Neighbors ('everybody needs good neighbours' )

[write]

ok, it's time to step into the light with this issue and work out what's going on -with me at least.

When I got very sick 2 summers ago my ex took my son to England and I was left pretty much alone here, friends in this conservative Christian neighbourhood melted away as so many religious people do when something is asked of them!
( Thank G_d I've met a few very real mostly non-religious Christians, who insired me to see beyond the er, organised detritus...)

But one of my neighbours who I didn't know well started visiting every day morning and evening. She brought meals and drove me to the store and encouraged me to take my medications, and didn't get too upset when I was really poorly, which freaked my other close friend here out. One other friend phoned me every evening for a few minutes, and the people at my church never contacted at all, so I felt pretty isolated apart from this neighbour and her family.

She has a large family ( 8 kids ) and extended family coming and going, and her husband a few weeks before had walked off his job after being piled up with work by his boss pushing him into 12-14 hour working days which he couldn't cope with.

So we spent some time discussing marriage, family issues, and walking and swimming as we both recovered from our bad year.

Except she didn't exactly recover- not financially at least, things just kept getting worse for them.

Her husband was very depressed but they have no insurance or doctor, so I asked a doctor friend if she'd see him; she said she would next day.
He wouldn't go, though my words did galvanise him into action and he got a series of jobs- but they were all commission only or basically unpaid.

One job they owed him hundreds of dollars and restructured to 'let him go' at the 11th hour so they didn't have to pay him.

During this time she also lost her job- the bully boss at her work accused her of stealing and crossed her boundary, she reported the behaviour then agreed with the person in charge to amicably quit with 2 weeks pay, to keep her reference and welfare entitlement, only to find she wasn't eligible for welfare because they later reported she left the job of her own volition. And no reference.

She got quite down, and at that point it did seem like it was circumstances just kept getting bad on them, except I noticed that whenever things went wrong they didn't seek long-term solutions or take things further, and any positive suggestion of mine was dismissed as impossible. They don't deal with things.

Anyway, the next year passed by, we helped them 2 or 3 times with a gift of $200 or so. We bought groceries for them most weeks, and they cooked for us sometimes, sometimes us for them. It was kind-of reciprocal in an unequal $/@ way!
But they said we were family, and since our nearest 'family'-friends are 500 miles away and our nearest 'family'-pain in the ass  4000 miles...well that can mean a lot.

She said she wanted a job and I got one of my employees to give her one.

I gave her husband $20 a week for his gas money for a while until one evening I happened to give it to him directly and he threw it in the air and said 'more money from heaven'.
I was vaguely irritated, and thought- is he taking the p*ss?

Because of all my medical bills, then some for my ex, we were on a tight budget right then.

Then they got their electricity cut off. I was happy to practically help- and wash and dry clothes.

Except around the same time I started having a problem with my son's ( Baptist ) childcare. Part of it was him reacting to the extremist judgemental religion ( we have taught him that gay is normal, don't judge, plus there was all the other anti-religion stuff and the anti-Muslim rhetoric because of terrorism...)
But part of it was the fact the kids who were supervising him were less mature than he is ( the incident where I pulled him out the 'counsellor' threw a ball at his head 'to get his attention' then when he got mad and stormed to the office the young man wrote a fictitious account of events. Fortunately my son is known for his straight-speaking and the head of the place quickly got to the bottom of the disparity )

But I was already having issues because my son has few friends here in what previously seemed like a great neighbourhood.

His first friend here- the family have given me major dilemmas about child neglect and abuse, the boy had bruises, refused to say where they came from.

 I refused to have the kids here in the evening because the parents would disappear for hours with no contact number.
But the mother knocked on my door three times this last year because my son said curse words...she told me she knows he has problems!
Her son has been held back, has a school mentor and is know to the nursing staff as neglected and it all seems to have passed her by.
But my son likes him for some reason and expresses a wish to feed him and be his friend- even though the other kid is often critical of my son for being la-di-da and having good parents!

I have never been once called into school for my child. He's in the gifted and talented stream. When he's home with us he's perfectly happy; mostly outside too- except he can't cope with this false-friendship stuff here...well, neither can I.

I decided to go with my instinct and -my son is fine. I spent some weeks taling to him and working out issues of anger and anger management- he is convinced he will inherit his Dad's problems...I confided all this in my friend and asked for her help and experience.

But now I needed some childcare support, I asked my friend if she would do it ( paid ) and she wouldn't commit.
Twice I asked her to get my son ( unpaid ) when I was going to be late and I sensed she was reluctant though she did get him, but my son told me 'I'm not welcome there- she doesn't like me'.

How does someone who is supposed to be a close friend, with 8 kids, manage to convey to my kid he's not welcome?
One of the things I have told my child over and over- if you feel it,examine it carefully, it's probably true.
And it's happened over and  over so I guess it is.

So the wooden chest thing is even more symbolic really....of an inability to manage things/ take control/ be discerning. Not only on their part- but mine.

[Hopalong]

Write, that's such a sad story.
You needed a real friend which she tried to be for a while...but you need a GROWNUP friend, which she can't be. How frustrating.

I wish you could move.

Hops

[Certain Hope]

Write,

   Have you asked your neighbor/friend whether she has a specific problem with your son being in her home?

Hope

[Hopalong]

Hi Write:
This is a sort of painful response and might discourage you...so please take it with a whole shaker of salt. Because I can't truly know your son at all from brief anecdotes...so this is an intuitive guess, and let me assure you my intuition has failed me! (Especially when its messages alarmed me.)

On a second reading I paid more attention, and have a question:

When he's home with us he's perfectly happy; mostly outside too- except he can't cope with this false-friendship stuff here...well, neither can I.

I decided to go with my instinct and -my son is fine. I spent some weeks taling to him and working out issues of anger and anger management

Is it possible you are in any degree of denial about him being "all better"? (I was, for a long time. My own D was bulimic for a year and I did not see it--my defenses against her being seriously wounded by my divorce at age 6, her creepy 1st stepmother, her creepy stepfather. Anyway, someone else alerted me. I had literally "too much love" to see her as in trouble, or behaving strangely.)

Maybe as a result of that horrifying moment when the penny dropped, this occured to me.
I think that children who have endured a lot of family tumult and/or have consistent socail problems--either being bullied or bullying, often have one persona at home--maybe their most relaxed and "normal" self because they are confident they're loved and they feel safe--and another among their peers, where the relationships may either be negative or non-existent.

This is what happened to my D, who was rejected by ferocious little girls for years. Once a child's mother said she couldn't spend more time with her child because my D had spent the night, and the mother overheard her rambling her free-associating fantasies to her own daughter...and they were so dark that the mother was alarmed.

Another reason I asked is that you mentioned "weeks" and I am more of the belief that if a child's issues go deep, as my D's have anyway, it's likely to take perhaps years, and some therapy...

I hate to think I'm giving you a discouraging message, Write. I may be way off base, and hope I am!
But if it were true that he has ongoing anger management problems, or other negative social issues with his peers...I know that you can find him some help and he is not fated to get stuck there!

((((Write))))

Hops

[write]

sorry for the long ramble, it's hard to get the whole picture I know.
And it really has a lot to do with me stopping helping people in some ways...

I don't think my son needs therapy H, but he of course could if he wanted to, it's something he knows his father and I have both used. There's very little denial in our home, which I think does the biggest harm. No, it doesn't discourage me, if there's something needs addressing it needs addressing.

I think he struggles like I do with this culture- everything all smiles one minute and unpleasantness the next...even the kids seem to do this, I know they're only taking their cues from the parents. But we're different, in lots of ways, and we'll never fully fit in this community.

So yes, I need to move, probably away from the South!

Better get ready for work.

[write]

Ok, ok, ok.

It strikes me that some themes are coming together in what I am posting: money/ longer-term planning/ giving money away....

and I am guessing these themes are related!

Remember when I got in such a mess with dating, someone told me to take two years off seeing a guy.
Well I am going to do the same with helping people.

I don't mean holding doors open, smiling, or donating to charity.
Just I want to work out if helping friends is the way to go....

My friend neighbour was really affectionate this morning, and I am wondering if my having helped them so much financially makes me too involved and taking things way more personally than I need to.

Questions:

have you had people in your life fall apart and stayed good friends with them?

What if a friend is always going under...is it possible to stay friends?

[lightofheart]

Hi Write,
You ask good and heartfelt questions. You sound like a very caring person. Hope you get a lot of support for that.

have you had people in your life fall apart and stayed good friends with them?

Yes, absolutely. Through all manner of wrecks. Laughed, cried, howled and came out on the other side.

What if a friend is always going under...is it possible to stay friends?

I guess that depends on the context, nature/balance of the friendship. The last friendship I had to step back from unraveled when I finally realized the extent to which it was built around my friend Z's needs and me not needing anything in return. I made many allowances for Z, based on the hard times she described. Over time, the focus of every private conversation we had was what wasn't right with Z's life. Very lopsided dynamic. Z took less and less interest in me beyond as listener/giver of support. One day I stepped back and saw that Z was always going through a hard time, and how many of those were messes of her own making and/or her taking something minor and blowing it up big. Never once saw her connect her own choices to some pretty obvious consequences (& I say that as a hardcore optimist). So Z kept making variations on the same mistakes. For far as I could tell, her idea of coping was to complain about her hard luck/relationships and blame every problem on others/the world to anyone who would listen.

I think there are people in the world who just need to be plumbers of their own lives rather than architects. Plumbers have a knack for finding the messes/relationships they need to produce crises. Architects try to take learn from their disasters and bring it to the next situation, motivated by progress. Some people yearn for sympathy more than growth. This is clearly black-and-white oversimplification and the world has many shades of grey, but I mean it as a theory of life approaches, not judgment. Some people are plumbers at work, architects at home. A big crisis can make anyone a plumber in the moment. Over the course of a life, though, I think the choices we make determine how we grow (or don't) and the clarity of our perspective at least as much as any other factor.

My Mom has a similar theory about people's emotional 'toolboxes'. She would never blame anyone for what's not in their toolbox, but thinks it's her job to decide how much energy to expend on someone who can't seem to learn from their time on Earth.

I think whether I'm throwing good energy after bad, or helping vs. enabling, has everything to do with context. In a healthy, equal friendship, I can hang in there forever. Other folks, who can't seem to give or learn as readily, are best loved from some distance, though I don't love them any less. I've sometimes found it hard to tell which is which until the chips are down and I'm the one in a postion of need. Then, I've found, it's usually easier to tell who's really in my corner.

So, blessed are the good friends and neighbors. You sound like both, Write. Best of luck/health.
 
LoH

[Hopalong]

This a wonderful, memorable and helpful image, LoH:

I think there are people in the world who just need to be plumbers of their own lives rather than architects. Plumbers have a knack for finding the messes/relationships they need to produce crises. Architects try to take learn from their disasters and bring it to the next situation, motivated by progress. Some people yearn for sympathy more than growth. This is clearly black-and-white oversimplification and the world has many shades of grey, but I mean it as a theory of life approaches, not judgment. Some people are plumbers at work, architects at home. A big crisis can make anyone a plumber in the moment. Over the course of a life, though, I think the choices we make determine how we grow (or don't) and the clarity of our perspective at least as much as any other factor.

I spent years as a plumber. In recent years I am now getting more joy out of being an architect (and I'm a more balanced friend.) Funny how that works.

Thanks for this.

Hops

[lightofheart]

Hi there Hopalong (boy, I like your name; it's a great visual),
Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad if any of the wallowing I did along the way led to any good ideas I can hold onto or share.
I was raised as the family plumber...so most of the positive stuff  I've managed to learn about relationships came the hard way.
As in, stumble, stumble, wander clueless, six steps backward, then BAM! (head smacks brick wall...Ohh, was that there all along?)
Pretty sure I'm a more balanced person and friend in architect mode, too.
It is funny how that works. I had no idea architecture was an option when my head was stuck in the drain.
happy trails,
LoH

[Hopalong]

Hi LoH,

I think I'm a cross between Hopalong Cassidy and a jackalope.
(I know what you mean about learning things the hard way. I've never felt anything harder than my own head.) 

Hops