Author Topic: N as Sabateur  (Read 9089 times)

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
N as Sabateur
« on: September 21, 2006, 10:34:20 AM »
This is for everyone and for Chris 2's list.

Ns sabotage those who cross their paths - their spouse, their children, their colleagues.

My mother has an annoying habit that fits this description.  For example, yesterday evening I stopped by for 20 minutes while my son was at a church program.  We talked about her dieing sister and related issues.  Time for me to go.  I stand up and she says, "I need to talk to you about something."  She waits until I stand to go.  She does this almost everytime I see her, my entire life.  My mother is NEVER late and she scorns me my habitual tardiness.  But she does not mind sabataging my efforts to be punctual.  Sometimes she waits until I get into the car and then she comes to the door and says she has to talk to me.  If I stop, get out of the car and come back to her house sometimes all she says is, "I forgot to say I love you."  Such a ridiculous power play.  Yesterday I told her to call me about whatever she needed to talk about. 

This is such a gnat of an example.  The real example in my life is THE issue of my life.  It has just emerged and I am having a hard time putting it out here.  In recent months I finally unraveled what I thought was "fear of failure" to find what I had long denied was actually "fear of success".  Yesterday, my therapist gave it a different name - sabatage.  He and I went through a list of how my father and brother have sabataged my work, my jobs, my financial well being time after time. Last night I knew I was falling into a depression but it was only this morning that I connected it with Sabotage. 

The Kronos effect
It is as though I have been eaten whole by my N father.  To fully realize, to have someone with some objecivity (my therapist) acknowledge the reality of my destruction at the hands of those closest by blood is annihilating.

laid low - will rise from ashes - GS

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 11:32:25 AM »
Here's an example out of today's NYT:

re: Ellen Barkin and Ron Perelman
"Mr. Perelman, she said, was attracted to her because she was a movie star, but objected when she wanted to keep making films." "she said that Mr. Perelman did not want her away from his side for the months it takes to make a movie, so except for small parts, she put her career on hold. ... Some 18 months ago, Ms Barkin accepted a cameo in 'Ocean's Twelve,' ... a role requiring her to spend 36 hours on a film set in Chicago.  Her part was later cut, but it caused a rupture in the marriage, she said: 'That had enormous repercussions.  After that cameo I moved out of the house with my children So it didn't go well.  It never went smoothly when I worked.'"

Certain Hope

  • Guest
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 10:18:24 PM »
Hi GS,

  Until very near the end, I didn't see NPD ex-husband's screw-ups as sabotage, but I now believe that's what it was. Once he knew for sure that I'd seen who he really is, he didn't bother to hide it anymore.

   I'm finding that I need to be cautious to not continue giving so much stuff to some of this old stuff. Seems it still has the power to take me into a frame of mind where I'd rather not be... but I just wanted to confirm that ~ yup ~ sabotage was one of N's favorite weapons. Everything from ruining a meal (when it wasn't one of his favorite dishes) to making us late for an important event to using the wrong materials in a remodeling project which later fell apart. I know it was intentional. Oh, he especially liked to begin a project which only he could finish and then leave it hanging... a royal mess... knowing full well that there was nothing I could do about it.
The more we tripped over it, the dirtier it made our home, the more everyone in the vicinity was inconvenienced... the better he liked it. Oh, that man could smirk. Ugh.

((((((GS)))))))  I think I'm done thinking about him for eternity.

Love,
Hope

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 10:24:54 PM »
GS...
FABULOUS job on telling your mom to call you to let you know what she had to say.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 10:37:52 PM »
Thank you Miss Beth!! 
It felt good.  No meanness, no anger.  Just Direct and it worked. 
Who could ask for anything more. 
Thanks for pointing that out.  I'll hold it as a sign and an encouragement.

your friend - Gaining Strength

gratitude28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2582
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 10:40:49 PM »
I've found, GS, that when I deal with my mother calmly and firmly as you did, the control incidences decrease. Doesn't mean she doesn't come out with a doozy once in a while, but if it's not working to get at me, she quits the little stuff.
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13631
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2006, 05:27:44 PM »
GS....
Wow. How did you meet my Mom? I have been frustrated by this EXACT behavior with Ma for years, decades. Her little technique, which I always yielded to because I was taught to be so POLITE, is to let me have a chat with her, listen to her, arrange for her present needs and then head out of the room. Just as I cross the threshold she'd say, "Ummmmm...." (As in, I have a continuing thought I want to say....) and I'd hang in mid-air, or turn back, and she'd ask for more attention, usually trumped up. I watched my father leap and dance to this cue for 50 years so I learned it well.

Now I take care of her, but when I leave, I LEAVE. Unless it's a cry of pain, I play deaf and keep walking. Amazingly, it's worked. She issues "Ummm...s" a whole lot less often.

GOOD for you for telling your mother to just call. Bravo!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Plucky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2006, 05:59:04 PM »
Yes, sabotage seems to be the primary tool of my mother and my estranged husband.    With my mother, she tends to exhort me continually to rest and take time for myself while asking me to do her little errands, usually something veyr time-consuming and of dubious value.

I just go ahead and agree, and then make a very half-hearted effort.  When I fail to come through, as planned, I have good excuses why I could not stay on hold for 45 minutes to change her reservation.  I say that the kids are so demanding and I am so tired and I tried but bla bla bla......eventually she gives up and takes back the task.   When she makes her visit reservations at the very time I have told her repeatedly that we will be away, I do not offer any kind of change, responsibility, or even sympathy,  I just listen to her complaints about how she will have to pay more and then repeat the dates, ask if she has it now and can she tell me when she has changed it.

With my H, it is not that simple, since the tasks are all very present and necessary. So, I basically withdraw from him.  If he is too unwilling to take good care of the kids, I just take them away for an all day outing and he does not see them, and I will do this as many times as it takes or until I drop from exhaustion.  He finally got it and is more willing to look after them while I do errands, and all the fun (not) things I have to do.  If he is inconsiderate, I wait until he sits down and then tell him he needs to serve his own plate, or for every message he forgets to pass on, I forget to pass one on too.

I guess this is wicked and evil but it works for me!

Plucky

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2006, 07:26:12 PM »
Quote
when I leave, I LEAVE. Unless it's a cry of pain, I play deaf and keep walking.
It's the only way to not play into the passive aggressiveness.

Quote
I just listen to her complaints about how she will have to pay more and then repeat the dates,
LOL Plucky That's all you can do in response to that behavior - LOL
GS

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2006, 08:56:26 PM »


Dear GS,

Sabotage/narcissism...two names for the same thing!  :(

teartracks

(((((((((((((((((((((((((supersized hugs for GS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2006, 10:37:45 PM »
Quote
Sabotage/narcissism...two names for the same thing!
Really!! I never knew that. How did you know that?

Quote
(((((((((((((((((((((((((supersized hugs for GS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you so much.  I really needed that!!

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2006, 10:46:12 PM »



GS,

I don't know if I know that! 

I do  know  that inside a narcissist lives a sabateur...

You're welcome.

teartracks

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2006, 10:51:58 PM »
Yes I see.  They hate themselves and so they must destroy everyone else - even their own children.  And the only people who get it are the few of the wounded who have found out what an N parent is and does.  It is so crazy that living it doesn't even make it believable.  That's my greatest wound - that my father wants to be sure that I have nothing good or wonderful in my life.  That's the wound I just figured out and that's the wound I most need to heal to get on with repairing my life.

Still baffling to me - I'm just shaking me head. - GS

penelope

  • Guest
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2006, 11:43:27 AM »
hi GS,

Thanks for the reminder!

p bean

Gaining Strength

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3992
Re: N as Sabateur
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2006, 02:52:16 PM »
Quote
Healing from this seems like a huge undertaking. Other people have
career success so apparently easily. Confidence in the world. I dont know
if I will ever have this, but that doubt is not going to stop me
from trying!
I often have felt jealous of those whose dysfunctional family led them to be OVERachievers because at least  they got some accolades from society at large.  My whole life I have heard how much potential I had but I have never been able to live up to it.  But finally I know why - because to succeed would have been to threaten my well being, i.e. my belonging in family.  This whole threat was so deeply suppressed and would be denied by all.   But now I see how real this sabotage is and having seen it I can heal from it.  As the healing comes I know I can begin to experience success.  I am sure of it.

Quote
Did your mother give you much attention?
Essentially NO.  My mother has strong N traits and definitely sabotages me but I have never been as hooked into her as I was my father. - GS
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 01:08:20 AM by Gaining Strength »