Author Topic: How to "love oneself"??  (Read 3305 times)

tavia

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How to "love oneself"??
« on: September 06, 2006, 09:45:41 AM »
I have been reading some of the posts in here, and many have commented that to love others, one has to love oneself..

How does one "learn to" love oneself, especially when one has never even thought about it before?

I ask because I am a N who has recently discovered what a B**ch I have been to those around me... :shock:

HELP...

Brigid

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2006, 12:14:07 PM »
Welcome Tavia,
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that you are n--is that self-diagnosis, or did a therapist tell you that?  We all have n traits--some are healthy and some not so healthy, but just being a b***h hardly makes you personality disordered.  God knows, I have had some pretty bit**y moments in my life and have not always been kind to those around me.

For someone who is truly n, the concept of loving oneself is almost unattainable without extreme psychological intervention.  Even though n's appear to be full of themselves, deep down, they truly loath themselves and have no capacity to love anyone, much less themselves.

For those of us raised by n's, married or otherwise having had relationships with them, or however else our lives have been affected by them, learning to feel worthy of loving yourself is a long, slow process.  It usually needs the help of a professional to get to those deep seated wounds and heal them before the self-love can begin to occur.

If you feel comfortable doing so, you may want to share more of your story so others can relate to your pain and help you find a way to heal.  All in your own time, however.

Brigid

reallyME

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2006, 12:21:40 PM »
Quote
Brigid: For someone who is truly n, the concept of loving oneself is almost unattainable without extreme psychological intervention.  Even though n's appear to be full of themselves, deep down, they truly loath themselves and have no capacity to love anyone, much less themselves.

This is so true and right ON!  They portray themselves as successful and happy, but upon getting really close up and personal with them, you soon see the critical and self-condemning side underneath the surface BS that they show to everyone on the outside.

The N in my life, when I got to spend time at her house, turned me into "little Jodi" and became the neglectful, punishing mother that her mother was to her.  It was a very odd situation, being that I am actually older than Jodi, but, in order to survive and remain sane, you learn to go along with the facade and not make waves or rock the family secret-hoarding boat.  I had to eventually realize that these people have lived this way for  YEARS, and one person visiting and speaking OUT against the abuse I saw, was NOT going to magically make them SEE that treating people like this is WRONG, treating children like you OWN them, is WRONG, living your life through your children is WRONG, picking friends that you can control and dominate and USE is WRONG, discarding people when they don't measure up to your undefined goals is WRONG...being selfish, conceited and overly Narcissistic is WRONG...they couldn't SEE because they are too PROGRAMMED to.

Sela

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 12:22:23 PM »
Hi Tavia:

Welcome to you!  Here's a link that might help:

http://www.seamless-web.net/howto.htm

It sounds like you might be feeling ashamed of some of your behaviour.  Do you feel sorry and do you want to make amends for whatever harm you've caused?

Talk some more if you like.

 :D Sela

2bbetter

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 05:13:56 AM »
I'm throwing my 2 cents in here, hopefully it'll get kicked around a bit & I welcome the feedback cos It'd be nice to know if I'm on a weird track or not:

Was thinking along the lines of someone genuinely asking for a step by step approach to something they must feel pretty shit about not having worked out as a tweener... and has lived their lives as a mirror of others in many ways just to fit in yet narcisitically been a brighter mirror also. A combination of codependence and N overcompensation in a way....

Anyway, I digressed, so:

Ask yourself: "IF I DID HAVE MY OWN SET OF VALUES, BELIEFS, CHARACTER, PERSONALITY... WHAT WOULD THEY BE?"

Then realise that they came from YOU cos you asked YOURSELF

Talk about them if in any doubt with people you really admire for their emotional courage, they will help you.

Write them down, read them before going to sleep to plug them into the reptilian brain overnight, bloody well recite them every morning as a mantra if need be !

EMBRACE THEM, CHERISH THEM, LIVE THEM BY LIVING BY THEM

Forgive yourself for not doing so before, you were never in as good a place as you are now to look for them before (too busy 'surviving' I bet)


You had to learn a lot of stuff the hard way before, but now you know what hurts and what doesn't. Even though you didn't feel others hurts before, they've kinda piled up too big to ignore now isn't it.

Every now and then someone comes along and smacks you in the head with a piece of 4by2. Its your WAKE UP ! call.

Sounds like your fiance M is yours, & you are also his !

Good luck with your new path, stick on it, dont dawdle & dont run too fast either :) :wink:

Stormchild

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2006, 07:05:59 AM »
Hi Tavia, and welcome!

There is a cherished belief that if you think you might be narcissistic, that means you cannot be, because a true narcissist would never raise the question.

I have known several true narcissists who not only raised the question, but actually used the issue defensively. This is what Eric Berne called the game of "Wooden Leg": as in: "Well, I'm an X. What do you expect from someone who is an X? Of course I behave abominably. I'm entitled to."

Vaknin comes to mind; and others, including a woman I worked with who was utterly infantile in her demonstrations and demands, and when confronted would burst into tears and claim that because of her lousy awful childhood, she was so damaged that nobody had the right to expect better from her.

Hogwash.

Why I am saying this is not to say that you are a narcissist. Rather, to say that all of us are narcissistic to some extent. Every human being. There's a healthy level of self-protective narcissism that we each need. So we are all narcissists, to some degree, in some times and places, and many of us are indeed aware of the fact! Thinking you might be one, in spots, doesn't mean you aren't, in exactly those spots, in other words.

After all, we also want to believe that it is possible to recover from narcissism, and nobody can recover from any problem or condition if they're unable to comprehend or admit that they have it.

That being said - it's entirely possible that you have some spots that you'll want to change and some spots that are actually beneficial to you, once you get a clear look at them. It isn't clearcut black and white - there are lots of grey tones to this. Which makes it a challenge but also makes it interesting.
****

In my opinion - to truly love yourself requires the ability to accept yourself as you are right now.

This doesn't mean blind approval of everything. It means you sit and look at yourself without fear, without excuses, without evasion, and you see what's there, both good and not so good, and you accept that all of these things are part of who you are... and you do your level best to make peace with that, before you try to do anything else. [In the 12 Steps this is the 'searching and fearless moral inventory' part. It's there for a reason.]

You can't change what you don't really understand, and you can't really understand what you haven't faced. Since you describe yourself with the b-word, I'm guessing that you think you may have behaved abusively towards people in the past, and are now beginning to recognize it. I could be wrong, I have been before, wouldn't be the first time. But assuming that's where you are, this is certainly something that can be changed. People change this part of themselves every day. A lot of them get help, but help is available. There are anger management classes, and counseling options for people who want to learn better ways of expressing dissatisfaction to their spouse or partner...

here is a web site for people of all ages, very rich in information and not at all judgmental!

http://www.angriesout.com/

here's a list of resources - not restricted to anger management, it just starts there

http://www.heartsandminds.org/self/links/angermanagement.htm

the reason I'm offering these links is simple. People who have studied this area have found that as a person learns better ways to deal with the things that 'set them off', they also come to a much better understanding of themselves, and they're able to accept who they are and who they were - because they are in the process of making positive changes. This is a really effective way to work on your ability to love yourself.

Who would have thought it? But it works.

I hope this helps, I hope you find good things at these links that will encourage you. The biggest factor is to be honest with yourself about yourself. When you're doing that, you're making progress always.

Hugs and best wishes!
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2bbetter

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2006, 01:39:39 AM »
I am not trying to make excuses for me past behaviour.. it has taken me ages to even recognise and acknowledge that I have not done the right things so many times in the past..

Having talked about it, I think one of the reasons why I have become such a horrid person is the lack of the abitlity to love myself. I read what many have written here and to be honest,  envy all those who can and have loved themselves, because in so doing, they can "give" themselves to others wholeheartedly.

An Ex once said to me that if there were 25 squares to be crossed before he can see "ME', he felt that he could only get to the 24th square at the most. So there must be something lacking in me, and if that is so, how come most of you can overcome that but I cannot??

It is so frustrating..

In addition to that, I know that I have to somehow make up for what I have said/done, and because we are dealing with emotions here, it is such a diificult thing to do. How much is doing "enough"? I get me partner always telling me that I am not doing "enough", and I must be really lacking in effort, although I feel that I have tried a lot harder than I have ever done so in my entire life!!! How much IS adequate??

Healing is painful, and although I recognise that it is the right thing to do, it is still very difficult and very painful!!!

Each day is a roller-coaster ride and I am struggling. I am struggling with feelings of horror (at myself), with guilt (A LOT OF IT), with knowing I have to make amends and not feeling that I am doing an adequate job, with being tired... it is such a struggle!

I guess I should not expect too much sympathy here, for afterall, it is a site really for victims of Ns to find some support and here's an N having a rant.. arghhh!!!!

I feel lost and discouraged and helpless. I really do.  :(


2bbetter

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 04:19:28 AM »
Hey everyone  :)

The previous post was actually by Tavia... She used my PC just now & I was still logged on

sorry if any confusion.

BJ

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2006, 08:43:44 AM »
Tavia:
Quote
An Ex once said to me that if there were 25 squares to be crossed before he can see "ME', he felt that he could only get to the 24th square at the most. So there must be something lacking in me, and if that is so, how come most of you can overcome that but I cannot??
Good Morning Tavia, and welcome.
After giving some thought to what your EX may have meant about that 25th square...to me, I think maybe it's a wall--and not anything lacking. On the contrary, maybe it's actually too much?  He didn't say you have 24 squares, he just couldn't get beyond it to the 25th. Wow, he got all the way to 24! If you think about that for a minute, what does that mean to you? I'll wait a minute for you to think before I continue.............................Is it fear, defensiveness, a childhood response not relative to today, protection or over-protection...and misconstude, hurt, and ya, fear? How about fair? I think while working on the break-down of my own wall, I realized that I misunderstood amore for amour. Once I was willing to release some of my armour, amore was freer to be. So, maybe you just need to be brave? Take a chance...on someone you trust and see what happens. Maybe that EX did you a big favor? 

I suspect your feelings are not much different than the rest of us here, therefore, you can and will move in the direction to overcome. It is hard and difficult and slow...but as long as you're moving, you're on your way. You are here and that's a great beginning. After many years, I'm still learning not to expect so much of myself. I must take the time to ackowledge my assets and not only push them aside and work on the defects of my personality.
Sure it’s difficult and a struggle. But remember, pain is really and opportunity in disguise. It’s life’s way of making us see what needs readjustment. What may have worked yesterday may not work today.
So, can we embrace pain with open objectivity?
Find someone you trust and be willing, open, objective, gentle, honest with yourself and them, and trusting of love’s path. It seems you may have that someone in 2bbetter, right next to you (--and/or a caring therapist). Oh ya, and you have YOU, too. Take care and remember to go gentle and slow. It works! I felt like you and now I feel better...not best, but much better. Be well and be here--we are.  BJ








Sela

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2006, 10:22:20 AM »
Hi Tavia:

These words caught me too and I want to argue them:

Quote
An Ex once said to me that if there were 25 squares to be crossed before he can see "ME', he felt that he could only get to the 24th square at the most. So there must be something lacking in me,


I disagree.  If your ex can't see you and all of your squares, what makes you so sure it's your problem.  Maybe he needs his eyesight checked?  Maybe you are revealing yourself openly and he is the one who is unable to see?  Why did you believe what he said?


Quote
and if that is so, how come most of you can overcome that but I cannot??

I disagree again.  Even if that is so, isn't it possible that it's not that you can't overcome whatever is causing a blockage....but rather....that you have not overcome, have not decided to overcome, have not yet learned how to overcome it?

Just for you to think about.   It just sounds like you are taking on all responsibility.  I bet you're not half as rotten as you think you are!  :wink:

Sela

tavia

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2006, 12:53:11 AM »
remember to go gentle and slow. It works!

go slow?? how to go slow? everyday i wake up to pressure to do more, think more, feel more... i am trying to do more to feel more to think more but it is not as easy as some people can do it!!!!! just cas someone has spent their whole lives being open etc etc etc, they cannot see how difficult it is to even dio a fraction of what they do!!!

it has been barely 3 months since i started recognising and acknowleding that i have not lived right, and all of a sudden, because i now can see some light, i should be light a dam that has been broken and all the stuff that have been kept inside should suddenly all come gushing out. well, it is not like that at all. on one hand, I have been told to take baby steps, then the next moment, i am not talking enough, thinking enough etc etc etc.

Even if that is so, isn't it possible that it's not that you can't overcome whatever is causing a blockage....but rather....that you have not overcome, have not decided to overcome, have not yet learned how to overcome it?

you are so right, i feel that there is a blockage and i feel the overwhelming pressure every day to overcome that blockage. it's like me trying to teach one of my students to solve a maths sum, and becoming mad with the child because he cannot solve it.. why cant he see that the solution to the sum is so easy??? but it is difficult for the child, yet i sometimes find it so hard to understand why and then get mad with the child for not being to do something that i can do so easily.

it is the same principle. i may be in my 30s but really, at that emotional level, i am still a kid. we never talked about feelings growing up, unless it was anger, and i wish, i so so wish that i can just talk about feelings but it is hard!! and i feel all the time that if i were to be seen to not be doing SOMETHING at all times to be trying to solve this problem, I am not trying at all.

i did not join this forum because i want to be seen as "trying to do something"  to others, i came here because i hope that perhaps, in the course of discussion, i can somehow discover why i have this blockage, what it really is, and maybe i can then finally know how to overcome it.











Gaining Strength

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2006, 01:23:05 AM »
discover why i have this blockage, what it really is, and maybe i can then finally know how to overcome it.

My experience has been that once I can ID the blockage then it becomes very clear why I have it.  The steps to overcoming it unfold once it is identified but they nfold slowly and it is painful and can feel as though it is just wallowing in pain without progress.

Block out some time when you can be quiet and uninterrupted.  Sit quietly and ask the question, "What is this blockage?"  Then, using meditation if you meditate, or prayer if you pray or just sitting quietly, repeating the question to yourself.  You will get a little stirring in your mind and at first you may try to dismiss it for a variety of reasons.  But just ask, "Is this it?  Is this the blockage?"  and you will get an answer.  It will come like knowing something.  Try this and see.  I have had great success with this technique.

Yours - Gaining Strength

Hopalong

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2006, 02:00:37 AM »
Hi Tavia,
I just want to say I think you can follow ideas offered here at your own pace or not at all, some will "click" for you and some may feel overwhelming.

Maybe one of the first things for you to feel is your right to set your own pace. Trust yourself.

It was your OWN awakening awareness that has led you this far.

Here, we're just to help each other. We do give advice (me too!) and sometimes quite vehemently.

But don't worry. Your own inner wholeness is what you're walking with. You'll learn to take what is helpful and leave the rest. I think this might be one of your first experiences with boundaries?

We're all in the same marathon, hon. Some are sprinters, some turtles, but the earth under all our feet is the same.

Welcome. (And horrible people don't go to very deep-natured forums and share that feeling. Truly horrible people are still enjoying their horribleness, and you're not.)

I wish you every bit of support, but no pressure, as you find your way to the happiness underneath. You will.

Hopalong
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BJ

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2006, 08:49:34 AM »
Quote
it has been barely 3 months since i started recognising and acknowleding that i have not lived right, and all of a sudden, because i now can see some light, i should be light a dam that has been broken and all the stuff that have been kept inside should suddenly all come gushing out. well, it is not like that at all. on one hand, I have been told to take baby steps, then the next moment, i am not talking enough, thinking enough etc etc etc.
Tavia,
Everything in your own time is exactly how you will see and find what works.  I hear my past self in some of your words. I have learned, (and am still learning and need to remember), that we are only given what we can handle. If we are given too much at one time, we would miss many important lessons and it could also be overwhelming. When I said to just go slow, I meant for you to not be too hard on yourself. You will know what feels right and you will learn to let this guide you. NO ONE can tell you what's right for you. We can only offer stories and experiences that may or may not apply for you--but, to know we care about you and about your suffering...hopefully you can find some comfort in that.  I have found that when I feel heard and understood, pain is not what is paramount anymore. Then, my feeling of being alone with my personal trauma begins to diminish...and I could begin to see pieces of a better place. It was a relief when I learned that there are many people with the same unique traits and feelings. Maybe I'm not so unique after all...I just have my own story and mind. You are truly not alone here.

Gaining Strength

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Re: How to "love oneself"??
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2006, 01:26:03 PM »
I thought about you yesterday Tavia as I practised "loving myself."

My current concept comes from Wayne Dyar's, "The Power of Intention."  As I experienced negative emotions; shame, fear, self loathing, I simply addressed them, calling them by name.  I am feelling Fear.  Fear you are destructive to me.  I reject you in favor love.  Fear you cannot exist in the presence of love. 

This is a small step.  It is eradicating an ANT (automatic negative thought) colony, one ANT at a time.  It may be a slow process but it is deliberate and I will win out.

That's just one possibility for learnig to love ourselves.  Good luck to you and to all of us.

Gaining Strength