Dog advice

[mum]

I am sure the non doggy folks here may wish I would find a message board for dog owners:
but I don't want to talk to strangers....

My older dog is not well today. Whining (he's the talker) and walking in an almost crouched position. The last time he did this, I thought "hips" as he is large and older. But it turned out to be "tummy" and he threw up. So maybe that's what he does when he is nauseous.
The puppy was sick last week, out of both ends (lovely image, no?) and the vet just hit her with everything in the book (because she was going on a trip with my d and her dad next day) and now she is fine.

Third (big) dog is just fine, only cracking up because I don't want to leave older dog for a walk (plus, it's 100 degrees out).

So my question is: could it be a virus? Or could the Rimadyl my older dog is on for arthritis be upsetting his belly? Or did he get injured playing and his legs hurt? He did go outside earlier and eat grass....
I sooo wish dogs could talk and tell me what's going on!  It's pathetic.

Is there anyone out there who knows dogs and could help? Sunday is a rotton day to take an animal to the vet (about 5 times the expense of a workday).  He is just like a kid and wants me to hold him....

[lightofheart]

Hi Mum,

I'd second Stormy's advice to get your dog to the vet ASAP.

Aside from the learned behavior of humans, animal survival instinct=to be silent in even terrible pain, so as not to draw predators. If a pet is crying out, against their own instinct, chances are it indicates real distress.

Also, and I truly don't mean to scare you, but four days of arthritis meds caused kidney failure in our older dog this year. I'm not suggesting that it's the case for your dog, only that it can happen. We literally saved her life by taking her to the vet quickly.

Prayers and healing thoughts to you and your dog, Mum. He's in good hands with you.

LoH

[Brigid]

Mum,
Could be a variety of things.  Possibility of bloat--life threatening if not treated immediately.  It is displayed by severe stomach discomfort and will escalate if not treated.  Gases build up in the belly and cannot be expelled--can also cause the stomach to literally twist and this is called stomach torsion.  I've had emergency surgery done twice on the same dog for that.  Much more common in large breeds.

Could also be something simple, but if there is whining and lethargy, that is never a good sign.  Can you take his temp.  Normal is 101.5.  Usually you can tell if it is elevated by feeling their bellies.  The tummy will get very warm if a fever is present.  Check the gum color also.  Light is not good, very red is also not good.  They should be pink.  The nose should be wet and cold--not dry and warm.

A sore foot from stepping on or in something, usually will not present in the way you describe.  They will try to use it but will favor it.

I think you may be looking at an emergency vet visit.  They never have these problems at a convenient time.  Having bred and shown dogs for over 20 years and owned plenty, I have more emergency experiences than I care to think about.  Usually your regular vet now has you go to a specialized emergency clinic during off hours.  I miss the days when they actually handled it themselves.

I wish you and the puppy well.  It is very hard to see them in pain and not have them be able to tell you what's wrong.  Keep us posted.

Brigid

[mum]

Thanks for the advice.
He will walk, although it looks pained.He is not whining unless I cuddle him, then it is very slight (but he always talks when we cuddle...so maybe that's not too important...)  His nose is wet, his gums are pink, his abdomen is soft and normal sized. I thought of bloat, too, but I don't think it's that because he has been doing this since yesterday afternoon, and what I know about bloat is that it is acute and fast.
I decided to still my mind a bit and medidated, with the intention that something, anything, come to me....a sign, an idea, a memory, an inclination, and what I saw was a scene from yesterday that I forgot about:
My younger, more spastic dog (same size) gets "crazy" when he knows there is another dog outside the yard, on the street, and when he can't "get to it" he goes after any nearby dog (usually the older, sometimes the younger). Usually just for a second, barks at him, tries to rile him up, etc. Many people told me they experience the same thing with 2 or more dogs.

But yesterday, the younger dog went totally nuts....I had to break it up, it was like a real dog fight (almost...no bites). It really only lasted for a few seconds, but it was intense. The older dog came over to me a whined and I comforted him and scolded the other and it was all forgotten (dogs are so present moment).

I was not sure what the memory meant, but started thinking he got just plain hurt in the scuffle, being old and all and remembering that he was droopy last night as well.
A friend who is very dog saavy stopped by to check in and she also didn't think it's GI related. He ran (a little strangely) to the door to greet her, so that was good, too. Then he laid down instantly again.
I was petting him and I inadvertantly pressed my elbow into his....and he let out a big YELP! Bingo. I think that the pain is muscle or skeletal now.

He also had no problem downing a little dog "cookie", just didn't want to get up to get it (yeah, I know, totally spoiled dog).

So I am concluding that he did indeed get injured yesterday and is doing what he feels he needs to, in order to rest it. He is a huge baby (thanks to me) anyway. And, in retrospect, every time he lies down, it is toward one side. He is not limping, so I don't think it's a paw, but higher up...elbow, shoulder, chest?....hmmmm.

The other very distinct possibility in the back of my mind is that he has several small tumors, mostly skin deep that I have checked regularly....and he may very well have more, internal ones, as he ages.I hope that is not the case, but I know it's possible.

I will take him in tomorrow and in the meantime, I will watch him like a hawk.

Thanks for caring....it means a lot to me....

[Stormchild]

Hi mum... my head is spinning a little...

I thought that an attitude of abundance meant believing that even if you have to pay extra to take the pooch to the vet on Sunday, it's worth it to alleviate his pain, and the money you need will come because you are doing what is right, and there will be enough if you just believe there will.

I know that this has always worked for me.

In fact, it's about the only place it ever does work, in my life. I've always been willing to spend whatever it takes on my fuzzy valentines, no matter what, and there's always been enough to do what needed to be done.

I've seen miracles happen - ended up with more money after paying horrendous vet bills than I had before. No way to explain it, and no mistake in the checkbook. Loaves and fishes. Miracles.

And I've seen other miracles too. My new kitten was at the point of death from internal injuries that nobody even suspected, when the rescue volunteers found her [this was before I even knew she existed]. The best guess is that someone kicked her... if my vet hadn't gotten a break in his schedule, and decided to spay her that night before closing up shop, she'd have been dead the next morning. It was that close.

Sorry, I probably shouldn't say anything, but I'm confused, because I normally have a scarcity mentality about everything, based on half a century of extremely unambiguous experiences. This is the only place in my own life where I know, for absolute certain, that belief in abundance works.

Maybe each of us has abundance in some places but not others -- that would about explain my life experience, anyway.

I hope the pooch makes it through the evening without too much discomfort.

(((mum))) (((poor old aching doggie)))

[mum]

Thanks, Stormy, for your continued concern. I am not bringing him to the vet tonight, unless he gets worse, which he is not. He is eating....got up fine for that,  relieved himself in the yard and came back in to lay down.
Thank you for your reminder about abundance. Certainly if I take him in tomorrow it will still cost me an arm and a leg, but it will be with a vet I trust and know well, not with a stranger, (who by the way I called and who recommended I not bring him in based on my observations).

I have a gut about this, and I don't believe it is an emergency situation, but a chronic one, and not one I look forward to exploring, but explore I must. Tests, etc... If I am lucky, it's sore muscles, or even joints. (not that it's a good thing either). This exploration will be much better handled by his regular vet, I am certain.

I appreciate your concern, really. You can rest assured that I am not stuck on the money issue at all, but am going on past experience with the emergency vet here....and my dogs slight improvements of this afternoon. I will certainly rouse a neighbor to help me get him to the emergency vet if I think it's warranted tonight.

I hope you will continue to send healthy thoughts to my big black baby. Thanks, Stormy

[lightofheart]

To

(((Mum))) and (((big black baby)))

& the hopefully teeny tiny vet bill.

[Stormchild]

Thanks mum. I understand! Completely.

Hope your big old pooch is gonna be OK. Blessings to you both - and to the vet you trust. I know that situation well. We travel an hour to ours, he's worth his weight in gold.

[Hops]

((((Mum))))

I'm visualizing a big ole Lab-ish kind of pooch. Might be way off the mark, but I'm (gingerly) hugging him anyway.

Good hopes for a good outcome for this good ole boy.

Hops

[mum]

Thanks so much, Light of Heart, Brigid, Stormy and Hops, for the good wishes for my hairy baby. (look up flat coated retriever...pretty darn close, hops). Obviously,all the good energy got to him!  And he is the most huggable dog I have ever had...a real cuddler!

He is getting back to normal. I can't believe I panicked the way I did. I feel like I need to apologize for taking anyone else down there into my panic with me. It was not warranted.  

Since getting up (getting ME up!) this morning, and eating normally, he has progressively shown improvement. Maybe sleeping with me last night is what he needed (ya, I know someone could run with that one).

He played a little outside, even trotting a bit. Sometimes while standing, he carefully picks up his front leg and places it back down, like he is trying to find a comfortable stance. He walks on it fine, otherwise. Yesterday he would not get up even for a cookie, and today he is stalking me, "asking" for one everytime he sees me go into the kitchen. (honestly, it's the cutest little "Woooowooowooo". He has me so well trained).

So I guess it is the aging thing... tussles with the young dog....gets hurt a lot easier than he used to.
Will be bringing him in for blood work anyway this week, just to check his thryroid (he is on medication) levels, and other scarier things.
Thanks again, fellow dog "suckers" (are we not? my friend who came over yesterday had to put down her retriever in June....and after being with my boys...well, I don't think it's going to be long before she's hanging out at the Humane Society)

[Brigid]

mum,
If he shows signs of minor aches and pains of age, you can give him 1 adult aspirin each day to help with that.  I used to have to do that with one of my guys when he got older (no longer with me), and it really helped his mobility.  I've got one on thyroid meds too.

Glad to hear he is feeling better.  Happy 4th.

Brigid

[mum]

Brigid: he is doing so much better, we went out walking and he didn't even slow down, like he usually does, toward the end.  Made the younger dog mighty happy to get out, too.
I have a question about asprin: I have him on Rimadyl, which is very costly, but effective. Do you have any experience with this versus aspirin? Thanks

[Brigid]

Mum,
It depends on how great the pain level is.  My English Setter that I have now, was diagnosed with the worst set of hips in ES history (my history at least) when he was 6 months old (he just turned 6 years).  Long story short, he had to have surgery to alleviate the situation.  Before he could get the surgery done, he was in a great deal of pain and was on Rimadyl, which helped a lot.  Since the surgery, he has been fine with no signs of pain at all.  Since we only did surgery on the hip that was really bad, it is probably only a matter of time before something more drastic (total hip replacement) will have to be done.

Anyway, if your boy is only suffering minor aches and pains of arthritis or aging, you might be able to fix that with aspirin.  I would talk to the vet about it, but the worst that could happen is that you give it a try and it is not strong enough.  Good luck.

Brigid

[mum]

Thanks, Brig!

[Hopalong]

Does it have to be enteric-coated aspirin?
Are there GI side effects or can most dogs handle daily aspirin?

(I'm wondering if it might be good for most older big dogs...)

Hops