have no interest in gambling. The similarity is that we both obsess. He obsessed about gambling. I seem to obsess in personal relationships.

The observation of the psychiatrist is as follows...Where Gambling was a drug to my dad...someone like my ex-girlfriend was like a drug to me. Someone who was very exciting but at the same time a bad person for me. Her bad behavior somehow lifted me up like a drug. Without her I am depressed while at the same time I know that she is no good for me. So at the moment I am stuck.

What seemed to be happening  is that no matter what anyone would tell me when I reach the rumination phase... I will look for anyway to blame myself and need constant validation of her NPD traits to kept myself convinced that I am not to blame. Any validation I have received to this point does not stick in my self conscious. The need for constant validation has been a major issue. First of all it has not worked and second of all I drive my friends and family crazy looking for it. The problem is that I seem to fall back into that obsession and I continually relive the relationship waking up at three in the morning every day.

Tomorrow morning I begin with 25mg of prescribed lamicital which will escalate over the next few weeks. The psychiatrist explained to me that the obsessive and negative thoughts that I have had for years will subside.  When someone gives me good advice it will stick in my subconscious and not be exposed to rumination and require revalidation. I should no longer be held back by my negative thoughts. At the same time I am hoping to retrain my mind to look for someone is a little more sain and better for me. I need to ween myself off the unhealthy drug that she represents.

If this can work for me it would be the second greatest thing that ever happen to me aside from the birth of my daughter.

I am excited but at the same time I am skeptical as I am currently still possessing negative thoughts.

I must give it this chance because I have everything to gain. I have a lot to give.

[mudpuppy]

Hi ezpz,

Just out of curiosity, was your wife like this last joker?
And also, when you try to take the blame for the breakup on yourself does this mean you tend to excuse her behavior and would like to get back with her?

mud

[Hopalong]

Hii EZ,
You're not alone. I've been obsessive in my attachments too in the past...like codependency run amok.

A book that helped me a very great deal was Escape from Intimacy by Anne Wilson Schaf. It's about the confusion of love with obsession and how to unlearn that pattern.

Don't despair, it takes hard work but there are reasons for it, and it really is curable. You've made a great start by seeing your doctor. Will you be doing ongoing talk therapy too?

Keep on posting...that was one good outcome of what you're going through!

Hopalong

[gratitude28]

EZ,
You sound like a wonderful man with an amazing daughter. Maybe these relationships can bring about some good. You surely know what you DON'T want in a woman now!!!
You must be so hurt by these women. How did that happen with your ex-wife? Did she seem unhappy/mean/distant before she left? What a selfish person to leave behind a young child. She obviously had no regard for anyone else.
So... now that it's time to move on... have you decided what you are going to look for in a relationship? You should make a top ten list of the most important qualities and MAKE SURE slowly that the person fits into what you want and need and deserve in a partner.
I wish you luck. I am sure there is a lovely, kind soul out there waiting for you. NO MORE N's OK?!?
Love, Beth

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

Hopalong - thanks for your book suggestion ...I just recevied in the mail the orrignal book you suggested "a fine romance"

My ex-wife became cold and distant at the end...and unfortunately it turned me on. Attraction...These behavior characteristics are what I need to fix in myself. I actually had a major rumination going in my head on the plane ride home from FLA on sunday night. I kept relieving the relationship with the ex-girlfriend blaming myself,analyzing everything that hever happened and at the same time repeatedly saying to myself "EZPZ if you really think that you can change another person without their cooperation than you need help". I am looking for the lamcital to help logic prevail and end the rumination.

I just took my first 25 mg this morning.

I am sort of laying low right now over the next few weeks as I am really looking forward to seeing the changes kick in.

I will make the list of what I am looking for in a partner in the new few weeks.

[Brigid]

ezpz,
Sounds like you are making good progress.  Give the AD's time to kick in (sometimes takes a couple of weeks to reach their full potential).  I, too, was very obsessive in my thought patterns when my ex left, and can still be about things which bother me (the Ad's helped somewhat, but didn't remove the obsessing altogether).  At the time, I had anxiety attacks thinking I could run into him with the gf (which I later learned could never have happened) and would drive around parking lots looking for his car before I would go into the local grocery store or restaurants.  It really is a crazy-making time.

In addition to being addicted to "bad girls/boys," you can also be addicted to relationships.  There have been some websites and books referenced on this board that discuss that.  My therapist always referred to me as "relationship-oriented," but addicted could probably apply.  I wanted to find a relationship to help me heal not long after my ex left and even tried a few dates.  Fortunately, I was in therapy at the time and with his help, realized that a new relationship was not going to fix my problem in the long term.  I forced myself to be alone until I had gotten through the intense therapy I needed to heal.  When I was finally healthy and mostly happy, then I was ready to look for someone who was also healthy--not someone I needed to rescue or "fix." 

I think making a list of the qualities you're looking for in someone to date is a very good idea, but take your time to heal from this previous relationship before jumping back in.

Brigid

[gratitude28]

Make sure you come back and tell us how you are doing!!!!
Love, Beth

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

I am up to 50 Mg on the lamictal. The depression went away as soon as I began with 25mg.

I have been experiencing severe anxiety attacks. The doctor says I will feel the effects of the lamictal at 150-175mg. June 1 i reach 100mg and then June 8 i reach 150g. 

Yesterday I did the most stupid thing during an anxiety attack. I called her on my cell. I said  Hi "name withheld"....please don't hang up. As soon as she knew it was me  I heard click and a hangup. Pretty silly of me. She never had any empathy when we were together ..why would I think she would have any now. It just hurts that I have never gotten an apology for any of the things that were said me "your psychotic, your retarded .etc".  You cant get any closure.

[Hopalong]

Aw, PZ.

You cant get any closure.

Yes, you can. But it does not happen with anyone outside you.
It happens inside you, when you are kind to yourself.

Grief feels like an open wound. But it does heal.

Remember: SHE is not going to heal you. YOU ARE.

Have faith! I have hit bottom so badly after a breakup that the pain took my breath away. For ages.

Now...I look back and see it actually was a gift. It woke me up to the unhealthy, unrealistic ways I fixated on emotionally unavailable and inappropriate partners. In hindsight, after lots of work to heal (reading a lot of books on genuine intimacy and healthy relationships, seeing a therapist)...

I see that last breakup (of a completely unfulfilling relationship) as a gift. That would seem incomprehensible to me at the time, but it is true.

I have faith the same conclusion can come to you. It will be your learning that does it.

Hopalong

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

is sending your ex an encompassing article on NPD a means of closure for the abused? Is it a wise thing to do?

[Hops]

EZ,
I can relate so much to your struggle.
What the goal is, I believe, is NO CONTACT.

I read books with titles like "Don't Call That Man". You could too, actually. You might find it interesting. The whole thing was designed to help someone break the compulsive, addictive, desire for contact with someone with whom the relationship was:

1) Over
2) Toxic
3) Fantasy-based

Meanwhile, I'll tell you that I did send my last Nbf a link on narcissism. Suggested he read up on it and calmly stated that I believed this was what his issue was. He wrote back all defensive, and I just stayed calm, said, sorry you have to dismiss it, best of luck to you... Anyway, as ever, he subtly, manipulatively managed the last word. He posted on his artist's website a meaningless "artist's statement" that explained how his paintings were intended to create empathy. HAH! Bet he'd never thought about that word for 5 seconds in his life, but this was his subtle way of weaseling out of confronting anything...he'd just co-opt it.

So I truly believe there is no satisfaction for you whatsoever in any contact with her under any guise. Even to help her wake up. She won't. She's hardened into who she is, and she's not going to change.

You, meanwhile, WILL get over your feelings of loss and humiliation. You will get your dignity back. You will eventually stop daydreaming about the next time you see her and how you might react. You will eventually NOT CARE what she thinks or does or with whom.

This is really really true, EZ. I swear it on a stack of everything.

In the meantime, NO CONTACT will help you push through it faster. Plus, diversions and support.  How about posting here every time you feel the contact urge? We could prop you up until it passes. I know what it's like, like dieting or quitting cigarettes, and a buddy system really does help.

Hops

[mudpuppy]

is sending your ex an encompassing article on NPD a means of closure for the abused?

In a word, no.
Closure with Ns is not a lightbulb moment, I don't think. It comes about through the slow and rather painful realization that there are truly malevolent, unfeeling creatures walking among us feeding off the more vulnerable and trusting.
It takes time for the poison they inject into us to work its way out. Some day, could be a long time from now, you'll find you feel pity and little else for her. That's probably about as close as you'll get to closure, sorry to say.

mud

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

I have so many mixed up feelings and that is the problem

It seems as if NPD and it associated lack of empathy result from the infantile emotional maturity of those people. Just like a four year old may not have empathy for others and is very self centered it seems like those with NPD are behaving along those lines. If they don't get what they want then they lash out at everyone. Bean you are correct as always. I dont wish to be mean or revengeful. I am the adult.

I wanted to marry this girl. I really loved her. But at the same time her emerging behavior scared me so much that I just could not. I could not risk it. Could not go thru the rest of my life being belittled and controlled. I tried to tell her how abusive she was but she could not see it. She told me that I had bamboozled her by pretending that I wanted to be married. I did want the marriage but not under those conditions. I know that my original rejection ( refusal to get married) hurt her deeply.  I believe that is what caused her to really turn up the heat as far as the devaluation goes (psycho,retarded naming calling .etc). She thought I was crazy because she did not have the capability to accept responsibiliy. I did not know what NPD was at that time so I thought that she was just a mean person.

I read this review of Malignant Self Love and it contained the following regarding NPD which is amazing to me:

"It can be hurtful to know how he talks about you to others, calls you names and labels you in the most horrible way until you read Dr. Vaknin's work. There you will learn how almost every narcissist does the same thing as if they had a manual to go by. You find a slight sense of peace to see how 'every' narcissist's ex is crazy, psycho, a lunatic in their eyes. If you're the ex, it is very validating and healing"



I really hope this lamictal when it reaches 100 mg will start handling the obsessive thoughts!

EZPZ

[Hopalong]

Hope so too, EZ. Relief will come.

About this:

I know that my original rejection ( refusal to get married) hurt her deeply.  I believe that is what caused her to really turn up the heat as far as the devaluation goes (psycho,retarded naming calling .etc).

No.

We always have a choice about how to take rejection. It's very painful but it is part of life. We can respond with dignity and distance until we heal. Or, we could attack (name calling, out of control "psycho" behavior?).

She chose the latter, you did not "cause her" to, imo.

Hops (I'm being really blunt tonight--as well as a compulsive poster--hope I don't hurt your feelings)

[ezpzlemonsqueezy]

Hi Bean,

Here is my plan.

In the past I have alternated two types of behaviors. I would ruin potentially good relationships because I was too over anxious and insecure or I would come under the thumb of a controlling woman who dominated me until I reached the point where I  said "I cannot take it anymore!"

I don't want either of these patterns to continue any longer. I am 47 now and I am not getting any younger. I want to engage in a relationship with someone who is caring, positive, supportive, nurturing and intellgent.

I don't want a woman to come along and raise my self-esteem. I want my self-esteem to be in place before I meet the woman. I want to be strong enough so that I may assert myself when needed. I don't want to be in a bad relationship because I am afraid to be alone.

I talked to a therapist for 10 years. I have not made much progress. She and my family have continually given me good advice which I have never followed. I have always been deterred by feelings of insecurity which caused me to make bad decisions.

I am doing something that I have never done before. I am spending time alone and not looking to pursue a relationship until I feel stronger as a  person. This is so alien to me. Normally I would look to jump into a new relationship right away to fill that void.

Right now I really want the company of friends or family. Its a little difficult because I don't have family living in this area anymore. They moved south. The only reason I stay is so my daughter can finish high school. It can be a little lonely sometimes. So i am trying to busy myself taking some golf lessons, volunteering in the father's club at school and hopefully line up a tennis game.

My psychiatrist feels I have a slight chemical imbalance which causes worry, anxiety, need for reassurance, rejection sensitivity. All symptoms of a gaba deficiency which is a neurotransmitter in the brain.  Gaba is suppose to have a calming effect on your brain by regulating the messages which are sent from the mid-brain to the cortex. These characteristics  ultimately make me puddy in the hands of a strong personality. For a person like me to meet a Narcissist is not a good thing and I am still in shock over what happened.

In the book called "listening to Prozac" there is a story of man who is a successful lawyer with two children and a wife. Despite his success he continually had low self-esteem and he never internalized his success despite years of talk therapy. The book talks about how medication enabled the man to lift his self-esteem and internalize his success. I am not a lawyer but I have been successful but I have never internalized it.

No matter what Tom Cruise may think. I believe that if talk therapy requires medication to succeed than I will do whatever is necessary to have a happy life.  I need the Lamictal to ramp up more. This Thursday coming up I finish the second week of 50mg and then becoming 100mg for one week, followed by 125 and then 150. The psychiatrist says look for positive results at 150-175 mg. If it does not work I will ask for a SSRI supplement. I wish the lamictal worked faster

In the next relationship I need to refrain from backing down when I feel i am right because of fear of being alone