This kind of anger

[adrift]

I grew up with lots of anger in the home and I thought it was natural to be angry, to let everything make you angry.  I had not healthy ways of handling life, the world, stress......... I felt anger instead of other emotions, because I guess I learned that anger was an acceptable emotion, but sadness, depression, fear--they were not acceptable.  So most everything was channeled into the anger category.   It has taken a lifetime (44 years) to get to the point that I'm not so angry any more. This forum, and you PP, have been a great help to me.  So has my faith, my husband, my kids.  

I know what it feels like to literally feel the anger coursing through your veins.  Not a great feeling   , but at the same time it's an empowering feeling which I think is why my FOO found it to be an acceptable emotion. My parents couldn't admit they were sad or depressed, so they got angry.

The anger you're experiencing is telling you something and from what you've written it sounds to me like you're on top of the issues.  If you can find a way to address the situation at work and not let it be a repeat of how you were treated as a child, then I believe that action will help relieve your anger.  Course, I don't have the answer for how to do that, sorry.

But it's o.k. for you to be angry now and definitely find a way to let some of that rage go.  Exercise IS good, I find that walking and talking to myself and letting out all my anger out loud seems to help.  Sometimes hitting something, a pillow maybe, is good.  That anger has to go somewhere, don't try to keep it bottled or it will ruin you.

I wish I could help.  I will pray for you today.  

[Hopalong]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((PP)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry. Breathe. Do it again.

love
Hops

[moonlight52]

Pennyp ,

Hope you are doing better today.I guess there are lots of ways to handle anger .
When I was young there was no anger between my parents.
There was anger ,violence and physical abuse directed to the children .

This left myself and siblings believing we were deeply flawed.
I suppressed so much.I payed we all payed so dearly for the abuse.

With your ability to think things through taking on the anger in what ever size  you wish is up to you .
It's all your choice but I do believe in feeling our feelings.
 Not being afraid of any feeling is a good thing.

Much Love
moon

[IamNewtoMe]

Thanks Pennyplant and All for this thread.  It is so relevant to me right now. 

I was both angry and sad today and didn't know why - wasn't even sure it was anger - I thought, no, maybe it's sadness.  I am not practiced at identifying my emotions.  So with the good advice I read here, I went in my room and beat a pillow with my fists for about 30 seconds (probably not long enough). I found myself saying repeatedly through clenched teeth, "it's not my fault.  its not my fault.  It's NOT my FAULT!!". 

Nope,  not sad. . . .   ANGRY!

After I beat the pillow, I cried, and was mad that I was crying.  "What's up with this misery?" I thought, "I'm supposed to feel better now that I beat this  $%%# pillow!!!"  But then a few minutes later, I did feel a bit better.  Patience.

Portia wrote:
"We feel angry when we feel threatened.

When our sense of ‘me’ as having value as a person, is threatened.

The threats we perceive may not be ‘real’ – we’re reacting to how we were treated as kids."

I think I am feeling threatened (and then angry) because my husband is feeling threatened (and then angry) because I have been setting boundaries lately.  I have also been having expectations lately, and getting angry when they are not met, or when boundaries are violated.  My husband is not N, but maybe he was comfortable with my lack of boundaries and expectations before (it made things easier for him when I was so flexible and agreeable to whatever he wanted (me) to do.  Or at least I squelched my feelings when I was unhappy.  Now I think my independence feels dangerous to him, and he tries to control what I do in small ways.  I feel threatened and push back.  One of us draws the line in the sand. We act like adversaries.

One of my biggest challenges is sorting out anger toward N people, and anger toward loved ones or more neutral people.  Different. Very different.  Confusing.

From my 30 seconds of pillow beating, I also realized I am also angry at our couples therapist.  I feel like she assumes our marriage problems are my fault, cause I'm so messed up and my husband is so charming.  But I think I will start another thread on that one, because I want to stick to the anger topic here. 


The following bits by Liberty and Moonlight meant so much to me, I just had to highlight them:

What I wanted to tell you was that I realized that as angry as I got with my parents, my husband and all the people who were unfair to me, there was nothing that I could do to change their attitude. In fact, the only thing that I was able to do was to work on myself. It;s the most we can do. If a past sibbling or parent or co-worker is selfish and unkind, that is really not your problem. You didn't cause them to be that way. In fact their behaviour indicates that they have work to do on themselves.

Don't take responsibilty for foolishness that does not belong to you. it is other's people resonsibility to fix themselves. It's not your responsibility to fix them, or to make them see what they did to you, or to make them want to change or any thing along those lines. Just do what you can for yourself and learn to respond in ways that are benficial to you. You'll be a much happier person without the burden of other poeple's emotional baggage on your shoulder.

NICE PEOPLE GET PISSED OFF TOO..................................................iT'S OK TO GET ANGRY

I also loved the comments (sorry, can't remember who it was) about acknowledging our anger as a red flag - something I should pay attention to and take a closer look at. 

And a note on fast, loud, angry music - LOVE IT!  I used to listen to this kind of music a lot. Sometimes sitting perfectly still, not moving a muscle.  Sometimes jumping vigorously up and down until I was tired.  Never understood why I liked it - it seemed so unlike me.  Now I know "me" a little better.  I guess it was therapeutic - I just didn't know it at the time.  Maybe I should get back into it now - i seem to need it. 

Thanks everybody for all your wisdom.

[liberty]

A powerful angry song that I like to play is: "I become so numb" It was the theme song for the new Miami Vice movie!

Cheers!

[pennyplant]

Everybody, this is so much more than I expected!  This is going to help me so much.

Today I worked all day and felt so much stronger!  Just all confident and everything.  It feels like a breakthrough, an aha! like I've been waiting for.  So many helpful ideas.  It will take time to digest and learn the new things you've all brought up here.  But how worthwhile it is.

I've thought of more things since last night but have to wait till later or tomorrow to post.  I have yoga in a little while and also have to have supper.

I keep thinking the yoga will help with this issue.  At first yoga felt awkward and like I was missing the main idea.  Lately it feels more internalized and like I am really learning it a little at a time.  And it seems related to the changes I'm feeling, especially with my feelings.

I don't feel intimidated about the anger now.  It seems very do-able.  I feel so supported.  Thank you and I will be back tonight or tomorrow on this thread.

Pennyplant

[GAP]

Reading the thread on anger was incredibly helpful to me.  The comments about growing up in a household were the only emotion that was allowed was anger really struck a cord.  On rare occasions I have felt rage and it is almost an out of body experience for me...I don't recognize my voice and can't stop the flow of anger.  It is such a rush.  When I return to "normal" I'm always shocked that I behaved in that manner.  Each instance of rage involved my perception of a injustice done to one of my children that was similar to something that happened to me as a child and no adult stood up for me.  I have seen these instances as red flags of unresolved pain and have sheepishly apologized to the recipient realizing my valid message was lost due to my rage.

I grew up with a mother that has rage issues and married a man that rages.  To read everyones honest feedback on their rage and anger was astonishing to me.  My ex husband refuse to take ownership of his rage and made discussion of it so unpleasant I would avoid discussing it.  Your writing made me realize although he controls all the people in his life through his rage and anger and no one would ever have an ounce of sympathy for him and his plight....his behavior is the result of the same voicelessness I felt as a child he just took another path to hiding and stuffing his pain.  Unfortunately, anger combined with narcissism is a horrible combination in that the chances of them ever admitting the problem and dealing with it is unlikely.  I admire all you honesty and courage in dealing with a difficult problem.

[GAP]

jacmac,

I found you comments interesting:

WHEN I WAS ANGRY IT WAS FOR GOOD REASON, I HAD BEEN ABUSED AND SILENCED AND ATTACKED - BUT WHEN MY ABUSERS WERE ANGRY IT WAS AN ANGER WITHOUT REASON - I WAS FALSELY ACCUSED, FALSELY LABELED AND VICTIMIZED.
 

Abusers are more then likely victims that have not faced their demons.  Were they not at some time the falsely accused, the attacked and the abused.  Why do some people suffer this abuse and recover while others become abusers?  The say the majority of pedophiles were sexual abused as children but not all sexually abused children become pedophiles. 

[GAP]

jac,

Many thanks for the explanation.  As a mother I'm concerned with breaking the cycle of anger and abuse.  I hope by acknowledging the behavior they witnessed as young children and providing a healthier emotional environment for them will increase the odds of them l not becoming victims or abusers themselves.

[pennyplant]

Let me share something with you - it probably won't 'help' right now but hold on to it, it does make sense later on. Anger is one of the best servants you can possibly have. Anger is like radar, it's like second sight, if you learn how to use it and work with it it will alert you to abusers before they have a chance to abuse you, it will alert you to Ns and to situations that are traps.

But it's a terrible master, and that's the problem, we're just not taught how to manage it and use its energy to give us power rather than taking our strength.

Accept your anger. Call it a friend. Ask it to tell you where the problems are... Do what you are doing... you will find that it diminishes when it knows that it is being heard and that the best thing you can do for it is to tell it that you believe it... you may be surprised, telling it you hear it and believe it may make you cry with relief.

This is pure gold.  I never would have thought of this on my own.  I know I can do this in my day to day life.  The right words at the right time.  Thanks, Stormy.

I have time tonight for a couple more comments, but I have read everything and will keep reading over and over again.  This is just amazing.

PP

[pennyplant]

I will tell you what I believe has helped me. When I went to AA, I had to learn to let go of resentments. For someone like me, resentments will lead me right back to the bottle (or worse). As much as I fought it, I had to forgive them their wrong behavior and see them as sick people. And they are sick... spiritually, emotionally...I even had to pray for them (generaliities...may they be healthy, prosperous, peaceful). It is hard to do.I really want for someone to stand up and point to them and say, "How could you treat your daughter that way???" But it is not going to happen. And vindictiveness can also not be part of my life.

Yes, Beth, I don't want to be vindictive either.  It is really hard, though.  A few weeks ago, I tried something that I have seen suggested here many times, about giving it over to God.  Often my anger with certain people is mixed with guilt about how I contributed to the problem.  I mean my real "contributions" not general, free-floating shame.  So, in not giving it over to God or letting in any kind of forgiveness, I think I must be punishing myself for those contributions.  But a few weeks ago, I made a real prayer, a real request about how sorry I was for my part in a bad situation.  The person is someone I will probably never see again, so this is the only way I will be able to be sorry and ask for forgiveness.  And this is a person who I had much anger about, for a long time, too.  I had cried many tears over this person.  And the prayer felt real to me.  It felt answered.  So, it seems like maybe I can learn to do what you suggest.  And have it be a real help.

It is hard, but I feel ready for this step.  Thank you for bringing it up in this context.  It is so helpful.

PP

P.S.  I do very much hope that when the rage welled up in you at your memories of constant unfairness (disguised as fairness) that it soon seeped out peacefully.  It was certainly justified rage.  But it does feel completely awful and I hope that it drained away and you were able to sleep well.

[pennyplant]

There are so many different ways to let go of anger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not be afraid of it as Storm says I was for years I also recently went though a process that rid
me of years of pent up anger and I let it run its course

BUT IT WAS RELEASED IN A VERY HEALING WAY NO ONE TOLD ME WHAT TO DO IT HAPPENED.
I let it happen Use your intuition to tell you the right release.


NICE PEOPLE GET PISSED OFF TOO..................................................iT'S OK TO GET ANGRY

It will be hard for me to find my way of letting it rip!!!  But I will find a way.

I have always been afraid of my anger.  It has been out of control many times in the past.  I am still very ashamed of some things I have done.  I have made a fool of myself many times due to uncontrolled, unleashed anger.  I have scared people.  Not all the time, but definitely far too often.  When I was that angry, it seems that it started out as some other emotion.  Fear, humiliation, frustration.  And anger can lead to those feelings for me as well.  A vicious cycle sometimes.

Sunday we went to see the film, Shortbus.  Not a film for everyone, admittedly.  It is NC-17 for a reason.  Many here would probably not like it.  But it moved me a great deal.  And there is a scene near the end when a main character has a meltdown.  She takes an object and starts bashing everything in sight with it.  She is out of control.  Then, when she is totally drained, she stands there all ashambles with her hair hanging down and completely covering her face.  And I told my husband, that was me one day in fourth grade.  I actually did something like that in school one day.  And it was so completely humiliating.  I did stand with my hair covering my face because I was so ashamed.  That episode was very hard to live down.  Kids and sometimes their parents brought it up to me many times over the years.  I would not be surprised for someone to bring it up to me when I am 80 years old.  It was pretty shocking for the witnesses, my little 9-year-old cohorts, who thought it was okay to pick on me when they felt like it. (I should say here that my meltdown was not caused by being picked on, though, it was caused by unrequited love, my fear that the classmate I loved would not let me join his group that was working on a class project that day.  Too bad I couldn't have just been absent that day  .)

So, I have big issues with the shameful aspects of unleashed anger.  It will be good to find a private ritual or release for myself to channel it in some way.  I believe I am just about mature enough for that now.

I have often thought I must not be a very nice person at all to be so angry all the time.  And maybe it will turn out that "nice" is not a major part of my personality afterall.  But I would like to be nice.  Or maybe generous is more what I'm after.  And I can't really be that if I feel that I don't have "enough" for myself.  That is also an issue in my anger.  What about me?  How come I was never important enough or taken care of enough?

There's a lot floating around related to this.  I'm not going to let myself become overwhelmed by how big it is and how complex.  Many of you have been able to really get a handle on anger and your experiences are so very helpful.

Moon, it might not be rocks in the river, but I will come up with something  .  Thank you so much.

Now I must get to bed.  Good night all.

PP

[Hopalong]

PP,
To me, the most important thing is for you to love yourself and forgive yourself for everything.
Feeling angry doesn't make you a bad person, and you ARE so clearly good, and generous, and honest and brave.

I am rattled by anger, not always confident that releasing it is positive. It takes a lot to get me mad. But in contrast to openly abusive households, mine was very repressed in terms of expressing feelings. All the anger was acted out in my brother's silent bullying of me, in hidden corners, always, always, out of sight.

I think you just have a big roar inside, and it's not aimed at anyone present. That's key, I think, to know that you're roaring on behalf of yourself.

I wonder if swimming would be helpful? I love putting on goggles and cap and immersing in the water, holding a kickboard and just going and going. The water flows over me and cushions me and I feel free and protected at the same time.

That little PP needed friends. Needed not to be rejected. Needed to be noticed and part of things.

Sleep well. You are processing vital energies in the best way you can. Your anger won't poison you.

Hops

[Plucky]

Hi Pennyplant,
I understand how you feel.  When I first came up on the board, I had so much rage that I was afraid if what I might, and nearly did, do.  I was afraid to even look down the well of anger I had, for fear I'd fall in.  I thought I'd never get the cat back in the bag again.  I was shocked at things I have done and afraid I'd do worse.

The key for me was understanding my triggers.  My colossal rage was not always justified and certainly not my friend.  But knowing why certain things triggered me, and what had happened to me as a child that I was not allowed then respond to with the appropriate emotion, allowed my anger to be released.  And the production cycle of new anger, triggered by events which I misinterpreted because of my un-understood past, decreased.

If you are trying to suppress your anger, because your reaction does not seem to fit the situation, it will not work.   Anger is like a combustible gas.  If you try to compress it, it might explode.  And lookout when it ignites!

I think you have already had a breakthrough with your understanding of the roles in your FOO.  Now the key is just to start to break the anger habit and continue to analyse in order to understand more.

I had people tell me they had no idea I was so, and the word anger was not used, but assertive, or such like.  I felt I was even being told I had almost hoodwinked them by pretending to be other than I was!  If this is the subtext with your H, you might want to address it, or or you might just ignore it and work on your more pressing issue.

Today, my residual anger is indeed my friend.  I am able to be direct and assertive and stick to my guns.  I will not be victimised again.  Thank you, wicked dregs of bad Plucky which remain!

Good luck
from Pluck

[Portia]

Hi PP

Great thread! Everyone has something to say about anger and rage. It's a key. You found it

my fear that the classmate I loved would not let me join his group that was working on a class project that day

who were you really raging at, that day? Who was really responsible for making you feel excluded, unloved, unworthy, frustrated, so very deeply unhappy?

My H once shouted at me "It's not me you're screaming at! I don't do those things. Who are you screaming at??"

Yah. Rage can be terrifying and shameful and feel so utterly out of control. I think the few times I really raged, as an adult, I regressed to about 4 years old, seriously. I pinpointed the exact memory - from when I was about 4 - that caused the rage. It has a reason. May not be one event, may be many events, but they're all from way back. Really FEEL that truth and you will be able to see the cause of your rage / anger.

This is so important