New and confused

[5 years of confusion]

Before last week I never heard of NPD, I just knew something was terribly wrong in my marriage. NPD was brought to my attention via a web site and I have been researching the disorder every chance I have, finally a clue and I guess I'm trying to solve the puzzle, why is he like he is?

The more I research the more convinced I am of his having the disorder and my having been a "volunteer" in the whole thing. I feel as though I have woken from a distributing dream where I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong, just a terrible feeling of unease.

I guess what I am looking for is for someone to validate my feelings and to affirm that this is what he has and that I better make a fast exit before I lose my will/courage.

Here are some examples, someone please give me some feedback:

He was making plans to leave for a job interview out of state and I asked that he leave me some emergency information as to where I could reach him. He didn't understand why I needed it but he did comply. Two weeks late he left again for another out of state job interview and this time he did not leave any information, nor did I ask, why should I have to ask? When he returned, I inquired as to why he did not leave information and he told me that he didn't think about it...Yeah right...He also went on to say that he thought that I was mad at him because of the way I acted before he left and yada, yada, yada...

He was embroiled in a partership dispute and ended up losing his share of the business, no money, no job, nothing....He cashed in his 401k, his coin collection, sold his part of another business, anything so that he did not have to work outside the home...He spent his time leveling out dirt in the swampy part of the backyard and building fences, etc....His depression was oppressive..Many times he would lock himself away and would not talk to me for days, this would always follow anything on my part that might have upset him...One time we argued and in anger I told him f*** you..I did not hear from him for 3 days and nights. He stayed in the guest room whenever I was at home. After 3 days  he called me at work to see how I was and when I started crying he told me that he didn't understand why I was so upset...

Around our anniversary last year he was very depressed and went to stay with a friend...read this as...he went to party and drink with a "friend." He did not come home for our anniversary but he call work and leave a message with a co-worker to tell me that he said "Happy Anniversary"

In May of this year he had an out of state job interview lined up on a Wednesday, the day before the interview he was painting the office in the back part of the property and falls off of the ladder. Breaks both arms, several ribs and sprains his backs. Suffice it to say that he did not go on the job interview and I became his nursemaid for all of his bodily needs, and I do mean ALL...you get the picture. He was a terrible patient and treated me even worse, he blamed it on the pain..Even his sister noticed how he treated me...Throughout the whole ordeal, I harbored the thought that he had fallen off the ladder on purpose so that he did not have to go on the job interview...I knew that the whole interview process had him shaken.

My birthday came and went this past summer with no present, nothing. He told me that it was because he could not go out to get anything...hmmm, but he was sure able to make purchases for himself on line...There have been other times when he has pulled my gift out from under the couch, sans the wrapping. Come to think of it, he has never wrapped one of my gifts...

Last night when I got home from work he was not in the house but I knew he was home because his car was in the garage. I took the opportunity to call my sister who lives in another state and during our conversation my husband walked into the house. I greeted him and told him that I was talking to my sister then I went into the bedroom to finish my conversation and I noted that he sat down in the living area to watch T.V. After about a half hour I finished my conversation with my sister and went into the living area and he was gone. He had gone to the guestroom aka his room, and closed the door and I haven't seen him since. He may or may not be around when I get home. He is always home, almost never leaves, just stays away from me.  We do not sleep in the same room, share the same hours, share meaningful conversations, the same outlook on life,,,,so why do I stay? I know the answer, I always have..I am a co-dependent and I allow myself to be caught up in his web...He has 1 friend that he may or may not talk to depending upon his mood. He has 3 sons by two different women and he speaks to none of them. He will talk to his mother and father and just recently, because of his accident, he is sort of speaking with a brother and a sister..but not often.

Okay, enough examples...I am tired of typing and reliving these events...I could sure use some feedback.

Thanks

[Portia]

Hi 5 years and welcome

I bet your post has got people thinking and they're considering it.

Straight off from reading you I get impressions that he's avoidant, emotionally unwell and yes depressed in some way. Is he narcissistic? ...

The thing is, lots of different types of problems can appear to have narcissistic traits: people who are depressed are locked inside their own heads and can behave very, very selfishly. They don't think that anyone can possibly care about them and they don't believe that they have any value to anyone.

I'm not saying he isn't narcissistic but your examples suggest other things too. Maybe if you could say more, perhaps about what he was like when you first met, how he was when you dated, does he try to be superior to you, does he do things deliberately to upset you (e.g. you ask him to stop doing something and he carries on deliberately)....how he treats waitresses! Those little things that might have been 'red flags' early on.

Whatever his probems are, you sound very unhappy and frustrated at not knowing what to do? Whatever his problems are, how will it affect what you want to do?

Welcome again 5 years, please keep posting.

[penelope]

Hi 5 years,

That is quite a puzzle to solve...yes indeed.

One thing that helped me when I was in a similar puzzle was to get to a therapist.  This forced me to wake up, literally.  I heard things like:  "Let's talk about you.  You need to learn how to soothe yourself."   and "so you think he's an alcoholic (bored)....So tell me about yourself.  Where do you think you derive your self esteem from?..."  etc

Co-dependency or codependent behavior (which I think you've described) can force us to look deeper.  In my case, it was a mask, beneath which was lurking a more complex problem that had to do with my Family of Origin (FOO) and from which I needed to break free.  It was simply time.

I encourage you to find your inner strength and inner courage to keep asking and keep digging.  But not about him, about what led you to him.  Then, you will get away from not only this one, but the next as well (cause if that doesn't get fixed, there will be another).

See what I'm saying?  You're strong cause you're here asking questions, and waiting patiently for a response..  Way to go, that is a sign of strength, asking for help!  There is no shame in that.

hugs,
bean

[Hopalong]

Welcome N&C,
I can't say what his diagnosis is, but it ain't good. And I ditto everything Bean said. Big ditto.

Meanwhile, sometimes one image will leap out and my inner judge will wham down her gavel. I don't know if that's correct for anyone else, so I apologize if I'm wrong, but this is telling enough for me that you are not married to a kind or healthy man:

He has 3 sons by two different women and he speaks to none of them.

I think you are the only person who can find out the right decision or timetable, but quite a few details in your story do strike me as signs that as an old woman, your heart might break to know this ghost of a man is the only other person in the house.

With sympathy, and forgive me if I'm presuming too much too soon.

Hops

[Portia]

Hi again 5 Years,

Your post stayed in my mind. I was trying to imagine what it is like to live with someone who acts like a lodger. Then I remembered the N I lived with 6 months.

It doesn’t matter what his problem is, it matters that you are unhappy. It matters that you only have one life and this is it.

You said about leaving before you lose your will/courage. Why would you lose your will or courage?

Would you feel: guilty for leaving? Sad/pitying? Scared to be on your own? To be honest you sound on your own right now, but without the freedom that being alone brings.

Hope you post more. Take care!

[Bevy]

Dear New and Confused
Your story sounds familiar to me. Especially the part about nursemaiding your husband who injures himself when he is about to take responsibility for getting a job. Also, the way that he procrastinates and noodles around doing seemingly meaningless tasks instead of finding a focus. I guess his diagnosis could be many things. The important thing is that you are realizing the impact that his behaviour has on you and you are reaching out.
Sharing your story has helped me see that i am not alone and I have been living in a remote area with no support. It sure feels good to interupt the loneliness of living with a self absorbed and disturbed person.
Recently, I separated from my narcisissist partner of seven years. Although the relationship had deteriourate into separate bedrooms. no sex, putdowns and frequent trips out of state , i continued to hang in there and be the breadwinner. Finally, he started to have an affair online. This created even more distance. I felt that I was to blame for his distance and tried to be a better nursemaid.  Fluffing his pillows, tucking him in, covering him up when he slept on the couch, cooking all the meals blah, doing all the yard work. I was so lonely and unsupported that it was kind of humiliating. There was no pretense on his part of trying to help or be an equal partner.
Although the affair was the catalyst that severed the relationship ( he left), I feel it was a godsend. I am feeling such grief that I can barely cope but there are moments of grace where I connect with real people who are capable of caring and responding and I know i am on the right road. I was terrified of being alone so i stayed. Even though I have a well paid job, a home, friends and all that.  The pain is very very hard to deal with. It is like crossing the void. Death and Rebirth. I pray a lot for help. Somehow little by little i am able to stand being alone.
I found the sites on Narcissism and they have helped a lot. I read about it constantly to hand on to reality.I realize he was my whole world and that was one of the requirement of being in relationship with him. Now I am gaing my own world. I feel like I am flying into outer space but I believe I will land someday.
Talking with people who understand is my guding star.
With love to you,
B.

[5 years of confusion]

First of all I would like to thank Penelope,Hopalong and Portia for responding to my cry for help, I cannot tell you how much it means to me.

Penelope,

I will address you first as you posted first...

I am co-dependent and truly cannot remember a time when I was not. I would like to blame it on my FOO but is that really fair? My therapist told me that it is not, my mother raised me the best way she knew how and my choices are my own. My mothers FOO was a huge mess how could she have known how to raise a family?

A little history...Father in and out of our lives whenever the mood struck, left for cigarettes and wouldn't return for months, sometimes years. When he was home, there were beatings and mental abuse…Mother withstood it all, almost apathetic, no overt love but at least she stayed around. Mother became tired of raising 4 kids on her own so she took up with the married man next door. She became pregnant 2 more times and while he was getting her pregnant he was molesting my 2 sisters...I don't believe I was molested due to my being the oldest girl and I might tell. I married at 19, pregnant at 21 and hubby left me for another man when our child was 3 years old. I tried it on my own as a single parent for awhile living in subsidized housing a couple of units away from my mother..btw..her married man had gone back to his wife due to his health problems, my mother now living in subsidized housing. While I'm trying to live on my own, I take up with a married man who is separated from his wife, he moves in with me. I start seeing signs of verbal abuse toward my child and I move out and let the man keep the apartment.   I move in with my gay ex who is now living on his own. He and I try to make it together for a while but to no avail. He decides to go back to his lifestyle and I have to decide where I am going to live. Enter the son of the man with which my mother had an affair. He and I start dating, decide that we are in love and get married. The marriage did pretty well considering our history, lasted 14 years. The same year my son graduated from high school, I have what feels like a nervous breakdown, have an affair with a married man, leave my husband and my adopted 13 years old daughter...but that's another story...Move in with the married man, after he puts his wife in another place. I try to make a go of it with married man, doesn't work and I have to leave, almost like a thief in the night for I fear the wrath of married man. My ex hubby, son of my mothers married man, moves me and my stuff back into his home and once again I am with living with my now ex hubby and my daughter. Well, not 2 months later, I am perusing an internet dating site...after all I'm single, right?..groan.. I meet my present day husband and he and I arrange to meet. We both like each other and arrange to spend a weekend together. Weekend goes fine but upon my return to my job, this is where present hubby was dropping me off to pick up my vehicle. I find that my boss has decided to fire me from my job for not working over the weekend. It was a job selling cars and I believe they gave me the job as a favor to my ex hubby. Well, I'm upset, crying, wondering what I'm going to do and present hubby says “Why don’t you come and stay with me for a few day?” Well, a few days’ turns into living together this turns into marriage.

Present day…

He treated me fine in the beginning although at times aloof. I knew he liked his Crown Royal and his pot and I joined him for a while; make that off and on for several years. He treats servers, strangers, and almost everyone else very well. Well you’ve read my first post and you know what I’m going through now. I am trying to do what the NPD sites suggest and give him his own medicine; hence, I am kind but aloof. As of last night, it appears that he will probably have a job about 2 hours from our home and he will have to live in an efficiency apartment and I will have the house to myself. I am happy about this and made mention of it this past Sunday. I explained to him that I am ready to live alone, for the first time in my life and I am actually looking forward to it. He took this information very well and thought it was a good idea as well. I have pretty much came to the conclusion that part of the problem with he and I is that I have been looking for a knight-in-shining-armor, someone who would love me unconditionally. I finally understand that I have to love myself and cannot achieve self-love through osmosis, only I can give me what I need. I believe that with his depression, lack of affection, apathy, he could only give so much. Thanks to whomever posted this and brought this to my attention, it made me think Maybe he does not have NPD, maybe he does but whatever it is, he and I make a vile concoction and I don’t know if we will ever have what it takes to make it work a lifetime. Hopalong, your post about my being an old woman with him around the house has occurred to me on more than one occasion, I abhor the idea. Portia, about my leaving, many things prevent me and none should really matter. When I left my ex hubby he got everything including our daughter. So, when I moved in with present hubby I had very few things to call my own and since he hasn’t worked much we have purchased little together but I love what we have purchased. I am 46 years old and the thought of starting on my own with nothing but clothing and personal items make me despair. I will have left 3 husbands behind, all will have kept the homes and furniture. I just feel as though I am too old to start over again. I want to live on my own but don’t want to start over…hence…5 years and confused

Ps..I was about to post and saw “B”s post..

B,

OMG, you are so right, it does feel good to interrupt the loneliness by living with a self absorbed and disturbed person, I never looked at it that way, wow, talk about a slap of reality... My hubby and I sleep in separate rooms, have for some time now, separate bathrooms, separate time schedules. He has recently begun the put downs although he will disguise them as jokes. Now, as for the internet, he spends a lot of time in his office that is located on the back part of the property. Whenever I go back there it usually takes him a minute to open up the door, I’ve always thought he locked it for security but lately I’ve had a nagging thought that he might be chatting with other women. After all, he did meet me online. I can honestly say that if he left me I would be relieved, as long as I received my share of furnishing and equity. I almost welcome the thought.

[Hopalong]

N&C--
Please, go have a brief (often no-charge) chat with a lawyer!!!!!

There is no reason if he is adulterous or involved in online relationships and particularly, if he's about to move away...that you cannot leave the marriage with your fair share of equity and furnishings.

That said, even if you walked out the door with the clothes on your back and started in a bedsit somewhere, isn't that better? Ultimately?

I know it's not an easy question to answer. I've continued living with my elderly NMom for security reasons. The difference is, she's nearly 96, so I know there is freedom ahead for me. With a spouse, you don't have the future to look forward to.

I hope you will think hard about the furniture. I understand, but at least talk to a lawyer about what your rights would be. That might relieve a lot of unecessary worry and free you up to make a different decision.

Hops

[Stormchild]

New/Confused:

this jumped out at me from your first post:

Around our anniversary last year he was very depressed and went to stay with a friend...read this as...he went to party and drink with a "friend." He did not come home for our anniversary but he call work and leave a message with a co-worker to tell me that he said "Happy Anniversary"

This is just screaming 'alcoholic' at me... I'm not saying he isn't an N, but this sort of binging and addictive behavior - just screams 'alcoholic' - on top of everything else that is wrong. And untreated alcoholism will basically prevent someone from recovering from anything else.

Have you ever tried Al-Anon or ACOA?

[SilverLining]

Hi 5 years.

Many elements of your description remind me of my father, who I believe has an autistic spectrum disorder.  The aloofness, the lack of empathy for your feelings, lack of friends, erratic behavior, clumsiness(falling off the ladder?) depression, possible substance abuse.   From what I understand, these are all possible autistic symptoms.   

Regardless of the label, it sure seems to be a dysfunctional situation for you.  My mother went through many of the things you have experienced.  She survived  by starting a career in her 40's and setting up an emotional support system outside of her marriage.  To this day (approaching their 50th anniversary amazingly enough) they still seem to me to be more "roommates" than husband and wife.  My father lives on one floor of the house and my mother on the other. 

So I suppose it is possible to figure out how to survive with the situation, but is it really what you want to do?   My parents didn't come to some sort of reconcilation with each other until they reached their 60's  when my father retired and became somewhat easier to deal with.   But it sure was a lot of grief to go through for a (sort of) happy retirement.

[penelope]

hi 5 years,

What if it wouldn't be "blaming" to look deeper into your FOO, rather it would be a means for you to start healing?  Thinking that there is even blame that needs laying is an error in thinking... know what I mean?  There are other reasons for exploring therapy that are not about judging and finding a place to lay the guilt and shame.   Just something I've noticed, anyway.

Something sort of jumped out for me in what you've said and it was this:

I have been looking for a knight-in-shining-armor, someone who would love me unconditionally

That sounds like a pretty noble goal, and I hope you stick with it too!!  

hugs,
bean

[Plucky]

I would like to blame it on my FOO but is that really fair? My therapist told me that it is not, my mother raised me the best way she knew how and my choices are my own. My mothers FOO was a huge mess how could she have known how to raise a family?

Hello 5 years and welcome.
I am sorry for the empty pain that your life has become.  But you have embarked on the road to peace and happiness and understanding.  You will get there.  Keep going.
I agree with Penelope.  If blame will not help, because it can be somewhat negative, why not just seek understanding and causes?  I don't know why your therapist thinks your mother raised you 'the best she knew how' - I know lots of us have heard this before and it is not particularly helpful or even true.    Burying of, or unconditional excuses for, the events of the FOO is a strange way to achieve understanding and progress, I think.

Eventually you will become your own knight in shining armour.  You will love yourself unconditionally, and that is better than any type of love from anyone else.
Plucky 

[Hopalong]

Yay Plucky!
That last para is suitable for framing!

Hops

[gratitude28]

Hi 5,
Welcome!!!!!!!!
I've got a tough question for you...Why in the world would you let someone treat you like that? And what do you see in a man who has no principles?
I am sure there is a reason. Time to start digging (and codependent is too blanket a statement).
Dig, dig and share.
And you deserve a lot better. I get very frustrated to see a person like him... especially such irresponsibility when it comes to children. A real man would do what's best for his kids.
Love, Beth

[5 years of confusion]

Okay, here comes the weekend....I have been able to ditch my hubby all week due to my working 40 + hours a week, now the weekend...

Please, Please, Please, let him stay out of my face, please don't let him start wanting to talk just so he can tell me that it's my fault and I misunderstood..yet again..

Please let me have the strength to separate our personal papers, without hims knowing, so that I will have my stuff together when I leave.

Please let me try to forget that my dog is dead and I cannot get over the sneaky suspicion that he killed him

Please..may I find the strength that I need to stay strong and even if I'm not, please don't let him see my weakness.

Please..Please...Please...Do not let it cross his mind that he may want sex...even though it little and far between...please, I don't want to fight but even more, I do not want to be intimate..

Please let me make it to Monday where I will find the sweet release and solitude of work. Where I am surrounded by friends and supportive peers. They might not know the whole story but I know that there would be there for me if they did.

Please my new friends, wish me strength, wish me courage...I need my cyber support friends more than all of you will ever know...

Till Monday...