Please Help

[Dazed1]

Hi Everyone,

I just discovered this Board yesterday and WOW!

All of you and this web site have helped me more than my therapist. So, I send a very grateful Thank You to all who have posted here and to this Web site. 

Within the last week, I came to a realization that my mother and possibly my father (both of whom are dead) were narcissists.  After reading this web site and this Board, I am now sure of it.    And, guess I'm in shock.

I guess the evidence of narcissism has always been there, but I didn't know enough to recognize it, because at times, the narcissism could be subtle. 

I guess I just thought that my parents could be 'difficult' people and I just accepted this.  They could be very loving and giving, but also very controlling, rigid & critical.

I was very compliant, filled with guilt and shame because I guess I tried to protect my parents from feeling THEIR (not my) pain.

Now, I feel disgusted with myself and I feel my parents cheated me of a normal life.  Yet, I know they did the best they could do.  They themselves came from dysfunctional families.

I'm trying not to be hard on myself.  My therapist has a great line:  "Why would someone recognize the water in which they swim?"  So, I guess I didn't recognize the narcissism because narcissism was the water in which I swam.

So, my question is:  How do I handle the shock, the realization?  What's my next step?

So, I'd love to hear from you all.

Thanks

[moonlight52]

Welcome Dazed ,

I was dazed and  also amazed as you say how subtle it is if you tried to explain it to someone that does not come from dysfunction
they might just scratch there heads and think well what did you do to them.
I guess like what Pbean wrote we are all a work in progress I think bean wrote that

So we continue to learn.I remember first looking at issues I thought when growing up I was experiencing what
all kids were experiencing you find out different it's a shock.

What I did next was  continued to see t and let the realizations sink in and I continued to read everyone here
and it helped me more than anything I've experienced.

I am sure there are others here that can give great advice Just keep posting and so much support is here.

Much love to you

Moon

[tony001]

I just realized that my parents were/are narcissists recently. It's a wierd feeling when everything you've held to be true suddenly shatters like a mirror. I highly recommend reading the book "Children of the Self-Absorbed" by Nina Brown. It teaches coping skills for the children of parents with a destructive narcissistic pattern. Can't recommend it enough.

I am feeling so much better about life in general.

I'll give you this from Al-anon:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

(If you're an atheist or agnostic just leave off the God part)

I wish serenity for you.

[IamNewtoMe]

Hi Dazed, Welcome!

This is such a huge realization, no wonder you are feeling dazed.  I remember last year, when I discovered my mom was an N.  As I said over on Tony's thread, "I realized that my mom, who had been on a goddess on a pedestal all my life, was actually a monster.   What a mind-blowing experience.  It rocked my entire world".

I sympathize with the feelings of guilt and shame. I still feel that way, but I am working through it.  Every minute of everyday, I have to remind myself not to beat myself up. And then I realize I am beating myself up for beating myself up.  It would be funny if it weren't so aggravating.  I found it helpful to be a kind and loving to myself as possible, remind myself that it's not my fault that my parents couldn't love me better.  I work on identifying my feelings and allowing myself to feel them, be with them, work through them.  Glad you are seeing a T and sharing your thoughts here on this board.  Folks here will really understand what you are going through.

I am glad you are here.

[October]

Hi Everyone,

I just discovered this Board yesterday and WOW!

All of you and this web site have helped me more than my therapist. So, I send a very grateful Thank You to all who have posted here and to this Web site. 

Within the last week, I came to a realization that my mother and possibly my father (both of whom are dead) were narcissists.  After reading this web site and this Board, I am now sure of it.    And, guess I'm in shock.

I guess the evidence of narcissism has always been there, but I didn't know enough to recognize it, because at times, the narcissism could be subtle. 

I guess I just thought that my parents could be 'difficult' people and I just accepted this.  They could be very loving and giving, but also very controlling, rigid & critical.

I was very compliant, filled with guilt and shame because I guess I tried to protect my parents from feeling THEIR (not my) pain.

Now, I feel disgusted with myself and I feel my parents cheated me of a normal life.  Yet, I know they did the best they could do.  They themselves came from dysfunctional families.

I'm trying not to be hard on myself.  My therapist has a great line:  "Why would someone recognize the water in which they swim?"  So, I guess I didn't recognize the narcissism because narcissism was the water in which I swam.

So, my question is:  How do I handle the shock, the realization?  What's my next step?

So, I'd love to hear from you all.

Thanks

I think you could look at the stages of bereavement, and prepare yourself to go through those all over again.  Even though you have already lost your parents once, you now have to lose them all over again, and realise that the parents you thought you had were a fantasy, and the actuality is very painful indeed.

Take this very slowly, and treat yourself as if you only just lost them this week.  Give yourself a lot of understanding, and a lot of compassion.

I note that you say you are disgusted with yourself.  You probably did this a lot in the past.  You took the blame away from your parents, who you relied upon, and onto yourself, in order not to lose what you had.  This disgust does not belong to you, and neither does it belong to your parents.  They did what they could, but the chances are they did what was familiar, and what they knew, and could not break away from.  They do bear some responsibility for hurting you, but you do not own responsibility for being abused by them.  You were only a child.

It is the rare person who finds out the truth about narcissism, and who is able to break the chain, and prevent this insidious condition from passing any further.  Well done for taking this step, and welcome.   

[fraidycat]

Hi Dazed, Welcome glad your here!.

I can relate to your experiences,  knowing there is something wrong seeing it but unable to put your finger on it, complying just to survive, and beating yourself up about it eventhough it was never your fault. You were smart enough to see through your parents..It takes a lot of years because of all the conditioning they do to make it all seem normal.

 This website has helped me so much too. I realized my Mom and 1 sister have NPD about a year ago and then more recently 1 brother. So I was pretty daze too (and shattered like Tony said) . I started reading obsessively about NPD and that really helped me understand but when I found this board and read other peoples stories It really helped me feel so much less alone and deepend the understanding. Its amazing to me to see so much care and compasion. Maybe because I didn't grow up with too much of either. I gained the courage to have only limited contact with the N's in my life that helped so much to get all of that craziness out of my life after awhile my head started to clear..Thank GOD (or goodness whatever you prefer) Then I was able to put things more into perspective.

You asked, How do you handle the shock and realization? What's my next step? I agree with the advice the others have given. I'm still working on this myself and it does get better. It seems to me you are already going in the right direction. Learning, writting about it and therapy... it takes time to grow.

It took a lot of courage to post I'm so glad you did (It took me a year ) I wish you the best.

Fraidycat

[Dazed1]

I hope I hit the correct "reply" button.

Thank you Moonlight, Tony, IamNewtoMe, October, Sovereign+Safe and fraidycat.  I deeply appreciate your warmth, support and encouragement.

Moonlight: Thank you for sending me love (I need it) and I will let all realizations sink in and not run away from the truth.

Tony:  Thank you for the Serenity Prayer.  I just finished Nina Brown’s book, which was what really convinced me that mother and possibly father were Ns.

IamNewtoMe:  You’re name is how I feel and apparently how you feel.  Yes, the realizations are mind blowing and I am totally with you regarding feeling my feelings.  A few years ago, I was not able to do that.

October:  You are absolutely correct with the bereavement, letting go of the fantasy and breaking the chain.

Sovereign+Safe: Thank you for validaing that I am (now) able to see the N traits of my immediate family.  One of my problems was that my parents usually did not validate my feelings.  As bad as my mother’s verbal abuse was, I feel that my parent’s refusal or failure to “validate” (a concept my therapist introduced to me) my feelings.  I think that not validating is probably the worst thing a parent can do to a child because in certain ways, I never knew what or who to believe in my life.

Fraidycat: You and I both recently discovered that we have N parents and siblings.  Like you, I am constantly reading books and the web on N, dysfunction and borderline.

Bless you all!

My current bout with a therapist started for grief counseling due to my mother’s recent death.  My therapist told me that my mother lived in “Massive denial”.  Evidence for this, among other thing, is that she was in denial of the fact that she was dying practically up until the day she died and by the time she did realize she was dying, she was unable to speak.

I’ve got bad memories (flashbacks) of the hospital and need treatment for Post traumatic Stress (PTS).  My therapist sent me to another therapist for the PTS and he tried to treat it via hypnosis, but I could not quiet my mind, so that didn’t work. 

My therapist told me that my mother engaged in “triangulations” with my sister and myself.  I estimate that out of 365 days per year, my mother complained and said bad things about my sister approximately 300 days.

Additionally, I didn’t (and still don’t) get along with my sister too well.  My mother financially supported my older sister  (she’s 40) her entire life because sister can’t hold a job.  Now it’s my job to financially support sister.  Mom and sis would constantly fight with each other and I felt caught in the middle.  Also, my parents would often yell at each other and I felt caught in the middle.  Triangles.

My sister used to (and still can) engage in screaming rages which scare me.  A few months ago, I called 911 (on advise from therapist) during a rage and sis has not engaged in such a huge rage since then.  Guess I established a “boundry”.

The point of this story is that my therapist has been telling me that my sister is “mentally handicapped” and I think that is correct.

So, within the past year, I’ve dealt with mother’s ugly death, the revelation that my sibling is “mentally handicapped” and now that mother and possibly father were Ns.  Up until a few weeks ago, I suspected that my sister was a Borderline, but, in view of my recently acquired knowledge, I think sis is also an N.

SHIT!!!!!

Sorry for blathering on.  I just gotta deal with all this crap.

Thanks again.

[October]

October:  You are absolutely correct with the bereavement, letting go of the fantasy and breaking the chain.

I am also correct with the 'you need to be nice to yourself and have compassion for yourself bit'.  Just in case you missed it first time round.   

((((((((Dazed1))))))))

[Hopalong]

Dazey,
I think it's important to get involved in some parallel process that brings you happiness, while you are also doing this huge labor of awareness.

Line up other resources for your sister so your life doesn't begin to revolve around her. Don't become the key or major or only important figure in her life....

Once you have, use the time on YOU, in some happy pursuit. Could be creative, could be swimming, could be singing, could be...

You tell me! What brings you joy when you think about it? What thing to DO makes you feel a little lighter when you let your mind just drift to it?

Hopalong

[Stormchild]

Hi Dazed - and welcome!

Sorry that you are getting all this awareness at once, glad you found this place though so you'll have some support from other survivors.

Gonna tell you something that will come as a shock, and probably won't be believable right now, but hopefully might be helpful later on.

Actually, you are under no obligation whatsoever to enable your sister.

Unless she is so severely and profoundly learning disabled, or psychiatrically disabled otherwise, that she requires round the clock institutional care, she is perfectly able to care for and support herself. She's been doing it for years; it's just been unrecognized, because her form of gainful employment has been raging at and intimidating family members [emotional blackmail], and playing helpless [manipulation]. She's managed to subsist quite comfortably on the profits from these behaviors...

The abused and scapegoated child in dysfunctional families is often the one selected for 'draining' on top of everything else. The favored child will be coddled and enabled by the parent, even while they are taking and taking and demanding and demanding from the abused and scapegoated one - who usually provides and provides, in a futile effort to prove worth and deservingness. Of course, the parents have a racket going. They're never going to give approval or any other reward to the kid who's helped them; what they will do, though, is pass the favored child on to the abused kid, for the abused kid to support in their stead, once they die.

Do think about this, do consider talking to your therapist about it. There are so many better ways to spend the rest of your life....!

[pennyplant]

Hi Dazed,

Welcome.  One thing that has helped me is journaling.  I've done it off and on for years, writing and also reading it back to myself in order to understand better and to see how far I've come (when reading older entries).

This board has taken over for some of my journaling since February though I don't write here the same things I write in my journals.  Here I can form new ideas and try them out for size.  And reading others' posts is phenomenally helpful.  I'm so glad to have found this place and these people.  They are amazing.  Oops, I mean, we are amazing  .

Another suggestion is, give yourself plenty of time.  It took years to get here.  It will take a while to find your real self.  Sometimes you will backslide.  That's okay.  You'll be able to pick yourself back up again.  Like one of the others said, you are strong already.  You survived it and you see what "it" is.  Narcissism.  Not everybody can or wants to see.  You do.  That's a point in your favor.

It was interesting to me what your T said about your mother being in "massive denial".  My father died two years ago and he would not admit he was dying either (except one day when he was quite lucid and he told me, "I understand what is happening but I can't talk about it anymore").  He was probably Asperger's which in my opinion amounts to the same thing as Narcissism as far as raising children to be voiceless.  He was capable of feeling emotions but they remained locked up inside for the most part.  But that massive denial really lays a lot of responsibility on you.  I'm still recovering from my father's illness and death and it's been two years.  I expect it will take a few more years to really incorporate all that happened during the last decade of his life.  I did often resent the extra responsibility.  I always told my husband, boy if my parents could have figured out how to stay married, my mother would be doing all this, not us.  Sometimes it felt like I became his wife.  I also resented it because my parents would do hardly anything for me as a child.  They just treated me like a bother for the most part.  Just tuned me out whenever possible.  Yet, I had to be constantly aware of their needs and make sure I behaved.  Whatever made their lives easier.  I guess massive denial would be a prerequisite for that kind of child-rearing among other selfish pursuits.

I hope you can keep coming back here and that you find it as helpful as I have.

Pennyplant

[penelope]

hi pp,
I feel sad as I've read what you've written.   

I think it is because you write with such detail that I really feel as if I'm there in your shoes, and feeling the things in your life, as they've unfolded over the past couple years...  Your story about your father and his final days really touched me.  I will never forget the analogy of him as a squirrel either (was it a squirrel?  that's what popped into my head as I read what you wrote, anyway).  Also how you described him being both afraid and excited all at once.  Maybe you should publish your words, pp.  There is so much depth and understanding and feeling in them.

((((((((((((((pp))))))))))))))

Thank you for just being you.

bean

[Hopalong]

I echo Bean, palely as she said it so well.

PP, I relate. One thing I noted in your piece was that your father actually, imo, shared a very intimate confidence with you. That comment sounded to me as though it was a true thing, and perhaps very similar to how he felt about being a parent (and being spouse to your mother must have been awful):

I know what's happening but I can't talk about it any more.

One thing in the last 8 years that I only occasionally stopped to think of, is that for all my mother's incessant demands and pouting and complaining and maneuvering and manipulating and craving attention beyond anything I can describe, I often forgot that she never lived with her parents even for a week after she left home at 18. She never went for long visits, and missed her mother's funeral.

Yet for decades, she convinced me I owed her more than any child could reasonably give. (And I bought the story.) Pretty staggering how she could hoist that inconsistency in front of me and I'd never question it...

Hops

[GAP]

I READ ABOUT NARCISSISM FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN A THERAPIST TOLD ME MY THEN HUSBAND WAS A MALIGNENT NARCISSIST AND MY LIFE WOULD NEVER CHANGE IF I STAYED WITH HIM.  I READ EVERYTHING I COULD GET MY HANDS ON AND WAS OVERWHELMED THAT THE ABUSE AND CRAZYMAKING WAS NOT ABOUT ME BUT CAUSED DIRECTLY BY HIS PERSONALITY DISORDER.  AS YOU START TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER AND GET THE STRENGTH TO LEAVE YOU WONDER HOW YOU FOUND THE STRENGTH TO STAY FOR SO LONG DISPITE THE PAIN AND SUFFERING.  AS I STARTED THERAPY I REMEMBERED WHAT I SAID IN MY HEAD WITHIN THE FIRST FEW WEEKS OF MY MARRIAGE WHEN MY HUSBANDS BEHAVIOR MADE A QUICK SWITCH FROM KIND AND LOVING TO RAGING AND NON SUPPORTIVE:  "I THOUGHT I WOULD NEVER HAVE TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE TREATING ME THIS WAY AGAIN ONCE I MOVED OUT OF MY HOME." 

I WAS A YOUNG VULNERABLE WOMAN WHO HAD NO ONE TO TURN TO, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT FOR A LONG TIME THAT I MADE PEOPLE BEHAVE BADLY.  WHEN YOU'VE BEEN ABUSED EMOTIONAL AS A CHILD AND BLAMED FOR YOUR PARENTS PROBLEMS YOU THINK YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHERS HAPPINESS.  WHEN I FINALLY GOT UP THE COURAGE TO TELL MY PARENTS ABOUT THE ABUSE IN MY MARRIAGE, THEY TOLD ME TO GO BACK TO MY HUSBAND AND FIGURE IT OUT.  I STAYED OVER 20 YEARS.

ALTHOUGH I HAVE HAD TO PUT UP WITH MY FAIR SHARE OF CRAZY BEHAVIOR AND ABUSE, I'VE REALLY TRIED TO MAKE THE BEST OF IT.  I CAN TRULY SAY THAT I DO NOT RESENT MY PARENTS AND EX HUSBAND BUT RATHER FEEL BAD FOR THEM BECAUSE OF HOW NPD PREVENTS THEM FROM LIVING A TRULY FUFULLING LIFE AND HAVING MEANINGFUL FRIENDSHIPS.  I THANK GOD I DID NOT DEVELOPE THE DISORDER.  I HAVE BECOME A BETTER PERSON BECAUSE OF WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED AND I'M NOW ABLE TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE. 

MY BROTHER JUST HAD THE AWAKENING AND REALIZED THAT MY PARENTS WERE NPD.  I'VE DEALT WITH IT FOR OVER 3 YEARS SO I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THRU.  IT IS HARD TO WATCH HIM STRUGGLE WITH THE ANGER AND UNFAIRNESS OF IT ALL.  HE IS SO TEMPTED TO CALL THE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS AND TELL THEM TO WAKE UP.  HE WOULD LOVE TO CONFRONT MY MOM AND DAD.  I SPEND ALOT OF TIME EXPLAINING IT WON'T WORK AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.  KNOWING SOME IS NPD IS SIMPLY A POWERFUL TOOL BECAUSE IF YOU READ ENOUGH YOU WILL KNOW HOW TO SPOT ONE BUT IT ALSO GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO NOT LET THEM HURT YOU ANYMORE.  IT IS ALMOST LIKE YOU GOT THE COMBINATION TO A LOCK.  ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE DISEASE YOU CAN BUILD THE EMOTIONAL BARRIERS YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH NARCISSIST AND YOU DON'T ENGAGE.  KEEP WORKING ON GETTING HEALTHIER, LOOK FOR THE POSITIVE QUALITIES YOU'VE DEVELOPED TO COPE WITH DIFFICULT PEOPLE.  THE ANGER WILL SUBSIDE...GIVE IT TIME.

[MrsJohnson]

Dazed -   I understand where you are coming from, I felt shock, realization, a plethora of emotions when I figured it out too.  For weeks, months on end.  Then came anger, which I still feel and haven't worked through yet.  For me, it seems like all the moments and time from the past I have relived, but now looking at it from another angle and it is very hard to relive a life time seeing it from this other angle.    I think for me, as uncomfortable and stressful as it is, it is all part of the healing process.   Things that I thought were normal, I now realize how very abnormal they were.  It is shocking, stressful, painful.

And I can totally relate to your feelings of trying to protect your parents from their pain.  When I first figured what was wrong with my parents, which was several months ago, I could hardly even apply NPD to them without immense guilt.

I think the whole issue of figuring it out in itself is very complicated.  How often do you hear about NPD really?  Even though it had been suggested to me years ago by a therapist that my parents might have NPD  - I totally disregarded the suggestion because although I had heard of NPD, I always had the mental picture that it was for people who were in mental wards that thought they were Napolean or Queen Elizabeth - lol.   Then to start reading about it, and reading other peoples stories - it is a real shocker.   When you have lived a way of life, all your life, even though you knew that compared to other families, something was really really wrong, but you couldn't even discuss it, or even let yourself think about it, without total guilt, you couldn't really even explain it to other people without them thinking you were exaggerating it.  It's crazy stuff.

But, just think about it, now you know.  You probably have found the key you have been looking for for a long long time. I still think that from the point of figuring it out, you have begun the healing process and everything that happens now, the anger, the shock, is moving you to a better life!