Mother-Daughter Jealousy?

[Anastasia]

Question:  Of all your Board members, have any of you experienced your mother being jealous of you or one of her other daughters?  Or do you know of someone like this?
Not much on the net about this subject, which surprises me. 
But got to thinking about this subject--which, unfortunately, is more common than expected; and wondered if any of you have any knowledge of this subject?
My own Nmother has been jealous of me since I started growing boobs, but, then, she is insanely jealous if the dog likes someone better than her, too.  Is this just a trait of narcissism?  Or is it something else?

[Sela]

Hi Anastasia:

I know similar types.  One that gets me going is my children's step mother.  I think she is severely jealous of both my girls...their qualities....any opportunities/privileges they happen to get.....their accomplishments.....friends....relationships
......the whole kit and a caboodle.

She makes rude, nasty and cruel remarks to them frequently and seems to have a real difficult time hiding her jealous feelings.  And she fights with their father (her husband, my ex) out of jealousy too.  Example:

I was there last Christmas day and after everyone had opened their gifts, my girls went upstairs to put their stuff away and I went to the front entrance to put my boots on and I heard her say, loudly, to my ex:

"Next year......you better spend as much on me as you do on your kids!!!" (in a very nasty tone).

 

I had just seen her open some very lovely gifts, some quite pricey, that he had given her and I thought:  "That's a nice improvement....to see him making an effort and spending his hard earned cash on his wife like that.  Wow!  What a great change!"

I think he spent more on her and what the heck????? That's not what Christmas is about anyhow!!  Ooooo!  She ticked me off there!!  I wanted to duct tape her mouth shut, even if it was Christmas ( ).  I felt bad, taking my girls and leaving my ex there to deal with her....alone (   ain't that ridiculous??).

(It's weird but we have a very open door policy, in both our homes....for my girls sakes.....and this woman is very pleasant and kind to me, to my face, but supposedly, according to my girls, she bad mouths me, the minute I leave.....
In some ways....she just seems totally unable to contain herself?).

My understanding, thus far, about jealousy is that it is usually, supposedly, a feeling that crops up big time when a person feels inadequate/insecure/undervalued/unworthy/etc.  Basically, they feel really lousy about themselves and everyone else in the world looks better to them.

    To me, this is so sad.  They waste their lives as if standing outside a candy store looking in.  This is what I've told my girls and also, for them to do their very best not to take what this woman says to heart, not to believe her angry/nasty/rude/cruel/or otherwise derogatory words because they just are not true.

It's hard though.  People like her manage to say the most cutting things, especially in front of other people/in social situations.  They shock.  They ridicule. They batter with words, but very slyly.

I wish I knew a magic answer that would shield my girls and  you too Anastasia from such meanness.  All I can say is don't believe what she says to you.  It's probably the exact opposite that is true.  If she says you are ugly the truth is you are gorgeous.

It's not easy though is it?  To know and understand that this person is jealous doesn't take away the initial sting of her words.  Especially being your own mother.

I'm so sorry (((((((((((((((((Anastasia)))))))))))))))).  No daughter should ever have to feel such hurts.  No child, especially.  It's so sad.   

I guess you just have to try to remember that she feels like crap......about herself........and that's why...why....why.....she behaves as she does.  It has nothing to do with you.  Not a thing!  It's all about her.

Sela

[Certain Hope]

Hi Anastasia,

Yes, I've always sensed that my mother is jealous of me/ my experiences/ any attention I might receive from those with whom she seems to view us as being in competition over (my dad, especially). Dad has also told me in the past that she is intensely jealous. One account I recall him sharing with me is .... When they were newlyweds, nearly 60 years ago, Dad's parents were fostering a young girl in their home. When my folks would go to visit over there, Dad always brought along something special for this young girl (I think she might have been 13 or so at that time) and he was aware then that my mother was full of resentment about it.

  I've never really viewed my mother's jealousy as being based on a poor self-image. It seems to me that it's more about her desire to possess everything (and everyone, via control), so if another person has something additional, that's a loss to her. This seems more like envy, to me. I distinguish between jealousy and envy in this way:  Jealousy wants what the other person has; envy not only wants what the other person has, it doesn't want the other person to have it. I guess that's the foundation of narcissism in the first place... if the world doesn't revolve around "them", then they cease to exist, so any evidence that others possess value diminishes the N. To me, that explains loads about those with such a critical spirit, as well.

  If you've not run across these yet, you might be interested in this:   
http://www.mothershock.com/blog/archives/2006/06/blog_book_tour_36.html

and also this:  http://wsi.org/journal2.html    (THE MOTHER-DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP: ECHOES THROUGH TIME)

Hope

[adrift]

Sela is right, it's about her (the step-mom in this case) not about the daughter.

 I noticed a change in my mom towards me when I started dating (age 16) and I have mentioned on here before, I think, about how sometimes when my boyfriends were over (not that I ever had that many) she would come into the den/kitchen area with a housecoat on and it would be open so that a good amount of cleavage was showing. I never said anything about it to her (you never crossed MY mom) but the first time it happened I about  stroked out (very quietly of course). I had never seen her show cleavage EVER! I thought it must have been an accident. But yet it happened on several other occassions throughout the years and only when one of my boyfriends was over---not that they looked at her, my mom was in terrible, flabby shape which leads me to wonder, WHAT WAS SHE THINKING? Did she really think she looked attractive????? Course she had been very attractive when she was younger (and rather promiscuious too) and she used to brag to me about how in her twenties her waist was smaller than mine was when I was in my late teens (I was 5'5" and 120 pounds, so just how wide could my waist have been  ) THose comments never bothered me though and once (and I think the last time she said it) I replied to her, yeah, but you smoked a lot which is probably why you were so skinny.  (And the smoking killed her in her late 60's)  Once, she got a letter from her sister (after she'd sent her sister a recent photo of me) and her sister replied (mom had me to read the letter) that I was pretty, but my mom had been much prettier when she was my age     My mom really liked that!  Didn't bother me too much, just thought it was a little cruel. And I guess these things didn't bother me because years before I had distanced myself from her, we weren't close.

 Yes, in retrospect, my mom was definitely jealous and may be that is one of the reasons she denied me nice clothes, etc.... She INSISTED I go to the local private school, but then never let me dress or do other stuff to fit in.  I was an outcast because of her (her reputation, her weirdness, her anger towards everyone, her refusal to let me fit in) and she always said there wasn't money for clothes, but when she decided to take art lessons, money suddenly appeared for her to buy art supplies, pay an art teacher, etc..., when dad wanted a boat there was money for that, when she wanted a camper to go camping there was money for that, .............

When my oldest child was young, my mom spent lots of money on her, buying her more clothes than she could ever wear, etc... and one day my mom said to me, "I don't think I realized when you were younger how important clothes were", I just shrugged.  I think she knew, but she got some sick pleasure out of denying me. Oh, I should add that my mom grew up extremely poor and I think (actually I'm pretty sure) she wanted me to suffer too simply because she had suffered as a kid and in all fairness, my mom had a really crappy childhood.  

OK, getting back to the jealousy thing.  When MY oldest daughter turned 16 and started bringing home some right hunky guys, I suddenly felt old  .  Here were these very hot looking, testosterone raging guys in my house but I was the mom. I was a little jealous of my DD1, but only in that I wished at those moments that I could have gone back to being 16    Sorry, just being human here.  I wasn't jealous to the point that I denied her or was mad at her or hated her or anything, I was just at that point in my life that I think most of us come to when we realize "YEP! I'm defniltely old now!"

So, yep, I think the ugly green headed monster rears it's head, but how the mom or step-mom deals with said monster is what is important.  Some can handle it, some can't.


Adrift

[Magnolia44]

Sela,
What a great reply!

Yes, my mother is the jealous type, not only of me, but anyone.  It really hurts when your mother is jealous of you or your child.  I call it, 'intergenerational jealousy'.  My mother never seemed invested in my success or happiness. It was sick. Whenever I would buy something nice for myself like new shoes or a purse, she would make some snide remark like they were too expensive and I did not need them. Usually a short time later, she would own the same item!  I am sure she was not fully aware of what she was doing; or at least, I hope not!  Anyway, it is most hurtful.  A healthy parent wants their children to have more success in life and to have is easier than what they had, but not N parents.

N parents can ruin your life.  Both my parents are Ns.  I recently cut them out of my life, and while it is sad, it is easier than dealing with them. They continued to emotionally hurt me and that was holding me back on so many levels because I would have to fight depression. Now, they have no access, which is the ultimate rejection. If this does not force them to honestly reflect on their behavior, then nothing will.  So many people have no business having children.

I have looked for good info on this issue as well and did not come up with much either.  I do think this issue is a major problem. It appears that many of the female celebs have difficult relationships with their mothers and I bet jealousy is why.

I never called my mother on this issue, but I encourage you to if you get a chance.  For the longest time, I did not understand that was what was going on. I could never imagine a mother would feel that way. but now I see that it is the truth.  I think it is one of the most destructive things women can do to other women.  We need to understand that when one of us wins, we all win.

[Magnolia44]

Sela,
What a great reply!

Yes, my mother is the jealous type, not only of me, but anyone.  It really hurts when your mother is jealous of you or your child.  I call it, 'intergenerational jealousy'.  My mother never seemed invested in my success or happiness. It was sick. Whenever I would buy something nice for myself like new shoes or a purse, she would make some snide remark like they were too expensive and I did not need them. Usually a short time later, she would own the same item!  I am sure she was not fully aware of what she was doing; or at least, I hope not!  Anyway, it is most hurtful.  A healthy parent wants their children to have more success in life and to have it easier than what they had, but not N parents.

N parents can ruin your life.  Both my parents are Ns.  I recently cut them out of my life, and while it is sad, it is easier than dealing with them. They continued to emotionally hurt me and that was holding me back on so many levels because I would have to fight depression. Now, they have no access, which is the ultimate rejection. If this does not force them to honestly reflect on their behavior, then nothing will.  So many people have no business having children.

I have looked for good info on this issue as well and did not come up with much either.  I do think this issue is a major problem. It appears that many of the female celebs have difficult relationships with their mothers and I bet jealousy is why.

I never called my mother on this issue, but I encourage you to if you get a chance.  For the longest time, I did not understand that was what was going on. I could never imagine a mother would feel that way. but now I see that it is the truth.  I think it is one of the most destructive things women can do to other women.  We need to understand that when one of us wins, we all win.

[Hops]

Great thread. Thank you, Anastasia.
NMom has shown more competitiveness with me than outright jealousy. Particularly for my Dad's attention or time, and basically, when any male is around. She's not seductive (too proper) but gets clearly agitated when the conversation drifts away from her, or if two other people get animated and start enjoying their talk. It's odd because she "plays tapes", telling the same anecdotes in the same ways, same inflection, same stories, as though a tape were restarted over and over again in the same spot on a book on tape. Even her old friends recognize this...and it was happening long before she was elderly. Once she told me she'd overheard a snobby woman in a local beauty parlor refer to her as, "that boring woman". I know that really hurt her. So I have practically gnawed my tongue off to prevent ever saying anything like it to her. It's the truth though. She is extremely boring because she's caught in her tapes, and therefore can't be present with other people, or notice them in a present way, though she goes through all the social motions. (And she must do that well, as she's always been social.)

BUT. I went through a spate of being jealous of my D's car!

I'm not any more. But when she first got it (with insurance $$ from a wreck plus several thousand from NMom) I was struggling with resentment over D's lack of financial responsibility and draining of my wallet, which was stressing me (until I stopped). They came home with a gorgeous elegant successful-lady car. Used, but lovely. I couldn't admit it to myself for a while but I was jealous (my car is 13 years old and held together by rust--a classic student car.) I'm 56! I should have the grownup car! She should have the student rustbucket! 

I got over it (really). But it embarrases me that I ever felt it. An Nspot, I guess.

Hops

[Anastasia]

Enjoyed reading everyone's experiences.  So similar to mine.
This HAS to be the most common experience of daughters with a Nmother, I would think.
Of course, the Nmothers feel bad about themselves, feel inferior, insecure, unworthy; otherwise, why would they do it?
Does anyone know of any sites on the net that goes into this subject deeper?  I sure can't find much.

[penelope]

I've always thought both N Mom and N Dad were extremely jealous of any good that happened to me too.   

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((to ALL with a jealous, rotten parent)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Magnolia, thanks and

 

We need to understand that when one of us wins, we all win.

AMENWOMENWOPERSONSDAUGH...

Oh never mind. A-PEOPLE!

Hops

[Overcomer]

For me, I am perceived to be jealous of my mother.  Because she is thinner, more successful, more powerful, etc.  And maybe I am in a way.  I wonder how someone so ugly (on the inside) can be so well thought of.

But more and more in our industry, I am the one who is being asked to do things.  She volunteered for years - and was disappointed when she wasn't selected.........now they are asking me!!!

[Bones]

Hi, y'all!  I'm brand-new here!  I found this board while conducting research on two levels (1) personal and (2) for school.  To make a long story short, I can recall my Nmother showing the green-headed monster one day when I was talking about my Dad who died when I was only four years old.  (He may have been an N too.) 

One of my earliest memories was my sitting on my Dad's shoulders, playing with his curly hair, while he was reading the paper.  For some reason, I was fascinated with the texture and he had a full head of hair.  My Nmother made a nasty comment about how SHE was not allowed to touch his hair and how DARE I be allowed to do so!!  (I was only a baby for God's sake!)  Her reaction made no sense to me at the time.  Putting it in the context of jealousy....now it makes sense.  She was jealous of her own baby!  How twisted is that?

Bones

[Hopalong]

Hi Bones,
Yep. Green-eyed monster. It IS twisted but it's very good you see that.
Another way to see it is a sad thing. What kind of hunger did she have,
that she would be jealous of a little child?

Maybe she got little love or affection from your Dad? Maybe that hurt?
(Not to excuse her being so  mean to you, at all. But just to make her...a person.)

What's your research about?
Are you in college?

What are you studying?

Hopalong

[Bones]

Hi Bones,

Yep. Green-eyed monster. It IS twisted but it's very good you see that.
Another way to see it is a sad thing. What kind of hunger did she have,
that she would be jealous of a little child?

Maybe she got little love or affection from your Dad? Maybe that hurt?
(Not to excuse her being so  mean to you, at all. But just to make her...a person.)

What's your research about?
Are you in college?

What are you studying?

Hopalong

===================================================

Thanks, Hopalong!

There's a L-O-N-G story about my Nmother which stems from her childhood, how she got involved with my father (who was married to someone else at the time their relationship began), and how she treated his daughter, my half-sister until she finally ran away from home.  It goes on to not only the way she treated me, it also includes how she treated my brother until he finally cut off all communication.  (After doing some genealogy, I've been able to see how dysfunctional family behaviors have been transmitted from generation to generation.)

As for your other questions, I'm currently in graduate school specializing in addiction psychology as well as working part-time in a substance abuse treatment facility.  BTW, when I attended a conference with my colleagues from work, I stumbled across a book titled "The Narcissistic Family" by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman.  The more I glanced through the book, the more I found myself nodding as I recognized behaviors from my own family!!! 

(If I may post a question, in relation to mother-daughter jealousy, what about step-parent-step-children jealousy?  I've observed it in my Nmother toward my half-sister and I'm now observing it again on national TV where I am watching a step-father act the fool toward his adolescent step-daughter, especially when he attempted to dictate to her that she was not allowed to have any pictures of her deceased father!  Judge Mablean is about to go off on him BIG TIME!  Is it just me or is it a good feeling with witnessing a Narcissist get his comeuppance from a judge?)

Bones

[Hopalong]

a good feeling with witnessing a Narcissist get his comeuppance from a judge

?

Just you?    Don't think so!

That's a good story...and probably not an uncommon one. Maybe some of the strains in you led you to psychology. And after the shock, the very best thing about discovering what narcissism is, is that then SO MANY THINGS MAKE SENSE. It never fails to shock me how consistent they are, one to another...in spite of big obvious differences as individuals, the core stuff/behaviors nearly always appears.

As to the step-parent question, I think it's a really good one. Why not start a new thread? I think it might be helpful to pull it out.

Welcome, Bones. Glad you're here as a participant, too.

Hops