I feel trapped

[steve]

Hello All:

As I have mentioned before, I am the adult son of a narcissist. I have two primary areas of interaction with my father that cause me great distress.

The first area has to do with interpersonal boundaries. Through several confrontations last year I made it abundantly clear to him that I demand to be treated as a person and not as his possession. To his credit, he has shown some movement in this direction, but we have had limited contact as of late. He seems to understand that if he crosses a certain line, he will feel my wrath. I am not sure how long this will last. I suspect, the next time he feels any sort of pressure he will attempt to use me again to achieve his desired ends. However, I am sure that I can finally stand up to him, and I will not put my life behind his. This area of our relationship seems to have been solved last year, at least as far as I am concerned.

The area in which I have great difficulty is in listening to what he says. Let me elaborate. Perhaps I am at fault here because I misread what he is trying to say. However, I doubt this. I am a very intelligent person and I do believe that I am also very perceptive.

He has several tricks in his arsenal and I am not sure what they are intended to be used for. The first trick is to always talk about other people I grew up with and say how well they seem to be doing. I take this as him comparing them to me and trying to shame me into acknowledging that they have succeeded where I have failed. He never seems to mention that all these people were able to focus on running their own lives and did not have the family business dumped on them to run while they were trying to establish their own careers. Nonetheless, everytime he mentions one of these people, and it tends to be at least once every time we meet, I just shrink in my seat and feel like a failure. Then, I am told, when he is around his friends, he will brag about how smart I am and about the things I am able to accomplish. But please note, he has never complemented me ONCE in my life, or thanked me for any help I have given him, or said anything positive about me in my presence. I am serious, not once have I ever heard a compliment from him. So tell me, what is the purpose of this little trick of his? Is it to make me jealous and want to do great things?

I really don't understand, help me understand this issue. And also help me understand why I let this bother me. The ironic thing is that many of these people were given assistance by me in achieving their success in one form or other, though I in no way claim that I was responsible for their success. However, I never go around and say what I have done for them because that is not my nature. I was happy to help out and if things were done in confidence, they remained that way.

I will leave it at that and see if I can get some feedback from this group. As you can imagine, my self-esteem is shattered and it always has been. Why do I let such a pathetic individual do such harm to me. Please help me get beyond this because I really do not know how much longer I can last.

Thanks,

Steve

[Portia]

Hi again Steve, I remember you and your Dad from before.

I don't have much time right now but having read your post once only, my guess is that your Dad is afraid of you.

I mean it! It might sound counter-intuitive (how can he be afraid of me when he treats me so badly?) but fear is usually at the root of this type of behaviour.

Please know that you are not the sum total of what your parent thinks of you.

You are what you think of you; and you can change your received ideas for some more realistic ones.

Like: you're a really bright man Steve, no-one can take that away from you

Why do you let him bother you? Because you're a thinking, feeling human. Isn't that a good thing to be? i think so. ((((((((((((((((Steve)))))))))))))))

[Overcomer]

Steve:  Your dad seems to be as my mom is........................when my ex and I got back together after splitting and another couple at church were in the same boat, my mom said to me "afterall, Greg and Lori are always in church......................"  Meaning?  You two are not in church.  My mom (and probably your dad) are afraid to come right out and say something to you so they go at if from the backdoor - problem is - we get the jab and it makes us mad.....we would probably be better off if they came right to the point and said, "I think you guys would get back on track better if you attended church a little more - you might hear some teaching that could help you........"  or something like that.....

Anyway, congrats on setting some boundaries - that always helps..................know that it is not in an Ns makeup to give you positive feedback - that is something that only they can receive!!  Can't take the attention away from them!!!

But feel lucky that he compliments you in front of others - I think my mom says negative things about me!!

[Hopalong]

Steve...

It has helped me a great deal to look at my mother not only in terms of her personality problems, but in terms of her generation, and what she was likely to have learned from her particular family.

I think what's hurting you so much is that you are taking it so very, very personally.

What if most of it wasn't? Is it possible your father learned from his own father that "Real Men":

--don't need praise
--don't need fatherly affection or touch
--don't need verbal, spoken acknowledgment
--are never weak
--are never emotional

If he DID learn this (and perhaps the hard way) from his own father, Steve, it really isn't all about YOU.
It's him. His own limits, as he learned them.

Would it help any to try hard to pull back mentally and just see him as a person? Even if you can only do it for a little while?

It's really helped me. Even asking her questions about her childhood has helped me detach from her reactions to me.

Hops

[gratitude28]

Hi Steve,
My mother also does this to me. She thinks my choice of education is weird and worthless (I was a Russian major). She thought it was ridiculous that I enjoyed living there. Yet other people always say she speaks highly of me. She thinks anything she likes I would never like and vice versa. And my sister is the one who is perfect to her... a doctor.... They helped her do everything and helped me with nothing and think she is the smartest person that ever lived and that I am just around to support my husband, take care of my kids and be a second-rate-whatever. That's when she's not calling me a snotty Ms. Perfect. I have so many weird alter-egos when it comes to her, I am never sure which one I am to her at that moment.
So, welcome, Steve. It's annoying and frustrating, but people here will help you start to understand and formulate reactions...
Love,
Beth

[tavia]

Hi Steve,

just want to drop a quick few lines to let you know that you are not alone..

my dad does that all the time - he would compare me to his friends' children (most of whom i have not even met for 20 years or so) and let me know what a failure i am and yet when i wasn't around, he would sing my praises to his friends..

once, i bought him some dessert (had to go out of my way to get them for him) and when he saw what i had bought, he berated me for having wasted money and time to go all the way to get them, and ate them grudgingly.. and then his pal rang and he was on the phone telling him how his daughter had gone and bought him some dessert etc etc etc. i was so mad and confused then!!!! but now i know better..

i guess one way to get out of feeling awful is to minimise contact with him.. i found that since i had minimised visits, and contact, slowly, but surely his opinions really don't matter as much to me as they used to.. and that's bizzare coming from someone who HAD to score more than 90 for every test and exam I had ever taken to please him.. yet, when i scored, say, 97 marks, i was told off for having been careless and wasted the last 3 marks..

ah well, there is just no pleasing some poeple!!!

((((((Steve))))))


TaVia

[Hopalong]

Hi Tavia,
Ooo I know this one.

when he saw what i had bought, he berated me for having wasted money and time to go all the way to get them, and ate them grudgingly..

I think not only are Nish people terrible gift givers, but terrible gift receivers, too.

I take little pleasure in giving my mother gifts, because it rarely passes without her saying, oh, no, you shouldn't have, and throttling her pleasure in it so it's hard to enjoy the act of giving. She says a muted thank-you, but nothing spontaneous.

The behavior looks as though she's being self-effacing (oh I don't deserve gifts) but the feeling is more that she's not letting me "shine" for having gotten the gift JUST RIGHT (even though I often do). It's like, oh, I won't give you the gift of receiving your gift with enthusiasm!

It is more pleasurable when I occasionally give her flowers spontaneously. She is moved by their beauty and I feel more appreciated. On expected occasions, it's a dud.

Hops

[reallyME]

Then, I am told, when he is around his friends, he will brag about how smart I am and about the things I am able to accomplish. But please note, he has never complemented me ONCE in my life, or thanked me for any help I have given him, or said anything positive about me in my presence. I am serious, not once have I ever heard a compliment from him. So tell me, what is the purpose of this little trick of his? Is it to make me jealous and want to do great things?

Have you asked him why he does that or have you pointed it out to him?  If so, what is his reaction?

~Laura

[steve]

Laura:

I have asked him once why he could never tell me that I did something well. His answer was a sarcastic "what am I supposed to do, clap at everything you do". He even made the hand gesture. As you can imagine, I just walked away in disbelief.

Another time I told him that I have issues in my life because he could never give me praise when I deserved it and because of that i had low self-esteem. He then said, don't you know what I say, haven't people told you. It's as if he expects people to be so impressed that he said it about me that they should then tell me that his highness praises me. You get this one too, I believe.

Anyways, these things bother me alot and I am trying to put them behind me. But the story is deeper and deeper.

One time he read a journal of mine in which I was basically saying what a piece of crap he was. He then told me that he read it and he couldn't understand why I would write such a thing. What could I say? Just go back and read what was said in the journal and you will understand.

Anyways, I have come to accept that he lives in his own little personal fairy tale and I have to look deep in to my soul and start to value myself for who I see not for what others see.

Here is another little gem. As I mentioned in my original post, I have done great things for my parents in terms of financial security at a personal sacrifice to myself. And what is my reward, well, my sisters have constantly received financial assistance from my parents while I have received absolutely nothing. And now, as I am planning the final deal in the hope that I can finally leave them to fend for themselves, they have mentioned that they want the proceeds to go to my sister because they have not done enough for her.

Of course, it does not matter that she lives in a 1.5 million dollar house while I continue to rent a crappy apartment. It doesn't matter that it was always me making the sacrifices so that my parents can live a comfortable life while my sisters were free to do what they wished. No, they must help her out and who cares about Steve.

This last one really hurts. I mean, I did not ask for anything. All I wanted was for them to be secure so that I can finally be free to live my own life. But instead, they would rather help someone out who is doing infinitely better than I am and they do not seem to have any concern about my living arrangements.

So, this is my life. Not very pretty, but I have also refrained from putting more stories here because it just gets me more down.

But, now I am ready to fight and every day I wake and struggle to get what I want. The sad thing is that I can accomplish almost anything. The only thing I have difficulty in doing is believing in myself.

Steve

[Plucky]

Steve, my heart goes out to you. I can relate to all you have said.    From what I can tell, you are an unselfish, giving, successful, hardworking person.  When you realise this and get to be around others who can reflect your true worth back to you (this board is a start) you will begin to heal from all the hurts.

From my experience,  What Will Not Work is to try to get an explanation or validation from the person who harmed you.  Only more hurt is coming from that direction.  If you keep going to that well, you are still going to drink the poisoned water.

Anyways, I have come to accept that he lives in his own little personal fairy tale and I have to look deep in to my soul and start to value myself for who I see not for what others see.

And I think you know this.

The only thing is, you wrote "others".  The person here is one person with a skewed outlook and unfortunate power over you and the formation of your ego.   He is one person in the universe.  There are many out there who can see you clearly.  Do not continue to look in his warped looking-glass.  Turn away.

The best thing I learned to do before I even knew it, was to tune out.  Practice not even hearing.  Does he really ever say anything of value?

If you cannot do this, reframe.  If he praises others, think of how it would sound if he were normal.  It would just be a comment, and not a hurting jab in your sore spot.  Try to react to it in this way.  It really does not matter one iota how he means it, because he is sick and twisted.  Do not get on his train.    Walk your own way.

The other thing is, give yourself permission to express that  burning rage inside.   You have to get it out.

an inarticulate but trying
Plucky

[gratitude28]

Steve,
I pay for everything to do with my parents... phone calls, sometimes airline tickets, place to stay, most meals out, etc. and they pay for everything with my sister, who is a Doctor and now making tons of money. For my wedding, I slept on my couch while my parents stayed in my apt and I paid for everything. My parents had a lavish ceremony for my sister in a hotel. Of course, there is always an explanation for it. And everything I do at work, they act like I am working beneath my abilities, even when I tell them I can rewrite stuff on the computer. My dad says, "yeah, right" and tries to dumb me down. He loves to play that game.
Love to you Steve and patience while you work through all this... We are always here if you want to vent...
Love, Beth

[Hopalong]

Beth,
I AM VERY, SERIOUSLY IMPRESSED WITH YOUR SKILLS!

Shame on your father for not affirming you. He's jealous, threatened, iinsecure.

You are the grownup, sad to say. But it's a better way to be.

Hops

[gratitude28]

Thanks hops!
I didn't meant to get on a "me" tear, I was trying to give you, Steve, some insight as to our lives as well. We all have our differences with how our parents treated us (sometimes I feel bad complaining about mine, as others went through so much worse) but we were all invalidated and even see particular behaviors here that cross from family to family. At any rate, it is hard to ever feel satisfied or happy with oneself as you always feel you never quite made it. I am going through issues with my looks/age now. I have never lived up to whatever impossible image of perfection I was given... I guess to be attractive, you were supposed to be a rail thin supermodel type. So I always hated myself, and now it is getting worse for me as I feel I will never be the way I want to be.
Steve, please remember that these Ns also have no idea what it is that they think is good or right. Their ideas, like others have said here, change with the ideas of the "authority figures" around them. Speaking of which, does your dad have people he looks up to and emulates? What does he find worthy and worthwhile????? I know what my parents find to be "achievement" in life (mostly monetary gains) is far from what I respect.
Love, Beth

[moonlight52]

Hey Steve ,

Yes Steve love who you are obviously you are kind intelligent and compassionate person.
I understand the struggle of wanting approval.Beyond wanting that from anyone is freedom.
When you still see that unreal possibility that "the other person" will give this to you .

Plucky is so super duper and sooooooooooooooo right.
Investing your incredible fully realized ability to love in some one or anyone that cannot give it to you in return is sad and it hurts but it does feel better on the other side.
I care very much and so respect your understanding and your courage I admire your strength very much.Just am so glad you are seeing how wonderful you are .
TOO COOL..................................................................

Moon

[penelope]

hear ye hear ye Beth!

I so agree with that.  My N parents whims change with the weather.  Whoever they happen to idolize this year, just wait, cause they'll toss them aside next year and tout the complete opposite cause they've found new friends.  One thing that never changes, though, is they love to complain!

Also, they play this silly game of "who deserves what with their kids."  It's a little more subtle, but for example, when I graduated from college I did not receive a gift because I didn't walk in my ceremony (parents knew I wouldn't, being shy, so how convenient to make up this rule).  Also, one year, they completed neglected my birthday, and I complained for years about it - they still teased my about it in my 30's saying "bean thinks she didn't get a birthday gift the year she turned 11 [rolling their eyes and mocking me, like this is funny]. 

How soon they forget all the favors I've done for them, of course - unless its convenient for them as they'd like another.  Then they start praising me for "that time I helped them out.."

When my parents bought some land (20 acres), and wanted me and my b/f to help them build a fence around it, we fell for it and ended up doing quite a chunk, but it was still unfinished.  Then my dad pissed me off at our family counseling session (my idea) and the next thing I know, I'm emailing him and saying "why should I help you?  remember all those times in college I asked for your help, but you didn't help me.  Remember when I needed someone to look at my car, and you couldn't be bothered?  Remember when I moved all my furniture by myself?  later..when I got a job and bought a house.  Did you ever come over and help me with anything?  How many times did I call you and ask you about electrical things (and you're an electrical engineer) and plumbing..and your reply was: bean, you make more money than I do, call a plumber.  So tell me Dad, why should I help you build a fence?  Give me one good reason.  No, give me one good reason why I should LIKE you Dad, cause I don't.  I hate you, in fact."

p bean