Author Topic: Sarcasm hurts  (Read 5843 times)

moonlight52

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 11:30:37 PM »
Hi All ,This is more about Pen's lasts words "where everything is about one upping another". I grew up in a house with FOO and N dad and this is what he is about even with small children.As I remember my twin brother he was
bright and wanted to be a writer loved chess had a poet's heart and was funny not in a hurtful way.We were really a funny comedy team for our years together.But as earlier as 10 to 12 my brother was quite good chess player.
So is my father.They would play together my father would never "give" my twin a game .Maybe thats why my twin brother was so great at chess.But there was never any love of the game when they played.It was different when my twin was playing at high school or college (he was always president of every chess club).The games he played with his friends were so different.Fun,the banter,the friendly eye contact.The who gosh darn cares who wins attitude.It was so different at home .My n father never asked once about our homework,never came to a grade school play,our parents did not come to our high school graduation or college.It was good and expected that we do these things .But other parents came we noticed.
Moon

Hopalong

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2006, 11:32:38 PM »
Oh Moon.
I'm so glad you and your twin had each other to value and respect and cheer for.
He sounds like the sun. No wonder you're Moon.

Sometimes even the most pathetic parents make wonderful children. It's a mystery,
but they made you.

I know you must miss him terribly.

(((((((Moon)))))))

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 12:06:03 AM »
Hi Hops ,yes I miss him but all of us have someone we have lost and miss.I see more joy now and understand the why of my FOO.The understanding has unlocked my heart to be strong.
I do love poets always have always will..................
Sarcasm hurts and it is too rough a sport for me.
Moon

Certain Hope

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 07:42:07 AM »
Good morning ( afternoon, or evening, as the case may be 8) )
  I see that if we stitch together the individual responses on a topic like this, the resulting patchwork quilt can give us a fuller view of the big picture. That's pretty cool... and educational, too!  :) A few things strike me about the thoughts and feelings expressed here.
  Moon, your reference to the use of sarcasm as a sport is right on, I think. Such a competition, keeping score, and plenty of opportunities to get roughed up. Maybe like a boxing match. If we return that first blow, we're committed, and from that moment on it becomes a matter of ... who can inflict the most damage to the other.
   Pavelle, you point out that sarcasm can be turned inward and used as a weapon against ourselves. I understand your reference to how that gave you "license" and I can see that I've done something similar with my own tendancies toward perfectionism. I guess if we are our own worst critic, we may get the mistaken notion that we are thereby entitled to criticize those around us? Spiritually bankrupt...  yes, that's how life with N left me, too. They not only pull the plug, they run off with the stopper, leaving us unable to contain or retain anything positive without a rebirth. Pavelle, you said,
" I just decided to take a look at myself, at how I impact the world with this better than / less than spiritually broken lens. I'm tired of it, just have to learn a new vision."   Yes. And not just new spectacles, but entirely new eyes.  Change is humbling indeed. I believe that you have the stuff that's needed to accomplish it!
   LoH... there is just something so satisfying about irony and I think "goofy" is wonderful! Besides, "popcorn sarcasm" is in a class all by itself, as is Mr. Mud (in a class all by himself, I mean).  :wink:
   Mum, congratulations and blessings on having broken out of that mold N tried to lock you into. I've had occasion since N has been physically removed from my life when I've wanted to say, "Now just get out of my head!"  But now I realize that if I fill my thoughts with all things true, lovely, pure... any remaining vestiges of him will flee screaming, like Dracula when the sun rises.

   There was something else in the posts that puzzled me a bit, but for the life of me I'm not seeing it on the page now. Tired eyes, I think. It was about the guy who gave an assignment and then stated (You'll let me know when you've got that completed?)  It seemed that his remark had been taken as an affront and I didn't really understand why. I guess he was supposed to know that of course his request would be met by due diligence and so his query of the obvious was interpreted as an insult. True confession... I might have said the same thing, simply because I was scratching off items on my mental checklist, thinking aloud, with absolutely no intention of offending anyone. He should have known that would be found offensive? Sorry, but I'd be clueless on that one, too. Honestly, I think that much of this business of offense is in the ear of the hearer. And now I require fresh coffee. Hope everyone has a great day.
Hope

Portia

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2006, 07:54:51 AM »
Hi Hope, maybe I can clarify this one:

It was about the guy who gave an assignment and then stated (You'll let me know when you've got that completed?)  It seemed that his remark had been taken as an affront and I didn't really understand why.

It was H&H’s post and she works in recruitment, was taking on a recruiting job for a colleague. So for her colleague to ask – you’ll let me know when he (the potential recruit) gets back to you? – is basically asking, so you’ll do your job will you? I mean, that is the crux of recruiting …. having people get back to you…

Hope this makes sense?

Sela

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 08:15:35 AM »
Hi Hope:

Quote
I think that much of this business of offense is in the ear of the hearer.

and/or in the brain eh?

Just wanted to let you know I left you a post over on page 4 of Stormy's "Splitting" thread.

Hope you have a chance to read it.

Thanks,

Sela


Certain Hope

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 08:34:47 AM »
I saw that, Sela. Thank you.

Hope you have a blessed day.

Hope

Portia

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2006, 09:31:51 AM »
Hi again Hope

It seemed to me you had a question earlier and I tried to answer you above (not that you asked me in particular, just that I thought I could answer you). Maybe it wasn’t a question requiring an answer so much as you voicing your puzzlement over my response to the matter?

Re the posts in question/discussion, I think I was the person who interpreted this man’s request as potentially insulting so I thought I’d respond to you above. It’s difficult interpreting that exchange without knowing much more about the people involved, so it’s quite possible that the man didn’t intend his question to be insulting and he was, as you put it, ticking items on a mental checklist. I guess it isn’t black and white, who knows exactly what happened and what the guy intended, except him himself? Interesting to think about though, in the context of are there acceptable uses of sarcasm etc.

Since I posted above, you’ve come back and haven’t acknowledged my post. I was wondering why you haven’t done that? I feel a little uneasy about that. Maybe you missed my post? Maybe there’s a different reason? I’d be grateful if you could let me know why, put my mind at rest. Thanks CH.

Certain Hope

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2006, 10:07:19 AM »
Hi Portia,

No, I didn't have a question. Thanks, though. Sometimes I don't respond because I get lost in the many many words and feel overwhelmed. Often it takes me awhile to sort through my feelings and form a response. Occasionally I simply have nothing to say.

Hope

pavelle

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2006, 10:46:33 AM »
My younger sister called me after watching a film "The Squid and The Whale" and said her husband had to "practically get a stretcher to remove her from the film"

For those that haven't seen the film, the father is totally N, and the time period and divorce is very ugly, like my parent's was. There is serious division and hostage taking of the son's by the parents, which also occurred in our FOO. This film is occasionally funny-for those outside the serious pain of it all. Much of how it is funny is watching the youngest son begin to quip back at dad (he is the rejected one) at only 10 years old. He "gets" dad back with foul language and twists of his snobbish commentary, it's early sarcasm at work. The older child has "mastered" the "correct" responses and has dad's "love". He also hates mom, badgers her with under handed remarks, he also directs these at his first girlfriend.

The boundaries are bad in this family, which is so damn painful to watch. Mom is trying to build up her self esteem by dating excessively, dad is just manipulative and malignant. The film was made by the older son after he and his brother had become adults and had to do all that work to really look at where we have been in life. Like any child of a N father, his self-portrayal in the film is rather unforgiving. In interviews he has stated he had to look honestly,take responsibility and trust the audience - I identify with that in my own recovery and my compassion for his character was large.

That is the sad part I have faced with myself. When I see my own sarcasm, this need to protect myself and avoid vulnerability, I need to remember I am now safe to have empathy for both myself and others. First I have to take responsibility to avoid the behavior, then I must create some compassion for myself first by validating this lack of original modelling of how to. I never learned how "not to" This was expected, normal. I was defending my broken heart most of my childhood and the only modelling of defense I ever saw was to cover up weakness with pretense and sarcasm and try to capture the audience (or distract them).

I didn't know what the hell I did half the time in my life. I was appearing to the world far more confident than reality and then complaining that no one saw how much life hurt me. I wasn't letting the world love me since I was so scared to show a need for love. That just is, I guess it has to be ok. I've been able for a bit of time now to look at this with some love for me in it, and some responsibility too. It is a long journey to trust my audience, my first one was so critical.

Pavelle

mum

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2006, 11:01:51 AM »
Pavelle, I cannot bring myself to see that film (Squid), as I believe it will hit sooo close to home I won't be able to breathe.

I will not see "thirteen" either, even though my most N'ish friend (and NON parent) insists I do to "warn" me of "how quickly a good kid can go down hill". Although other friends who saw it, and know my kids and my parenting, laugh when they hear this! Still, I see no reason to see it.


pavelle

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Re: Sarcasm hurts
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2006, 02:07:35 PM »
Quote
Pavelle, I cannot bring myself to see that film (Squid), as I believe it will hit sooo close to home I won't be able to breathe

Mum,

My sister had that intense of an experience, but duly loved it. It is very different from Thirteen. What was hopeful is the elder son's "clarity", which is also the title of the film. The film is painful - very. It also has this great strength that my sister and I found comfort in, not unlike this forum. It is so honest, it doesn't make excuses. It offers the narrative that when we allow ourselves to feel wholely, we prevail. That was my take. I like it's depiction of finally seeing/feeling this clarity amid inappropriate and flawed conditions and people and realizing we too are compassionate.

One of the interviews on the Dvd extended version asks Noah (the director) how come the only character he never offers redemption for is the father. That all the others seem to come to a moment of "insight". In a very recognizable (to a child of an N) way he responded (paraphrased from memory) "many commented and asked me to make that occur in the film, that just wasn't going to happen in this movie" One kinda senses that was because that hadn't ever happened in Director's lifetime...which is why he made the movie, which is why he needed that voice finally to be heard.

Now I always get scared of projecting but my therapist had the same takeaway from this interview...whatever that is worth.

My sister and I ultimately found it validating of our "weird lives" - we also like that it is in the city we hail from, though Brooklyn, not the Upper West Side of NY.

Pavelle