Author Topic: being rescued  (Read 3182 times)

axa

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being rescued
« on: November 23, 2006, 03:46:46 PM »

I posted about this already today but want to explore it more.  I have been thinking that wanting to be rescued has something to do with not wanting to take responsibility for my own life.  I still want that dammed prince!!!!!  Somehow I believe that this is the nut I really need to crack.  When I am not in a relationship I am so able to live a full life but as soon as a man comes into the picture I abandon myself and the life I have built up.  And I become the loving rescuerer...........NOT!

The first step for me now is to claim my life as my own and my responsibility.  I too need a plan and commit to caring for myself within that plan.  I give away so much so easily without awareness.  I justify it by saying that in a relationship people have to compromise etc. but I am not talking compromise h ere I am talking abandonment.  I have not really been aware of this before.  I live in terror of being abandoned by my partner but it is I who has abandoned me.

I would be really interested to hear others views on this.

Axa

Gaining Strength

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2006, 06:01:01 PM »
This is THE issue in my life.  This is the place I have not dared to go.  ]

Quote
The first step for me now is to claim my life as my own and my responsibility.  I too need a plan and commit to caring for myself within that plan.
 

Part of my wanting to be rescued is resentment of not being cared for as a child and the abandonment that occurred as an adult by my father.  How does that happen?  Well it's a story and if I weren't surrounded by interlopers and am afraid of being interrupted I would put it out here.  Perhaps later.  But I am willing to look at my wanting to be rescued as my unwillingness to be responsible for myself.  Boy does that sound awful!  It sounds so juvenile and immature.  I don't suppose that it is because in this regard I AM juvenile and immature.  I am angry about having to deal with this.  Part of me wants to sit around waiting to be taken care of.  Believe it or not,  this is definitely related to resentment for me.  I really resent having grown up with abundance and abandoned financially without word one.  Now that is immature but confession is definitely a requisite for coming out of denial and facing the tough stuff.

Axa - this is a very timely thread.  Thank you for putting it out there. 

Stormchild

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 11:00:04 AM »
Hi axa, hi GS

Last night I read this thread and thought about putting up something about the Karpman Triangle here, but I figured someone else would do it, and I'd been vocal enough for one day.

But now it's been another 12 hours and nobody has said anything about Karpman dynamics, so I guess it's OK for me to go ahead...

There are a couple of diagrams illustrating how this pattern works, on the 'what helps' board; I'll go get the URL for that post in a minute... here it is: http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3/index.php?topic=1549.0

And here's a description to go with the pictures.

Stephen B. Karpman identified a pattern of interactions in alcoholic-codependent families, which he named the "Drama Triangle". It involves two people, most of the time, but three roles. The roles are: Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor.

You can draw a triangle, and write Victim at one point, Rescuer at the next, and Persecutor at the third. The triangle works like this: people move between these roles, and go around and around and around in a neverending drama of rescuing, persecution, and victimization.

First, the person who is in the role of Victim shows signs of distress, or is in a bad situation, or otherwise needs help. This can be quite a legitimate need! It doesn't have to be a pretense at all. There are plenty of real life situations in which people need help. But if the Victim is actually looking for something more than help, or something other than help, they may be vulnerable to Karpman games.

The next phase is this: a Rescuer appears. This is a person who may genuinely feel a desire to help the Victim - or they may have a compulsion to 'rescue' people, or to 'fix' situations. Or - they may enjoy feeling powerful, and few things make you feel as powerful as rescuing someone else. This can look benign when we are young, it is one of our culture's deepest fairytales - the broken-winged bird, healed by love; Beauty and the Beast; the Prince, rescuing the Damsel in Distress. [and they all lived happily ever after.]

So it's easy enough to be a Rescuer. And again, this isn't necessarily a 'game' or a 'drama'. It all depends on what the people involved do with the situation, what their expectations are of one another.

If the Rescuer is genuinely into helping the Victim, they will give exactly the help that is needed. They won't become enmeshed with the Victim, although they may become friendly - there's a huge difference between friendship and enmeshment. Most importantly, they will have realistic expectations of the Victim; if, for instance, the Victim is a severe alcoholic having DTs, a healthy Rescuer will see to it that the DTs are treated, get the alcoholic some vitamin shots, and provide them access to resources for detox... but the Rescuer won't expect a miraculous turnaround, won't demand it, and won't become enraged when the 'script' isn't followed. There is no script. The Victim is seen as free to be themselves. The help is given because it is right to give it. The Rescuer will certainly hope for change, even pray for it, but they know they cannot demand it.

A Karpman Rescue always has a script, and it is rarely followed, so the Rescuer is always disappointed in the outcome of their rescuing.

This is where the Persecutor role comes in. It is usually taken on first by the Rescuer, because of anger at the Victim's not going along with the script the Rescuer has in his or her head. Suddenly, instead of being supportive and helpful, the Rescuer becomes critical. Judgemental. Cold. Or angry. Furious. Blaming and raging.

Now - two things can happen. The Rescuer can remain in the Persecutor role, in which case the Victim remains in the Victim role, until the Persecutor switches over again to Rescuer. This is how spousal battering works...

Or, the Victim can rare up on his or her hind legs and decide to dish it out [how dare you speak to me like that!!!], and then THEY become the Persecutor, and the Rescuer is now left playing the role of Victim.

If the Rescuer is hooked into the triangle at this point, they will not leave; they may act out [do something to the former Victim to get THEM back into the Victim role], they may act in [do something to themselves to get the former Victim out of Persecuting and into a Rescuer role] but they will not leave.

You'll notice that the Victim also has the opportunity to leave this triangle, the instant the Rescuer switches from Rescuing to Persecuting. If they don't leave, if they switch over to the Persecutor role or stay in the Victim role waiting for the Persecutor to Rescue them again, they are also hooked into the triangle.

Victim-Rescuer-Persecutor. Around and around we can go, all our lives, if we don't see what's happening.

interestingly, there's another triangle, a healthy triangle, the Quinby triangle, which is the positive version of this, without the gameplaying and persecution. instead of Rescuing, a person Reaches Out. Instead of being a Victim, the person being reached out to is Vulnerable. And instead of Persecuting, both parties Persevere - they hang in and work together as long as it takes to get through whatever there is to get through. There may be limitations to what each of them can do - but that is very different from having a 'script'.

Think of Christopher Reeve and Dana Reeve, and you can see what a Quinby interaction is like.

Wanting to be rescued isn't necessarily unhealthy. Wanting help when we need it, wanting to be lifted up when we are down, this is part of the good stuff that human interaction is supposed to provide. But you must be aware - vulnerability attracts not only good guys, but Karpman rescuers, too. And it can be hard to tell them apart, until you become the target of rage.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 11:03:50 AM by Stormchild »
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Gaining Strength

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2006, 09:28:37 AM »
Stormchild -

I saw your post yesterday and saw its powerful value.  I fled.  I came back today after reading Babysteps post saying she can't
take the responsibilities any more.  I am learning to overcome my great fears of responsibilities for which I don't have the resources.  This is my greatest psychological knot.

Today I read the last part of your post and recognize its great value.
Quote
Wanting to be rescued isn't necessarily unhealthy. Wanting help when we need it, wanting to be lifted up when we are down, this is part of the good stuff that human interaction is supposed to provide.
[/b] 

Wanting help when we need it, wanting to be lifted up when we are down,  This is what I did not get as a child.  Needing help brought out criticism, belittling sarcasm and sometimes punishment, often abandonment.  This is precisely the issue from childhood that I have played out.  Seeing it in black and white is quite frightening.  Facing it is frightening.  I don't yet have the courage to read the whole of your post.  You have reached right in to my deep, searing wound and though you are offering solace the pain is still too great to fully comprenhend it.

Your post is another example of the miracle of this place. 


anyone offering suggestions about how to move my profoundly wounded child's soul out into the open to face the healing?

Gaining Strength

axa

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2006, 09:59:24 AM »
Hi gaining strength,

Those poor little wounded children how they have suffered.  I am struggling also with this.  I know the answer lies with loving and caring for that child but for us who have not experienced this it is such a hard thing to do.  I am going to fill up my big bath tub and give mine the comfort of that today.  I am going to walk outside and show her the beauty of the landscape that surrounds us.  I think these are the small steps we can take.  I am trying my best she is calling to me and I am afraid to look at her pain but I will try and take a peep today and tell her I am so sorry for all that she has suffered.

I don't know if these soft actions will help you but this is the way I am trying to do it.

Sending your little one softness

axa

Stormchild

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2006, 10:11:01 AM »
One step at a time, GS - one step at a time, only as much as you feel up to, but keep your eyes on the prize.

Keep your eyes on the prize.

Sometimes people will tell you it doesn't matter if you never make the attempt because it's so difficult. People will tell you this shouldn't be so difficult.

Oddly enough, they don't usually say the same thing about childbirth, 2 a.m. feedings, learning to walk, toilet training, learning to read, tonsillectomies, appendectomies, rock climbing, skiiing, auto racing, learning to play a musical instrument, learning to cook, learning chemistry, final exams, medical school, law school, divinity school, buying a house, nursing a loved one through a major illness, divorce, or bereavement. Only about psychological growth and healing. Everything else that is difficult is 'allowed' to be...

Often these folks just want company in their rut, so beware of that counsel.

It's one thing to proceed at your own pace and take as long as you need.

It's quite another thing to put your own proceeding 'on hold' purely to please and appease someone else, or several someone elses, so that they can feel justified in staying stuck - because of all the other people who are stuck right alongside them.

Peer pressure doesn't stop when you get out of high school.

Take your time - just let it be your time that you are taking, for yourself. As long as you know that's true for you, you will be where you need to be, when you need to be there.

There's no painless way to confront some of these things - but taken one step at a time, with constructive support [including a therapist if need be, or an ACOA or AlAnon group or two] the feeling of power and release that understanding brings can make up for an awful lot of the pain.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 10:14:37 AM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Dazed1

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2006, 02:26:37 PM »
Don't have much to add except that Stormchild's post was on target for me.

Up until very recently, for me, the earth was not round, but instead it was a TRIANGLE, the bad kind, the Karpman kind.

I've never heard of the good kind of trianle, the Quinby triangle, so thank you for that, Stormchild.

Will endeavor to substutute the Quinby for the Karpman.

dazed

Gaining Strength

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 01:12:28 AM »
I discoverd EFT on the internet this fall and gave it a go for a while. 
Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll give another go.  Have you had success
doing it on your own or have you tried going to a practitioner in person
or by phone?

I'm interested in your experience.  - Thanks - Gaining Strength

Gaining Strength

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 10:15:00 AM »
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

I am sitting here at the computer.  I got up and walked away just a minute ago but I turned around and came right back.
This rescue issue is around the issue of money and the emotional garbage tied around it in my growing up. 

I learned the hard way in therapy that talking about this stuff really can unstick it.  I got so tired of talking about the same old stuff for so long that I just quit and ran away from therapy a year ago and then in a few months I got completely stuck and then it
began to unravel about the time I got here and I finally got back to therapy.  Well I have been around the world to get
across the street.

I have had lots of pain and loss in my life - as most of us here have.  But one of the things that I keep coming back to
is this issue of money.  In the past month or so I finally figured out that my father only SEEMED to be good with money.
I finally understand that he feels out of control about everything and that is why he CLUNG so hard to control it all.

Money was never and is never talked about in our family.  As a child there was plenty.  My father's family was especially wealthy and had built and lived in huge homes on large multi-acre lots.  When I went to college - the money flow stopped unless it was a
social something like debut or wedding.  But there was never a single word about the transition from receiving to not.

I just expected that at sometime there would be money but there never was.  This whole issue of never, I mean NEVER talking about money is where so much is hidden.  It is in the unconscious and I must unpack it so that I can find my release. 

I have been staying with my mother because me house is such a mess.  Everything in my life is such a mess.  I mentioned a couple of weeks ago to my mother that I didn't know how I was going to pay my property tax this year and that I was thinking about
asking my father.  He is NPD and one of his major issues is that he does not believe that offspring should ever ASK for anything.  If it were HIS idea he might.  Anyway, I learned this week that when my aunt died in september she left half of the bulk of her estate to each of her sisters and my mother's share is over $1mil.  This is all just bonus $.  She has much more that that already.  Now go figure - when I (who have no income) expressed my fears about being able to pay my property taxes this year it never occured to her to help me out.  And guess what - I can't ask.  Don't ask me why - I don't know.  It all has to do with this craziness that has me all bound up.  But I am going to think about it and write about it until I can unravel it. 

Money is the source of my greatest fear.  Money is the ultimate source of my paralysis.  Not money per se but the unspoken emotional legacy surrounding money.

It has something to do with the obvious - inadequacy, not good enough, don't deserve.  But what exactly is what I must work out.  I am right up against it.  I know that - it's as if I tap in the right location and the whole wall will tumble down and I will emerge free, but where is that specific spot.  Perhaps I can devise a systematic approach to find it.  Trust that I can find it and stop banging my head against the wall in fear and frustration.  Just keep working at it.  Believe.  Persistance is one of my strengths.  I will find it and things will get better. So many things already are. 

I hate to go.  This place is like a life line.  Being connected here is like finding sustenance in a desert. Letting go and moving on for the day is like swimming in shark infested water - it may be ok and it may result in death.  I hate logging out today.  I want to
sit here with you all and enjoy your company and support.  This fear is in some ways ridiculous but then again it is so very real.
Today I am babbling but there is no safer place to babble. 

OK, I am moving on.  See you again soon.

October

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 10:23:44 AM »

I posted about this already today but want to explore it more.  I have been thinking that wanting to be rescued has something to do with not wanting to take responsibility for my own life.  I still want that dammed prince!!!!!  Somehow I believe that this is the nut I really need to crack.  When I am not in a relationship I am so able to live a full life but as soon as a man comes into the picture I abandon myself and the life I have built up.  And I become the loving rescuerer...........NOT!

The first step for me now is to claim my life as my own and my responsibility.  I too need a plan and commit to caring for myself within that plan.  I give away so much so easily without awareness.  I justify it by saying that in a relationship people have to compromise etc. but I am not talking compromise h ere I am talking abandonment.  I have not really been aware of this before.  I live in terror of being abandoned by my partner but it is I who has abandoned me.

I would be really interested to hear others views on this.

Axa

This is a big issue for me too.  I can see the inner child in anyone else around me, which is a real problem.  (Because it stops me seeing the responsible vile adults, when I see only their inner child vulnerability.  I understand, which means that all to often I absolve before they are even aware that they are vile perps.

But I have hidden my own inner child so safely away from being hurt that I hardly know where to begin to look for her.  Let alone what to do wtih her when I find her.  Except that this hiding is in itself an act of love and compassion, so that is perhaps a beginning.   :?

The imagery is of the Jews in the ghetto, hiding a tiny baby from the Nazis.  It has to be very well hidden indeed, because the risk is honestly and truly a matter of life and death.  That is the feeling I have, in terms of bringing the inner child into the open.  It is far too dangerous, and far too painful even to think about.  Meanwhile, I look at the SS officers, and think of their humanity, and how sorry they are going to be, one of these days.

Really really really not the right way round.  I need to take a machine gun (metaphorically, that is!) to the SS, cut them all down, then drive a tank through the ghetto walls, then take my inner child and drive with her to Switzerland and run round the mountains with her singing "The hills are alive.... "

Seige mentality.  Versus breaking out of prison.  And my own prison is not of my creating, but it is certainly maintained by me, in some weird way that I have not quite fathomed.


Stormchild

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 10:31:49 AM »
((((((((((Gaining Strength))))))))))

Babble all you want. Babble all you need. It don't sound like babbling to me!!!!! ((((((((((GS))))))))))
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

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Dazed1

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2006, 12:18:38 PM »
Wow Axa,

Great topic.  I never thought about it, but guess the desire to be rescued is felt deeply in the human psyche.  There's that 1960s song "Rescue Me" and one of the lines is "hold me in your arms".  And all the Fairy Tales of damsels in distress being rescued.  Yes, I think rescue is deeply embedded in our psyche, particularly females. 

The Rescuer in the Karpman triangle:  that was me!  Last night, I read a link on triangles (The Drama Triangle: The Three Roles of Victimhood)  and,  Lord, did I see myself!!  Check it out: http://www.angriesout.com/grown20.htm.  Thanks Stormchild for bringing up the Rescuer in the Karpman triangle.

babysteps:  thanks for the tip on EFT; I'm going to look into it.  Glad to hear it helped you.

Gaining Strength:  Glad to hear your back in therapy.  And really glad (for lack of a better word) that you've zeroed in on the money issue: 

"But there was never a single word about the transition from receiving to not.

I just expected that at sometime there would be money but there never was.  This whole issue of never, I mean NEVER talking about money is where so much is hidden.  It is in the unconscious and I must unpack it so that I can find my release."


"Money is the source of my greatest fear.  Money is the ultimate source of my paralysis.  Not money per se but the unspoken emotional legacy surrounding money."

Great work, Gaining Strength!  Sounds like you will feel some freedom, liberation once you explore the money issue.  Sounds like you are on your way to a deep discovery. 

October:  Your Nazis metaphor is striking.  What if you let your inner child escape and drove her to Switzerland?  I guess she doesn't feel safer enough to try to escape?  What if you visualize your inner child being snuck out and brought to freedom?  Or, visualize that the war ended and she was freed?  Hey, what do I know?  I do not mean to play with your head or your metaphors.

Fear and rescue:  I think they are probably linked. 

Maybe the thing we fear is the thing we want to be rescued from.  Maybe once we face the fear, we may no longer feel afraid. Or, maybe we still feel afraid, but we feel stronger for having faced it.   Once we face the fear, we won't have such a great desire to be rescued or at least we are aware of the reason why we want to be rescued.

Guess what I’m saying is maybe we can’t eradicate our fears, but by facing our fears, becoming aware of our fears, naming our fears, we acknowledge the fear and that in and of itself gives us courage.  Maybe then, fear becomes just another emotion that we feel and it won’t rule us, but instead fear would co-exist with all the other emotions that we feel.  Fear will no longer have a dominate place.

Hugs to all,
dazed








October

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2006, 01:13:35 PM »
October:  Your Nazis metaphor is striking.  What if you let your inner child escape and drove her to Switzerland?  I guess she doesn't feel safer enough to try to escape?  What if you visualize your inner child being snuck out and brought to freedom?  Or, visualize that the war ended and she was freed?  Hey, what do I know?  I do not mean to play with your head or your metaphors.


As far as I can tell, my inner child is a very small baby.  (The damage was done very early.)  This is a baby which cannot speak, nor run away.  All she can do is to keep very very quiet and pretend to be dead.  The bit on the outside is me pretending to be grown up so that nobody even realises that there is a baby inside, and I do it so well that I have forgotten where she is hidden myself.

I can certainly play with metaphors of trying to find and rescue this child, but I have many more problems of imagery of nurturing her.  She is always alone, and always silent and very still.  She can sometimes cry, but she does it silently, like an adult does, so that nobody will hear.  The only 'people' who can reach this child are angels and dead relations.  Nobody else ever gets near her.  Maybe she is hidden in heaven.   :?

Sorry for the imagery.  :(

Dazed1

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2006, 02:38:37 PM »
Hi October,

No need to apologize for the imagery.  It is what it is.  I'd say your visually gifted because your images are so vivid.

I don't know enough about the subject of the inner child to be of much help.  What about working on it with a T?

dazed

Hopalong

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Re: being rescued
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2006, 03:24:40 PM »
October.

What about this.
Can you take your inner child out from her hiding place in your cloak and very, very gently and carefully hand her to the woman next to you? Just to hold?
Can you imagine us all sitting in a tight circle, haunch to haunch, having taken a solemn pledge to never, ever attack anyone's inner child, even though our "adult children" have spats sometimes?
We're like a tribe. The inner child is sacred to all of us. It's a holy responsibility.
And all of us know how frightening it can be to bring her forth in the firelight.

(I know, I'm getting carried away....Hopi Hops.)

But if you would let someone hold her just to see her, just to honor her and admire her perfection, that would be good.

(You might be sitting there feeling realllllllly tense, but after you saw the delight and love on the other women's faces, maybe you'd find that tension and fear draining away. And you could sit, adult you, seeing child-you held in very gentle hands, and be okay.)

Ask for her back the very second you need to. That's another sacred promise, no baby-jacking.

Your looney but so caring friend,

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."