Author Topic: ways to know a liar  (Read 3646 times)

reallyME

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ways to know a liar
« on: August 03, 2006, 07:08:14 PM »

Someone I spoke to today shared this with me.  Anyone have thoughts or things to add about it?


see it's when you find people like that
  whose body says one thing
  or their words don't agree
 you call them Liars
  or you can discern they are not truthful
 thing is.. they THINK they are truthful

 but they are not truthful because they are DOUBLE MINDED

  keep that in mind
 that they are trying to be truthful
  but that they have not fully convinced themselves
 and now want to convince YOU

Overcomer

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2006, 07:19:24 PM »
I think my mom thinks that if she speaks her rationalizations out loud - they become the truth..............just verbalize them and they become the truth as she knows it.

Ex:  she had a facelift and told everyone at work she was going on vacation.  Then when someone called her on her cellphone she said she was round Branson way.....she was still in town.  When I told her the people didn't appreciate the fact that she had lied to them........................she said she hadn't lied and what business was it of theirs anyway..................yes, she had lied........................but she hadn't lied because it wasn't their concern.
Kelly

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reallyME

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2006, 07:28:06 PM »
I have 1 daughter who is a chronic liar and knows it, and one who is one and denies it, makes excuses, projects and finally makes a joke when she's caught.

penelope

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2006, 07:44:20 PM »
 :)
I googled the psychology of lying...guess what, we all do it (if you're depressed you're less likely to lie however)!  (I do not take credit for this research)


from Psychology Today: The truth about lying
By:Allison Kornet
 
...onthe other hand, the people least likely to lie are those who score high on psychological scales of responsibility and those with meaningful same-sex friendships. In his book Lies! Lies!! Lies!!! The Psychology of Deceit (American Psychiatric Press, Inc.), psychiatrist Charles Ford, M.D., adds depressed people to that list. He suggests that individuals in the throes of depression seldom deceive others--or are deceived themselves--because they seem to perceive and describe reality with greater accuracy than others. Several studies show that depressed people delude themselves far less than their nondepressed peers about the amount of control they have over situations, and also about the effect they have on other people. Researchers such as UCLA psychologist Shelley Taylor, Ph.D., have even cited such findings as evidence that a certain amount of self-delusion--basically, lying to yourself--is essential to good mental health...
 

Stormchild

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 08:19:57 PM »
"Researchers such as UCLA psychologist Shelley Taylor, Ph.D., have even cited such findings as evidence that a certain amount of self-delusion--basically, lying to yourself--is essential to good mental health..."

nothin' healthy about lying to yourself.

I think I might have recommended this book once before but I can't remember. Written by Julie K. Norem, called The Positive Power of Negative Thinking. What she's really advocating - Dr. Norem, that is - is simple realism. See what is, as it is, and make your decisions accordingly.

I'm more of a depressive type myself, and I can guarantee you that much of that depression comes from feeling, so often, as though I'm the only person in my family, at work, or at church, who's seeing things accurately. Who sees below the surface of things. Who is even willing to believe there's more than surface to most things... and that what's under there is often the most important stuff.

That sounds grandiose, and I wish it were. Problem is, time after time, I prognosticate, am disbelieved, and turn out to be 100% bang-on right. So-and-so's new boyfriend does end up being a drug abuser and winds up in jail. This'un, a too-good-to-be-true new manager who's 'all about ideas' turns out to be all-hat-no-cattle, sets up some totally bogus boondoggle project at work and then vanishes into a job at another company, leaving us to clean up after him... That'un, who's just a little tooooo friendly to the ladies IMO,  ends up running off with the deacon's wife.

Unfortunately, this track record of mine doesn't seem to cause anyone to be any more inclined to listen to me the next time around. And no, I don't go waving it around, I don't push it at people, I don't 'toldyaso'. I answer when asked... But you'd think... eventually... one or two people would notice that I generally get it right.

I doubt that this is unique. And who, in this situation, wouldn't be depressed? :roll:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 08:34:34 PM by Stormchild »
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penelope

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 08:31:39 PM »
hi stormy,

I hear ya and I understand, I really do. 

no lie  :shock: 

I mean...I think I understand.  errrr, I don't think I misunderstand...errrr, maybe I don't understand as well as I think.  Heck, I don't know nothin bout what I'm saying anymore!  drat
 :wink:

pb

Stormchild

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 08:37:05 PM »
You're an engineer, pb. Don't you have the same thing, sometimes? I don't know if you're a software, civil, aerospace, ee, or chem.e., but don't you sometimes just know something won't work because it hasn't been designed to meet the demands that are going to be placed on it... and nobody listens to you... in fact, they get ticked at you and want you to shut up [major voiceless trigger there for me!!]

and then it breaks down or blows up just exactly the way you knew it would? And damned if they don't listen to you the next time either, despite all the evidence that you know what you're talking about, and the next thing breaks down and blows up just the same way?

I betcha.

 :wink:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 08:45:52 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

reallyME

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2006, 08:45:46 PM »
I second that emotion, PB...no clue what it even all means

Stormchild

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 10:33:41 PM »
jac, i think we're both what Dr. Norem calls 'defensive pessimists'  - she doesn't mean 'defensive' in the usual 'defense mechanism' sense, but in the sense of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst, so that it can be dealt with more effectively, if it happens.

you might really enjoy her book.

it helped me tremendously to see that others have the same kind of perspective I do and encounter similar challenges because of it. nothing is wrong with the way I think, it works quite well, it's just uncommon.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 11:10:35 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Brigid

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2006, 11:39:24 PM »
Stormy,

I think you're just smarter than the average bear.   :wink:

Brigid

Certain Hope

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2006, 06:40:34 AM »
Stormy,

   But you'd think... eventually... one or two people would notice that I generally get it right.

       I have noticed.

Per Webster, Illusion =   An erroneous perception of reality.
An erroneous concept or belief.
The condition of being deceived by a false perception or belief.
Something, such as a fantastic plan or desire, that causes an erroneous belief or perception


To be disillusioned is to be freed of illusions. Freed by... the truth  :)   To put it another way, it's to be disenchanted... the spell broken, the bewitchment by unreality ended. For some time now, I've taken issue with the term "disillusionment" as it's been shaded in such a negative light, as though it's a sad and woeful thing to have illusions shattered.  I think rather that it's a wonderful thing indeed, to no longer require a web of intricate false-perceptions in order to deal with life. Of course, I also think this is only a positive thing when one knows the One who alone can break the spell.
I remember hearing a ministry message years ago re: witchcraft. This practice of witchcraft is not limited to those who call themselves witches or warlocks. The craft is practiced by all who seek to control reality by manipulation of the truth. At its root, what's condemned in the Bible is any attempt on the part of man to take lordship over another (or even himself?) by playing fast and loose with reality, while excluding his Maker in the process. From my perspective, the "craft" is one of our generation's favorite tools, and it has nothing to do with magic. It's all about deception, delusion, and blindness.

I'm very glad you're disillusioned, Stormy.

Love,
Hope

Stormchild

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2006, 07:36:45 AM »
:oops: umm, thanks jac, and brigid, and hope! :oops:

I guess, on the subject of liars which is where RM started this thread, what I was saying was really that - knowing a liar is only one part of it.

Being in a position to do something about it when you recognize a liar is the bigger part. Whatever it may be. Because not all lies are fully conscious and there's such a range, from kind-hearted white lies to absolutely evil-intended blatant dishonesty. So what you do depends on what it is...

Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all... just disengage. Sometimes you need to actively pack up your stuff and leave the room. But sometimes it's necessary to set limits. When that's the case, it's very frustrating to be the only one aware and trying. I guess that's the point I was making. It's nice to know I'm not alone either in my perception there, in my life experiences at work and so on, or in the frustration I've experienced because of it.

Many thanks again for the kindness. It helps tremendously. :oops:
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 07:39:43 AM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

seeker

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2006, 07:18:43 PM »
Storm...

  "it helped me tremendously to see that others have the same kind of perspective I do and encounter similar challenges because of it. nothing is wrong with the way I think, it works quite well, it's just uncommon."

Count one more who has similar perspectives as you!

seeker

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2006, 07:24:05 PM »
Hope,

As I've mentioned before, I am relatively new to this board and I just want you to know that the more I read your posts, the more respect I have for your words.  You "walk the walk".....thank you.

Stormchild

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Re: ways to know a liar
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2006, 07:16:48 PM »
seeker, I thanked you on another thread for remembered kindness, somewhere. it was this kindness, here.

thank you again --
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com