Author Topic: monster or good daughter?  (Read 5214 times)

rosencrantz

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2004, 07:48:45 AM »
I 'get' what you 'get', CG.  Can I put it a slightly different way??

Every time we 'forgive' them by 'understanding', we 'disarm' ourselves so as not to inflict more pain. But we leave ourselves unprotected.

What we need to do is to forgive and understand whilst remaining fully armed against their terrorism...  :idea:

If only 'knowing' could be the same as being able to carry it off!!!  :(
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Portia

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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2004, 11:26:13 AM »
Eee gads, the last few threads have had me riveted. Oh Wildflower, this is painful:

Quote
She stopped needing me because I wasn’t there and her friend was. Her friend is gone, now it’s me again. Gosh. That's really all I am to her?

Here’s some more pain and very tough, opinionated talking from me: you are absolutely correct – in one sense.

But here’s the rub: you know what unconditional love is? She doesn’t and never will. She fights for some kind of survival: she does not see feelings through your eyes. So: “That's really all I am to her?” Yes, but that’s all she needs! That is exactly what she needs and no more. Can I make this clearer? She is incapable of any more: it has nothing to do with your relationship…SHE is incapable. You are capable of a different kind of love….but she is not!

How can this make you feel better? Because it’s not YOU that’s the problem. And therefore you are not the answer either. You’re not the bad guy here….you’re just another guy! She does not – can not –see you any differently. Therefore – you cannot hurt her, or help her, any more than anyone else can!

“That's really all I am to her?”  It’s difficult not to let emotions project more….which is why I like a quasi-scientific approach. What is she like with others? And as my OH likes to remind me: you are not your parents! Some of their genes are in you, but you are a separate person of your own.

Wildflower: I value you here….lots & lots & lots! P

rosencrantz

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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2004, 12:45:52 PM »
I'd like to refine what I said in my last post above.

What we could do (if we wanted to, if it were worth the candle, if 'they' were worth it, if integrity forced us to do so) is to forgive and understand whilst remaining fully armed against their terrorism...

That feels better!
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Wildflower

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2004, 04:50:07 PM »
gurgle…gurgle….rrrrrr

rrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRR

OMG!!  It’s my turn to be the idiot around here.  She beat the crap out of me emotionally!!!  

 :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

I just couldn't see/admit this.  I don't know why.

This one little memory, tugging away.  Tug.  Tug, tug.  YANK!!!

On my road trip across country, I was traveling with an exchange student from Holland who had been staying in my old room during my first year of college.  Never having met, we planned the trip for a couple of months.  How nice of mom to let me do something like this?  No, no.  No.  She never let me do anything like this growing up.  But she adored the exchange student, and the student wanted to use my car across country.  It was a blast, don’t get me wrong, but I was just a hitch.  It was my car, so I was ‘included’ in the plans. :evil:  :evil:

Well, we called to check in one night from a pay phone.  I talked to her first.  The usual banging my head against the phone with frustration type conversation.  The student got on after me.  I overheard the student saying, “She’s fine.  No really, I’m not having any problems.  We’re getting along fine.”  I was horrified.  And humiliated.  I asked the student what my mom had said, and she actually told me.  She said that my mom was really worried about the student because I was so difficult to be around.  (My heart is pounding!!  Breathe).  Over the course of the trip, the student and I got along pretty well, and we even talked a bit about my mom.  The student confessed that my mom was a little ‘trying’ and she could see my side of the argument.  I don’t even remember what I could have been saying at that point.

OOOOOOOOOOOOW.  Ow.  Ow.  Ow.

They're flooding in.  Have to keep them at bay until I get home later tonight, but I’ll never turn my back on them again.

Damn it.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Wildflower

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2004, 05:40:47 PM »
Okay.  Whew.  The world has stopped shaking for the moment.  I stepped away.  Gathered myself.  And what do I come back to?  This great board and the wonderful people on it.   :D I just want to say thank you to everyone who was right there as I was posting this.

And I want to say, I'm going to be okay.  I couldn't deal with this when I was younger, but it's time now.  I can be furious with her without ruining my life now.  Because I have a life now.

I'll be back.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

rosencrantz

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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2004, 06:19:35 PM »
^5

(I've been looking all over the shop for a cheerleading emoticon - nada - here's a High Five instead!!!)
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Wildflower

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2004, 01:30:13 AM »
I posted an episode over the weekend, then I deleted it.  A part of me wants to delete what I wrote today.  Because I’m so afraid someone will stand up and say, you spoiled brat!  You had it so easy, and all you do is complain.  You have no idea how many good things were given to you, and yet all you do is see the negative.  Feel sorry for yourself.  Apparently, I don’t need anyone else to say that.  It’s all in me.

And what brought this on?  I was thinking about how scrunched up my writing and thinking is when it’s about Mom.  It’s not how I feel about other things.  I’m reaching out everywhere else.  Happily oozing out.  Peering out with new eyes wondering, who’s that person?  I wonder if I like that?  This subject?  No.  I’ve got it strapped down.  Like R’s analogy of a bunch of belts keeping everything in place.  I don’t want to be scrunched up anymore.

And then there’s the fear of poisoning myself.  These memories are resting and I’m functioning in society.  Better and better each day, in fact.  Why disturb them?  Am I some masochist?  Do I need to be suffering?

No.  As I made my way home tonight, and as I prepared to go back out the door to meet friends (trying to collect myself), I thought no.  Defiantly no.  I don’t want to be sick.  I don’t want to be miserable.  I want this to end.  I want control.  She’s not allowed in my head anymore.  So I’m going to understand why this, of all the bad memories, came at me today.  The two of us are going to have a talk, me and this memory.

It was just a simple misunderstanding, right?  My mom was concerned. It just happens that she wasn’t worried about me.  No.  She was worried about a woman she barely knew.  Someone she wanted to be friends with.  The message was clear.  She had sent this friend out into the world with her demon daughter.  It was personal.  There was clearly something wrong with ME.  I had worked so hard to be a good daughter.  It was critical to me.  As I said in an earlier post, I believed that if I couldn’t get my mom to love me, I couldn’t expect anyone else to, either.  And here, my own mother was so afraid of how I might hurt people she hardly knew, she was consoling them on the phone.  In front of me.  I was obviously a complete failure who had no place in the world.  I was obviously someone to fear.  I was a monster.

A monster she bragged about to her friends.  I so don’t get this.  She would tell me how her friends said such great things about me, and then point out things I’d done to embarrass her.  Like asking what kind of milk her friend had when she offered, and when her friend said whole, I declined.  Mom was horrified.  I got a long lecture about it on the way home.

At home, it was me sitting anxiously on the couch watching TV with her.  When I wasn’t hiding in my room, that is.  And I wasn’t allowed to hide in my room when boyfriends were over.  “Come out and see X.  Don’t be so rude.  Come see him.  He wants to see you.”  I’d come out, and then she’d flirt with him in front of me, often making me the butt of her jokes.  Every now and then, her boyfriend would take pity on me and turn the tough jokes on her, and then the spotlight would fall on him.

But back to the couch.  I remember being there quite a bit.  I was eating to bury my pain.  I have stretch marks but no children.  My battle scars.  There was nothing but junk food in the house.  Mom could eat anything and not gain weight.  Burgers at fast food places.  Mashed potatoes.  Fritos.  Scrambled eggs.  Cereal.  Cheese Nips.  Whatever soft drink she was currently craving.  We didn’t have meals.  We ate in front of the TV.  Every now and then she would say, “stop eating,” in an irritated voice.  My grandmother put me into various programs during the summers, and she would sneak up on me and poke my shoulder blades to see how much fat was there.  Just checking my progress.
 
[About my grandmother.  If she was so terrible, why did my mom send me there every time she went out on a date?  I’m just curious.  And if my dad was so abusive that my mom left him to take care of me, why did she send me to visit him even after I begged her not to make me go because he was drinking too much?  Wondering.]

But the couch (I can’t stay here).  This is where I got most of the criticism.  “Don’t be ugly.”  That was her favorite.  “You don’t like anyone, do you?”  “Why can’t you be nice?”  “Don’t be rude.”  “Don’t breathe like that.”   “No wonder you don’t have any friends.”

So I hid in my room and cried a lot.  She hated that.  Frustrated her no end.  I was so sensitive.  Overreacting.  Getting bent out of shape about nothing.  She ignored me mostly, but every now and then she would come in and … well… I knew she just wanted me to stop crying.
 
In one of the journal entries I uncovered while trying to understand why I couldn’t be angry with her, I read a note to self:  I pursue relationships with men even when it’s obvious they’re not interested.  Just like I used to eagerly jump on Mom’s bed knowing that she would tell me to go away, but every now and then, she wanted me to be there.  Every now and then, she would read to me.

So she didn’t torture me or beat me.  She was irresponsible, but it wasn't just that.  My mother rejected me over and over and over again.  No matter what I did.  Starting when I was 8, when I was being ‘like your father’.  When I was ‘powerful’ like my grandmother.  I oppressed her.  But I kept on trying to be the right daughter for her.  

And that’s what I’m still trying to do now, isn’t it?  In spite of everything?  If I take care of her, she'll get well, and maybe finally love me?  If I take care of her, maybe she'll finally see that I'm not a bad person?

I know this is a lot, and I’m sorry this is so personal.  I just had to say these things.  Make them real, I guess.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2004, 02:02:14 AM »
Quote from: Wildflower


On my road trip across country, I was traveling with an exchange student from Holland who had been staying in my old room during my first year of college.  Never having met, we planned the trip for a couple of months.  How nice of mom to let me do something like this?  No, no.  No.  She never let me do anything like this growing up.  But she adored the exchange student, and the student wanted to use my car across country.  It was a blast, don’t get me wrong, but I was just a hitch.  It was my car, so I was ‘included’ in the plans. :evil:  :evil:

Well, we called to check in one night from a pay phone.  I talked to her first.  The usual banging my head against the phone with frustration type conversation.  The student got on after me.  I overheard the student saying, “She’s fine.  No really, I’m not having any problems.  We’re getting along fine.”  I was horrified.  And humiliated.  I asked the student what my mom had said, and she actually told me.  She said that my mom was really worried about the student because I was so difficult to be around.  (My heart is pounding!!  Breathe).  Over the course of the trip, the student and I got along pretty well, and we even talked a bit about my mom.  The student confessed that my mom was a little ‘trying’ and she could see my side of the argument.  I don’t even remember what I could have been saying at that point.

Wildflower


Hi Wildflower,

I just don't know what to say, which swear words seem most appropriate, or which string of insults to hurl at your mother first. "Shit what an insensitive bitch," just seems so lame. I'd have said to her, "Why don't you divorce me and adopt the dutch kid, you'd be happier."

Instead of thinking about this incident again, wouldn't it just be easier to down a bottle of scoth, then crush the glass bottle under your bare feet and then eat it. And when it passes out the other end you'll get the general idea of how it'll feel once you've re-lived it - and then give it a miss. And you'll have experienced pretty much the same thing as re-living it anyway, but the scotch will at least numb the pain a bit.

I'm catching up on your posts

(hug)

CG

Wildflower

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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2004, 04:03:25 AM »
Are you listening mother?  No?  Too bad, cos I'm gonna tell you anyway.

Quote
"'In almost all cases, it is the psychological consequences of an act that define that act as abusive,' whether that act is sexual or physical abuse, or merely an assault on the spirit.

A child who believes she is to blame for the fact that her mother does not love her, or cannot demonstrate love for her - and that she deserves the harsh or cruel or indifferent treatment she receives - is a psychologically maltreated child."  - When You and Your Mother Can't Be Friends, p. 24.  


I didn't deserve to be treated that way.  I was a good kid.  I cared about people.  I cared even more about animals.  I defended my friends.  I stood up for what I thought was right.  I was a child.  You took all that away from me.  Well, I've got it back now, and you'll never EVER take it away from me again.  NEVER. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

I have friends I care about.  I love people again.  I am kind to people.  I'm out in the world again.  You wanna join me?  Find your own way out. :!:

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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monster or good daughter?
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2004, 04:32:07 AM »
WOW!! Can I use that too! That made me feel so empowered (and man, I really hate that word) when I read it.

I'm standing here, pumped and cheering, "GO WILDFLOWER, GO WILDFLOWER. GO WILDFLOWER. GO WILDFLOWER"

(big  :D hug)

CG

Wildflower

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« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2004, 04:50:23 AM »
Thanks CG!  :D :D  ( CG :D )

I'm back out of the spirit world covered with red jello!!  It felt good - and right - to say that.  And of course you can you use it!!  I seriously couldn't have done it without you and the other musketeers and the other wonderful people here!!  :D :D :D

Time to SLEEP!

Good night.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude