Conflict for me, personally

[reallyME]

I have come to realize that the biggest conflict I've had personally on this board, is that there is a message that "you will be accepted, as long as you will speak that there are many ways to achieve freedom, even ways that don't involve the Creator."  "We won't come against you, as long as you will equally value our beliefs as being truth."  In other words, it is about there being no ABSOLUTES.  I am a person who stands for truth, and I don't mean just "personal truths"  I mean THE truth that will make people free.  In that truth, there is no room for "well, this could be the truth too, this might be another way to believe..."  This is where I have faced the most conflict.

I do not expect people to now all of a sudden say "wow, HEY she has a point, so we will all just switch to following the God she does."  That's too unrealistic to expect or believe, even for me.

I am merely posting this, because I'd like people to imagine what things have been like for me, being one who refuses to bend, because I found something, Someone who I know is the answer to N'ism and other things.  Please also realize I am facing persecution even within my own "circle" because I also teach and preach the psychological end of personality disorders and dysfunction.

So, for those who are here on this board, I'm the "enemy" because I refuse to bend in my stance that Jesus is THE way, and not declare Him "a" way.  For those who stand in what I do regarding Jesus being THE way, if I mention psychology as also having answers, through cognitive therapy, I also face people seeing me as a "compromiser"  of THE way.  So, being who I am, I have a definite choice to make here.  I can fold and go along with people on this board, tolerating everyone's "way" as being a possible way equal to THE way, and betray God and self....or I can stand firm, as I've chosen to do.  On the other side, I can fold and just agree that the Bible and Jesus are the only ways to help dysfunctional people, again betraying God and myself, or I can stand and tell all of the people in my same-stance group, that there are indeed other methods to help reach hurting, abused, neglected, engrandized people.

Does anyone relate to this dilemma?  If I want not to have this problem, I must change and cease being who I am, and that is a price I am not willing to pay.  Just where I'm at, through my eyes.

~RM

[lightofheart]

Excerpt of previous post from Dr. Grossman, reposted a 2nd time in Good Board Manners thread:

Really ME,
In one of your posts you said:  “As far as giving thought to others and their faith, sorry, not happening.  Jesus didn't, and I'm not.”  Nor does Osama Bin Laden.  This is a particularly dangerous position when inculcated in others—even if the teachings of Christ are added to the equation.  If you consider the Inquisition—and many other historical events—millions have died as a result of this inability to accept other forms of belief or non-belief.  You may want to read Sam Harris’ excellent new book “The End of Faith” for a full and disturbing accounting of this point of view.

But my main objection to your quote (and I believe the reason your reception on this board has been chilly at best)—the quote again:

“As far as giving thought to others and their faith, sorry, not happening.  Jesus didn't, and I'm not.”

is that this philosophy directly supports voicelessness.  Essentially, you are saying there is only one correct Voice:  Jesus/Yours.  Everyone else needs to change.  Narcissistic parents and partners provide exactly this message to the ones closest to them.  While you may continue to try to convert people to your views, I doubt that you will have any success in this venue.  However if you are truly interested in promoting and respecting all voices—and not just Jesus’s/yours, I am sure this community (which is dear to me) will welcome you with open arms.

Best wishes,

Richard

Note: I am merely reposting this here because I think it is worth considering what specific messages the founder and moderator of this board has identified as a philosophy that directly supports voicelessness and echoes the messages of Narcissistic parents and parents have provided...a source of tremendous pain for so many people who are bravely seeking respect for their voices now.

Sincerely,
LoH

[moonlight52]

Laura , I missed you. Come on, here now .............You know very well I always said I admired your strong faith in the LORD!
           and I did not try and change you and respected your Faith.HEY HEY girl .I know you do not believe in my cosmic views
           Laura ,when was that ever not OK with me .IS that a double negative oh well you know what I mean.OK
           I also love the way you use
           "Bejeebers" in the thread to jacmac.Hope you had a great time with your spiritual mom .I am sure you did .You deserve
           a great time.I never felt hurt by you .And I am such a sacrey cat I am betting I never hurt you.Thats a good thing.So maybe
           people that do not have same beliefs can like each other.Also admire one another?I will say it again I have always admired your
           strong Faith.I am not trying to change you and never felt like your enemy.Also what you wrote to Seasons was so sweet.
           This is Moon signing off Reallyme ps I believe laura is not going to be making her Faith an issue at every turn if Reallyme intents on doing
            so I guess now would be a good time to say so.Also I believe in 2nd chances.............I  believe rm is using a softer voice and not labeling
           So what kind of a world would it be if we tried to get along here on the board and exchange veiws without ill feelings?

           
           Love and Light
           Moon

[petra]

Hi ReallyMe,
I have to start this post by stating that i have found most of your posts up untill now to be triggering to say the least. I have had some people in my past who were

uncompromisingly religious and, in my case, i found them to be abusive. I have to be honest enough to state that i am not religious and i have a really difficult

time 'getting into the headspace' of deeply religious people. I understand that this is my problem and is a product of my intolerance. In saying all of this i do want you to

know that your post has really resonated with me. I found it honest, heartfelt ahd vulnerable, and it makes me question what the moderator of the board had to say.
 
What you are saying is that you know the Truth (you have stated what you believe so i won't go into it) and that you are not going to compromise this position. What  

the moderator and the majority of the population (including me) seem to be  saying is that this is just one of a number of truths and they should all be respected equally.

However, and i think this is where your frustration comes in, they are being dishonest to themselves. What they are really saying is that all beliefs are equal as long as

tolerance (or reason or liberalism or whatever word you want to use) is agreed to be the only Truth. While Religious intolerance has contributed to voicelessness in the

past, I think we should also be aware that tolerance can also contribute to voicelessness as well.

I am not sure if this is a very clear post or if this is what you mean ReallyMe, but i just wanted you to know that your post really hit home with me and made me feel

ashamed

[seasons]

ReallyME,

You are not my enemy, I admire you as a faithful child of God, hope I put that in correct terms
. I going out for the day ~ baby shower with my two N's. Just wanted you to know I quickly ready this and wanted to let you know I heard you, will talk later.

seasons

[moonlight52]

Hi ,There is a T.V.program going on between High school kids.They are Palestinian High school kids and Israelis High school kids.
The program is to see if these kids can sit in the same room with each other and talk .They talk about lots of stuff war ,faith,being teenagers making the world a better place and not hating because of Religion.OH YEAH A BIG TOPIC WAS THEIR PARENTS.Seems like they can talk about a lot of stuff and they are, it was a cool show.Maybe we can learn a lot from kids.It's a cable T.V. SHOW.I will look up the channel and post it.It was amazing ,they were just teenagers.
Moon

[lightofheart]

Hi Petra,
I was moved by what you said about your thoughts and feelings around intolerance. You gave me a lot to think about, and I thank you.

I appreciate your right to speak your views, as much as I respect mine or Really Me's or Dr. Grossman's. That said, I object to you telling anyone here that they are being dishonest to themselves, or categorizing their only Truths. I think this board is packed with good, honest people who struggle, against all sorts of odds, to support each other and address their own healing. I honor eveyone's right to disagree with me or anyone else, but I have to speak against assumptions that challenge other folks' honesty or what's in their hearts.

Respectfully,
LoH

[Hopalong]

Hi Really,
Welcome back. Sounds like your time with your spiritual mentor was just wonderful, intimate, reassuring and affirming. She must be a wonderful person and I can hear in your gentler tone how much good it did you to be loved and cared for by her for nine days. I hope you can keep loving YOURSELF just like that... at some point, we who weren't well-mothered do need to learn to turn that actual love right into ourselves, beaming it into our own chests, instead of looking for it to onlly come into us from outside ourselves. It's a surprising feeling.

I want to mention that when you generalize, like this:

for those who are here on this board, I'm the "enemy" because I refuse to bend

...you'll invariably be mistaken about many people. People here, like anywhere, are distinct individuals, and have given you very sincere and very individual answers. (You're not "enemy" to me, and I'm honestly a little disappointed you didn't notice the love I've offered you.)

But I think you're thinking very clearly and summed up your dilemma about absolutism (in both situations, with liberals and literals) really well. In a way you're caught in a position where you do respect other sources of wisdom, e.g., psychology--but can't go too far with it or mess with your core beliefs.

I feel for you. I don't know what that's like because I am not an absolutist, but I think you've articulated it very well.

Hops

[petra]

Hi Light of Heart.

Look, I am really sorry that i offended you...that was not my intention. My post was all about my thoughts and feelings regarding 'tolerance' and was not intended to include anyone else. Dishonesty was the wrong word to use but, i was really pointing the finger at me. I used the post of Dr Grossman because it has been playing on my mind for a couple of weeks and then, when i read ReallyMe's post, i had a bit of a lightbulb moment. It was insensitive of me to use it without clarifying what my intention was with you and i apologize for that.
Sorry

On re-reading my post, i understand that i used a lot of words that seemed to be speaking for everyone....that was sloppy writing and it wasn't intended

[Sela]

Hi RM:

Jesus hung around with all the riff raff of the times.......criminals, prostitutes, leppars, non-believers, all faiths, all positions in society, you name it.  He tolerated everyone.  He tried to get His message across to every single person....no matter what their class, belief or past behaviour and He loved everyone.

I just don't get how you are so absolutely certain that....

tolerating everyone's "way" as being a possible way equal to THE way,

as a betrayal to God and yourself??

It seems to me that you are betraying God and yourself by NOT tolerating, NOT loving, NOT welcoming and considering yourself enemy to..........all people who are not of your beliefs.

If you really want to emulate Jesus, maybe the best way is to be patient with everyone and accept them and hope that in time, they will hear your message vs discounting their voices?

Sela

[lightofheart]

Hi Petra,
I really appreciate your apology and the time you took to clarify what you meant, thanks for your generosity.

I see a lot of good intentions worth protecting here. More than offense, that's what I felt: protective of everyone who posts here. That's why I re-posted Dr. G's reply in this thread to begin with--not out of a desire to silence anyone, or temper their views, but as a gentle reminder that how we choose to express ourselves here can impact other people emotionally.

One example: in a group, if I hear something that sounds like potentially hurtful talk, I almost always jump in and say, hey, what about the person/people on the other side of what you just said? I had an N. parent who targeted everyone else in the family worse than me, so I have a need to affirm that hurtful talk isn't okay rather than bystand, and to defend whoever seems to be on the short end of that stick. I know I'm not alone in this, and everyone here has issues just as important/embedded/emotional, all worth considering. 

Please know that I'd defend you doggedly, too, Petra. imho, it was really big of you to apologize so quickly and graciously.

Best,
LoH

[petra]

LoH,
Thank YOU and welcome to the board...were both newbies i notice.
Bean,
I wasn't making a judgment on tolerance, it was more just my rambling thoughts upon anything that is held to be the ultimate Truth. It gives me a headache too thinking about it.
ReallyMe,
On re-reading my post, it seems to be rather harsh and critical of you. That wasn't my intention. I hope you can read past this to what i really meant, which was that i can understand your dilemma

[Hopalong]

Really,
I want to take back my little guilt trip about not feeling appreciated.
My support for you wasn't conditional.

(Just caught that. Ick.)

Hops

[reallyME]

Hops, I didn't mean to negate the extention of care you have shown for me for the most part on this board.  I think many on here would agree that you are the most likeable and amiable person on this board.  You have a very gentle, non-invasive way of putting your point across...very much like my spiritual Mom can often do.  I appreciate that about you and I bless and love you for it.

I also understand what you meant about the collective generalization of "people on the board."  I will try not to do that, as it bugs me even when a preacher says things like "WE just don't spend enough time in prayer."  I then want to jump up on that platform and tell him, "hey, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, BUDDY!  I constantly live my life in prayer!"

Petra: While Religious intolerance has contributed to voicelessness in the

past, I think we should also be aware that tolerance can also contribute to voicelessness as well.

I think that would be very true in general, yes.

Moon, Bless you.  Cosmic views or not, you have a innocence about you that is very refreshing indeed.

Bean, I appreciate your candid honesty about how what I say can sometimes make your head hurt.  That's not my intention to be sure, but I realize that many might feel that way, so I want to validate those feelings in you and others.  I could easily debate about whether God wants us to be focused on others and not on Him, with you, but it would serve no reasonable or fruitful purpose, so I am refraining.


Thank you everyone for your input.  I'm considering all you have said.

~ReallyME
Laura

[Hopalong]

Very kind words, Really. Sorry...I wasn't "fishing," or if I was, I wanted to take my hook back!
But thanks, I'm very touched.

Sounds to me like you're feeling well-aligned right now and that's great to see.
Hope these good feelings stay with you!

Hops