monster or good daughter?

[Wildflower]

I made my first posting last night in order to find help for my mom, but now I’m in over my head again, and I need help myself.

My mother fights me when I try to help her.  She fights everyone.  I understand why.  She had a terribly abusive N mother who taught her that if someone gets involved in her life, there must be a trick, or there’s something they want to change about her, something not good enough about her, some way she’s failed.  She still doesn’t understand what it means to have people truly care about her – no strings attached.  

Because my childhood was so confusing, I don’t always trust my memories of what happened, but I have learned that the way people behave now is a pretty good indication of how they behaved back then, and if she’s resistant to me now, my memories of her resistance when I was little make more sense.  She has always been terrified that someone would interfere with her life – myself included.  But a child has to interfere with their parents’ lives in order to be fed and read to and played with and consoled, right?  So often when I wasn’t mothering her or listening to stories about my grandmother, I was a burden, or worse, a clone of my N father or N grandmother.  And in her mind, the reason my N father and N grandmother got that way was because they were spoiled, never disciplined, allowed to have tantrums.  When I was 8 and going through a really bad time after the loss of a man I consider to be my true (as in practicing) father, she scolded me and insisted that I would NOT be like my father.  So to make a long story kind of short, not only was I denied the ability to grieve over my loss, I was told that I was a monster to do so, and I was trained to keep my emotions under control at all costs.  Trained to resist what I was already pre-destined to be – because I shared the blood of Ns and I was a dead-ringer for my father.  I never had a chance.

But my mother needs help now.  She’s severely depressed and having trouble finding any value in her life.  When it comes to my N grandmother and N father, I’ve learned to harden myself to their suicide threats because I have little to no doubt that they are using these threats when they’ve tried everything else to get attention.  I’m not so sure my mother can be ignored though.  I became concerned that she might be suicidal after a kind of scary email from her at the end of this week in which she hinted at giving away all of her possessions.  I was finally able to get through to her tonight (she was screening her calls), but when I tried to talk to her about how she was doing, she immediately became defensive and started accusing me of thinking she’s a failure or interfering with her life.  I had to yell, “we love you and we care about you and that’s why we’re here,” to get her to stop and hear me.  How helpful can it possibly be to have someone yell at you when you’re upset?  And yet, it’s really the only way I’ve ever been able to get through to her over the years.  But now I feel like a horrible monster.  Am I just adding to her pain and making her even more depressed and miserable?  What if I said something wrong?  What if I’m just making it that much harder for the next person who tries to help her?  What if she's right and I’m really doing all the things my grandmother did to hurt her?

     

[rosencrantz]

Hello Wildflower - I think I was posting to your other thread at the same time you posted a new one.  I think you may find some answers there in the Breaking the N Chain thread to the issues you raise here.  

I do understand where you're at Wildflower.  It's so very confusing all this N/ACON stuff.  We seem to end up all as 'bad' as each other.  

I certainly reached a crisis point where it seemed to me that she made me ill AND I made her ill.  That was part of the reason I stayed away so long.  I feared for MY sanity but when I first felt strong enough to handle her again, I feared that MY sanity would damage HERS.  There's more than a grain of truth in that but it doesn't mean giving up your own sanity.  It just means 'letting go'.  (Replace the word 'sanity' with a better one to relate it to you own experience!)

You understand her - let me validate your understanding of both her and the Ns in your life.  But you do also attach strings - you want her to be different.  I know you want her to be 'healthy' and 'better' and 'alive' and those are 'good' things.  But they are your priorities, not necessarily hers. If you think about it, she's right, after all, that you think she's a failure and that you want to interfere with her life!  You may have a different motive to the Ns in her life, but she can still only interpret it from that point of view.  

What would happen if you admitted the truth (sharp intake of breath).  "Yes, I do think you've failed in the sense that (....) and that makes me feel that I've failed YOU and that hurts so much and makes me feel so helpless and yet I think you want me to be strong and make things better for you. And I just don't know what to do to help any more but I think I should know what to do...what should I do to help you?" ?????

Practice becoming the child again!!!!!

Let me reiterate - you are not a bad person, you are not an N, and you are not a monster.  And when you were a child, you didn't get your appropriate needs met appropriately.  You've got more than enough on your plate to sort out that legacy - and it's partly that legacy that has you doing what you're trying to do for your mother.  

Can you ask her if you can help rather than deciding that she needs help and trying to work out the kind of help she needs???  In getting rid of stuff - you may have heard her correctly or maybe she was thinking in terms of a healthy de-clutter.  Either way, from her perspective, she was wrong, wrong wrong again!!! (The Four Agreements apply!)  

Teachers raise a child's self-esteem by picking only on what they've done well, no caveats, ifs or buts.  I once congratulated my mother on some small thing she did for herself and she was overwhelmed and so, so grateful.  It clearly meant a lot.  And it gave me a whole new perspective of what her AIM was in creating chaos and confusion.

You can both be right even tho one might be 'healthier' than the other.

But you gotta 'let go', dear.  You gotta 'hear' that the outside world is a threat to your mother.  She needs to take her own small steps in the way that she's most comfortable with.
R

[Guest again]

Hi Wildflower,
No you're most definitely not a monster. Guilt can make our thinking fuzzy. When you yelled at your mother it's probably because your so taxed and emotionally drained by her, your father and so much of what your life has handed you. These people are not your responsibility to fix. We all want our family members to be okay, but sometimes we can't do anything about the state that they find themselves in. They were like this before you came along. Your mother needs professional help Wildflower. She really does, and that is the hard truth. You can't give her what she needs. She may not even want to get help, or she may be that far down that she doesn't care anymore. You blame your grandmother for this, and it's probably true, but you can't fix that either. They were enmeshed in their dance long before you were even thought of. You are now caught up in this unholy dance and I'm sure it's taking a terrible toll on you. You've said something about your mother always being needy I think. Well what about your needs, your life, your happiness and peace of mind. Do you know these are your first priorities. No-one else is going to make these a priority if you don't. Sounds selfish at first till you think about the big picture. What good are you to anybody else if you don't take care of yourself, first and foremost. Look at your mother as an example. That is how people end up when they don't stand up and decide to make a life for themselves, and go after all the good things that life has to offer, when the victim mentality takes control. Self-destruction stemming from guilt and self-pity, which stems from being abused is  deadly cycle. The greatest gift that you can give yourself and your family is to break free from the cycle of abuse that you are now being subjected to. You have somehow been given or been passed the mantle of family emotional physician. You're to try to be the restorer and repairer or die in the attempt. All these expectations have found their way onto your shoulders to sort out 3 or 4 generations of irresponsible abuse and neglect by these women and you have either consciously or sub-consciously accepted this role. Wildflower, it's not your job. It would be lovely if it were possible, but the only repair that will or can ever come from you will be to the next generation, your children, neices and nephews, not backwards to the past generations. You have to start here with you. From where you stand now and say, "No more." Learn from the past, but remove from yourself the responsibility of trying to change it or fix it. You can't. Your mother needs help, and you can't give her the help she would like, which is for you to do and take care of everything for the rest of her life. This could only happen if you are truly happy to sacrifice your own life for her. No loving mother would ever want this. Many people here talk about boundaries and the setting of boundaries. It must come down to this if we are going to break the cycle of abuse for our future generations. This may require you finding a good therapist for yourself too. And reading stories and participating here can help so much too. Set new standards for your life, aim high, seek life and respect. Expect, give and receive positive dignified treatment in our relationships and continue to learn and grow and make friends and trust. Our job is to create new environments for our families, our children particularly, where they grow and thrive and feel safe and secure. This is the greates gift you can give to those women who have failed you in this. Learn from them, don't become them, break the cycle and change history for your and your children's sake. You have my heartfelt best wishes and I wish you well.

Guest again

[Wildflower]

Thank you guys so much for listening and helping me see straight.  I know I just started posting to this site and it’s a flood, so thanks for taking the time to wade through my muddled thoughts.

"Yes, I do think you've failed in the sense that (....) and that makes me feel that I've failed YOU and that hurts so much and makes me feel so helpless and yet I think you want me to be strong and make things better for you. And I just don't know what to do to help any more but I think I should know what to do...what should I do to help you?"

That hit such a deep nerve, Rosencrantz, and in that one question, I think you’ve put in a nutshell all the issues my heart and brain are trying to reconcile when it comes to my mom.  Your comments (and your shared experience) really are very helpful.  [Just occurred to me while submitting this: I assumed that you were asking me to admit this to myself, but are you suggesting that it may be something I admit to her - and be a child with her?]

It’s been a rough year watching her decline, but I tell myself helplessly watching that decline is going to be the hardest part (for me, certainly not for her).  I have one other family member working through this with me and we’ve tried to let go by setting thresholds for ourselves – limits past which we can no longer watch her suffer.  He has his limits, and apparently mine was the thought of her disappearing completely and I wasn’t prepared for it – even after all that thinking.

So I’ve been slipping into old habits this weekend.  I’d probably feel better if I could contact a clinic near her and talk about options - if only for the future - but that’ll have to wait until they open up again tomorrow.  In my impatience and worried state, I made a big mistake calling her and trying to talk through this.  I wanted to hear her voice to be able to gauge where she was and whether immediate intervention would be necessary, but I need to learn that I’m simply not qualified to make that analysis, and that by opening up the doors to this subject with her, I constantly risk hurting both of us.

She did ask me for help in that email, but it was a kind of help I couldn’t give her.  She needs money that I don’t have to give, and even if I did, it seems to me that it would be like holding her hand and allowing her to stay crippled.  I know that she’s angry with me, though.  I know from the way she talks about my relative that she thinks we’re punishing her.

It may be that some day she’ll want the advice I have to offer, that she’ll want to know how I struggled through.  And then I can give her the help I have to offer.  But until then, I don’t have anything to give.  And now I just have to cross my fingers and hope she finds a way out of this.  And brace myself for dealing with what happens if she doesn’t.

And to Guest again, thanks for reinforcing the point that I need to get myself well first.  I think that’s partly why I’m struggling so much, as ironic as this may sound.   My life (outside of this issue) has gotten so much better over the past four or five years thanks to a good therapist.  It started with being able to go out in public without feeling like everyone was judging me and able to see how pathetic or horrible I was.  Now I can interact freely and positively with everyone I see on a regular basis in my neighborhood, and that world is constantly expanding.  That was a huge step, but a very hard one.  And over the past year, I’ve finally been having success with truly listening to my own wants and responding to them – and I’m discovering all kinds of wonderful things (not at all monsterly wants!) that I really truly enjoy.  So while my mother is sliding into darkness, I’m out in the world like a small, innocent child picking flowers and happy just to be singing as I skip down the street.  And as much as I know I have to keep skipping along, it’s breaking my heart right now and making me feel so guilty.

Again, thank you all for your support - and just being there writing your own stories.

Wildflower

[surf14]

HI Wildflower;
   the above replies were voiced so well by others.  In regards to  your mother's depression:  sometimes depressed people resist help from others if they are feeling suicidal because they feel like taking their lives and not having to deal with the consequensces of how it will affect others; their pain is so intense they  may rationalize  that its OK to end their lives, that no one really cares.   Please, keep telling her how much she means to you and that you couldn't bear it if she were to take her life.  Follow this up by trying to get her to a clinic to talk with someone.  Often what seems impossible to deal with or fix now can be seen and handled in a different light  at another time when things are not so overwhelming.   If you feel she is genuinely in danger of harming herself but will not respond to your pleas to seek assistance you can have her court committed to a hospital for her own safety in order for her to receive treatment. (may have to call 911 and have the ambulance come and take her)  About your grandparents:  N's seldom commit suicide  (for obvious reasons) but of course they threaten it for attention.  Good luck and be well.

[rosencrantz]

I assumed that you were asking me to admit this to myself, but are you suggesting that it may be something I admit to her - and be a child with her?]

Absolutely!  Be 'accurate' about what you feel, search to share what you feel, if you can, without blame if you can, rather than be 'strong' and 'in charge'.  You are the child; you are the daughter.  Let's get these things the right was round for once!!!

I reiterate, you are not responsible.  And I disagree with guest - it is not your responsibility to make decisions about committal or clinics or to invite interference from others.  Your mother is an independent woman and she has told you clearly that she does not want interference in her life.  If you accept that, you can tell her you accept it, let her know that you respect her decision but maybe you can share your fear as well.  Talk about what you fear - yes, say the word 'suicide', bring it out into the open.  Feel YOUR pain.  And let it be.  

She's making contact with you and I think she wants your warmth (maybe even your forgiveness???).  I realise there are practical aspects, but what is asking for money but asking to be loved!!  Give her your 'unconditional' love if you can.  Give her a hug if you can.  Tell her she's done the best she knows how, if you can find it in your heart.  I know that what I'd want from my son is a great big hug, acceptance and some quiet companionable moments.

But don't blame yourself for ANYTHING.

And congratulations on the huge steps forward you have made.  Above all, first and foremost, protect the small, innocent child picking flowers and happy just to be singing.  

[surf14]

Wildflower, you will have to judge for yourself if your intervention is needed.  Your Mother would be best left to work out her problems on her own as long as you (you may be the closest one to her) ascertain first and foremost that she is 'safe'. With a family member that may be 'sinking' her safety is going to be the primary concern ie you may have to save her from herself whether she wants this or not, depending on the seriousness of her condition.  This is a terrible responsibility but again depends on how serious her mental state is.

[Anonymous]

Hi Wildflower, it's me again, and I was curious how this part of your life is going. So instead of trying to remember it all and write it out with questions I just bought up the (Gosh it's been 5 weeks since we hashed this) old thread about your mum. Hope you don't mind, but I have been wondering how's this side of your life is working out.

Please - I feel a bit nosey. If it's too annoying or draining or any one of a million different types of intrusions on my part, please please, don't worry about it. You can leave it for another time if you even want to. Up to you.

CG

[Wildflower]

Hi Guest,

You know, I was in so much pain when I wrote the first message in this thread.  I was crying so hard I could hardly write.      The phone call I’d had with my mother that night took me back to so many places in my childhood.  So many really bad places.  But that emotion doesn’t come through to me when I read this.  I was struggling so hard with trying to be a good, supportive, understanding daughter while getting beaten up by my suicidal mother?  Who’d believe that?!  I couldn't say what I was feeling.  These were just the words that got squished out.

I yelled at my mom quite a bit that night.  I mean yelled in the sense that if I used a normal voice she’d talk over me.  I literally had to scream once or twice to keep her from interrupting me so that I could get one sentence out.  I was in a complete panic that she was one foot out the door – and I was only pushing her that last bit more.  When I got off the phone with her, I felt I had killed her. I felt like a horrible selfish daughter who’d just pushed her hurting mother over the edge.  

I watched Second Hand Lions a day or so later, curled up in a ball, needing the idealism of a cheesy family movie to make me believe everything would be okay, if only for a little while.  In that movie, the kid yells at his uncle who was hinting at ending his life that he better not do anything.  The kid was a complete wreck, and I saw that's how I'd felt when I yelled at her at the very end, "Don't you DARE do anything to hurt yourself!!  Don't DO this to me!!  I'd never forgive you!!"  And then I immediatly felt horrible about THAT.  Don't do this to ME??  I'd never forgive YOU?  I was so, so desparate, though.    

You know, it took three weeks to finally admit to my therapist that at one point I even found myself begging her to stop treating me like I was bullying her.  I was so ashamed of that.  I felt like “God, what is WRONG with me???  In the middle of HER crisis, here I am forcing my issues on her.”

I see now how sick she was making me.  I remember how my body rebelled.  I know there’s another wave coming up soon.  So I’ve been digging. Fortifying myself.  Not my shell, but my insides.  I’ve been trying to see/hear/feel what my therapist hinted at – that I can’t see how my mother hurts me because my emotions get in the way.  Her sickness has always hurt me.  And in some ways, it was a weapon.  I had forgotten some of this.  But I’m starting to see cracks in the story of just how sick she is.  I know she’s not well, but (one of my land mines), I think she may have been putting on more of a show when I needed her.  She seemed to have found quite a bit of energy to do what she really wanted to do.  That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it?  Ugh.

Anyway, that’s all emotional stuff.  What about the reality of things?  The truth is, I don’t really know.  I can’t trust her to tell me the truth – the important details.  Not until the very last minute in the form of crisis, that is.  She’s been quiet for a while because the last crisis (foreclosure on the house, all the utilities being shut off, having no food) was averted.  

My relative paid her lawyer to re-file her bankruptcy claim (to prevent foreclosure).   I helped out with food (and will continue to do so for as long as she needs it- it’s the least I can do).  Her therapist friend gave her sympathy.  She squeaked by and made it through the last crisis.  And two nights ago, she sent me an email saying “I'm going back into crisis mode very soon”.  Don’t get me wrong.  I know she’s in a tough place.  I’ve been there.  I’ve been that poor.  It’s horribly stressful.  And here, folks, is my merry-go-round.  She’s made bad choices…but it’s a bad economy…

I see homeless people differently now.  I’ve always been respectful.  I’ve always been aware that bad things happen to people, and sometimes so bad that they end up not being able to take care of themselves.  Now, though, I can’t help thinking about just how close she is to the homeless people I see.  It really scares me.

Blech.

You know.  I thought it might be too draining, and I made a promise to cut out if I started feeling sick.  It's yucky, yes.  But, well, I dunno...things seem different now.  I feel stronger. Sigh.

Thanks for asking me to look at this again, CG.  I really mean that.  I think I needed another chance to express what was going on that night.

Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

May I?

I even found myself begging her to stop treating me like I was bullying her.

Does this remind you of the triangle thing and how the victim makes people around them into rescuers then persecutors?  The way out is to become a 'real' persecutor' and leave them to it.  I think you were on the right track.  But if she can't take responsibility to stop treating you that way, I suggest just taking yourself out of the loop.  Put the phone down!

That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.

I didn't notice that until you mentioned it - and I STILL couldn't see it afterwards, either.  The answer is NO.  But I do recognise having been through the same permanent guilt trip.  Just don't 'go there'!!  It's not worth beating yourself up in that way.  

Don’t get me wrong. I know she’s in a tough place. I’ve been there. I’ve been that poor. It’s horribly stressful.

I accept that the unconscious can keep us down.  But you can struggle to get out of that bad place, whatever it is.  I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.  You got out of that bad place, too.  If someone is struggling to 'get out' then you can give them a helping hand.  Some people just want to drag you down with them; some people want to stay in the same place cos it feels safe.  It's a choice.  As you change, she may change too.  I don't suggest banking on it but while you help her stay where she is (irr-esp-ons-ible) then she gets reinforcement for the 'bad behaviour'.

I suppose you could try the 'I'll have all of you' lens and love her for the 'bad' bits as well as the good - but leave her to get on with it.

I'm totally astounded at that email!!!  I think I'd write back and say 'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you.  What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!    Would that sound cruel to you?  It sounds totally rational to me!!!  Child/parent - who's who???????

Hope I haven't 'overstepped'!!

Now, I really MUST get the family on the road!!!!!!  My H is giving me one of his 'looks'!!!  

TTFN
R

[Anonymous]

And then I know there’s another wave coming up soon.  So I’ve been digging. Fortifying myself.  Not my shell, but my insides.  I’ve been trying to see/hear/feel what my therapist hinted at – that I can’t see how my mother hurts me because my emotions get in the way.  Her sickness has always hurt me.  And in some ways, it was a weapon.  I had forgotten some of this.  But I’m starting to see cracks in the story of just how sick she is.  I know she’s not well, but (one of my land mines), I think she may have been putting on more of a show when I needed her.  She seemed to have found quite a bit of energy to do what she really wanted to do.  That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it?  Ugh.

Anyway, that’s all emotional stuff.  What about the reality of things?  The truth is, I don’t really know.  I can’t trust her to tell me the truth – the important details.  Not until the very last minute in the form of crisis, that is.  She’s been quiet for a while because the last crisis (foreclosure on the house, all the utilities being shut off, having no food) was averted.  
Wildflower

Hi Wildflower, and phew   , I'm so glad you were okay with me dredging this thread up. Thanks for replying too.

It all sounds so uncertain to me. You know there's another wave coming soon. How do you stop your emotions from getting in the way, though?

I have a few home spun techniques, but I'd be interested to know what you'll do or intend to do with this next round that you know is coming?

You said her sickness has always hurt you, and in some ways it's a weapon.  So the picture is, you are completely at a loss to know what to do to, for, or with her. So you get hurt.

That must place a tremendous burden (monkey on your back) on your shoulders which screams at you, "If you knew what to do to, for, or with her she wouldn't be like this, in this spot, and you wouldn't get hurt. So it's all your fault. You're responsible"

What your therapist hinted at about not being able to see how your mother hurts you and what's happening to you because your emotions get in the way. Did she mean by emotions your love and concern for your mother, or the emotions of pain you experience from the whole life experience with your mother? Or all of the above?

Gosh Wildflower, I'm rooting for you. I hope that you keep on building the internal fortitude and resistance. Sounds like you're gonna need it. Gee that was bleak wasn't it. Sorry. Even if you don't need it, it's good to be prepared, right? Right.
 
Phew! Let me give you a hug ( &   ) (that's your face
the first one, and that's me, the next one.)

CG

[Portia]

Hi Wildflower, you’re an example to us all, just look at yourself and feel very proud.

I read this different to R:

That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.

I thought you were talking about your mother and the answer is a resounding yes. She does sound like that child and probably IS.

But R also said:

think I'd write back and say 'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you. What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!

Bravo! That’s such a manipulative email from your mum. You could add to R’s suggestion: “and I plan to have my own breakdown around the same time; I’m relying on you to be strong for ME”. Okay, that is overstepping…just to make a point.

It’s a fine line between being ok in society and being on the street. I’m aware of this all the time. I look at people with their big debts, relying on their pressured jobs, buying their status cars and think: how you expose yourselves to ruin! And how you tie yourselves to money! We had ex-stockbrokers on the streets in London after the last crash. I’m off again. Sorry. Anyway, a chap approached me once ‘can you spare some change?’ ‘No, but I’ve got a banana in my bag, do you want it?’ (I had got one.)  ‘Er…no thanks, I don’t eat bananas’. (Thinks: tough then! Your choice. No banana for you.)

Just read: “I'm going back into crisis mode very soon”. The ‘mode’ word is interesting – state of mind, not state of food or finance? How does she know in advance? Or does she mean food etc? I’m interested, do you know? And has she ‘warned’ anyone else, or is it just you that gets this treatment? Grrr!

PS. ((((WF  CG ))))      P

[Wildflower]

I accept that the unconscious can keep us down. But you can struggle to get out of that bad place, whatever it is. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. You got out of that bad place, too. If someone is struggling to 'get out' then you can give them a helping hand. Some people just want to drag you down with them; some people want to stay in the same place cos it feels safe. It's a choice.

There it is.  I had to let this sink in, but there’s the key to what keeps me bound to her in confusion.   Even if we don’t know what’s making us feel bad, even if we don’t know how to fix it, we can know something’s wrong.  And we can struggle to find answers.  We can find the courage in ourselves to face our fears, our demons.  Or we can choose to stay with what’s familiar.

"If you knew what to do to, for, or with her she wouldn't be like this, in this spot, and you wouldn't get hurt. So it's all your fault. You're responsible"

I thought she just didn’t know how to pull herself out.  I thought she just couldn’t see the door.  Her abuse was worse than mine.  I thought I owed it to her to help her out since things were easier for me and I found a way out.  Wrong, wrong, WRONG!

Mom knows she was abused.  She tells the same stories over and over – but she doesn’t want to understand them.  She wants sympathy.    Who will feel sorry for her if she gets well?  She knows that she’ll be out of money soon.  She knows that if she doesn’t get a job soon, she won’t be able to pay for the house, pay the utilities, pay medical bills.  She used to know that her mother would step in.  She finally cut her mother out, so that stopped.  She used to know that her friend would lend her money.  He finally got fed up with feeling used, so that stopped.  My relative and I are all that’s left, and we know we can’t allow her to run from her problems anymore.  That would be condemning her more than it would be helping her.  

‘can you spare some change?’ ‘No, but I’ve got a banana in my bag, do you want it?’ (I had got one.) ‘Er…no thanks, I don’t eat bananas’. (Thinks: tough then! Your choice. No banana for you.)

She is surrounded by people who care about her.  We have all tried to offer helpful suggestions, ways she can make more money until a job comes along (like rent out her extra room).  She makes excuses.   Her sickness IS her excuse.  We offer our experiences with similar situations, and we try to tell her that we understand where she’s coming from.  She twists our support into criticism.   She uses her victimhood to force us to rescue her then be her persecutors (yes, I see it now R).  She doesn’t hear (maybe she really can’t) that we really do understand, and we really do want the best for her – for HER.  Not for us.  Whatever that is.  And yes, with a string attached - that she find a way to take care of herself.  To be responsible.

Even if she can’t tell up from down, even if she’s lost, even if she was terribly abused, she still has to decide to make her own way out.  And this is NOT too much to ask.  This is NOT expecting the impossible from her.  It’s NOT like asking a 4-year-old to solve a calculus problem.  She has the ability to get well.  Now I see that.  She’s intelligent, and she has people around her who care about her and want the best for her.  But she doesn’t want to help herself out of this.  She wants someone to take care of her – without telling her what to do.

That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.

I did originally write that about myself, but it really is about her, isn’t it?  

'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you. What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!

“and I plan to have my own breakdown around the same time; I’m relying on you to be strong for ME”.

This is all right on, not overstepping a bit.  I laughed at the bit about planning to have my own breakdown during her crisis, but you know what?  It’s kind of true.  I probably will have a little bit of a breakdown in the next wave.  Hopefully only little.  In my dreams, not at all.  And before I started working through all this, I probably would have put my feelings aside during that breakdown because my feelings aren't ‘as important as hers'.  She’s the one who’s suffering, not me (wrong).  She suffered so much more than I did as a child (irrelevant.  Really??  Really!).

What your therapist hinted at about not being able to see how your mother hurts you and what's happening to you because your emotions get in the way. Did she mean by emotions your love and concern for your mother, or the emotions of pain you experience from the whole life experience with your mother? Or all of the above?

She meant, I think, mostly my love and concern for her, and maybe some of the pain that causes all the guilt/confusion.  I do love my mother, in spite of all the yucky stuff.  I have moments of awareness in which I become so, so angry with her, and then guilt overwhelms me and I collapse into hating myself.  And I resolve to shove all my ‘bad thoughts’ about her down.  Way down.  I forget.  I’ve been in this awful cycle for so long!  No more.    I didn’t understand before.  And I didn’t have enough confidence in myself to stand up against the guilt.  It feels terrible to be so angry with her, but I didn’t make this happen.  I am NOT responsible for what happened to me as a child.

I got away from her, but I never really dealt with my feelings for her.  I thought things were okay, even wanted to believe they were okay, because she didn’t need me anymore.  She stopped needing me because I wasn’t there and her friend was.  Her friend is gone, now it’s me again.  Gosh.  That's really all I am to her?

I have a few home spun techniques, but I'd be interested to know what you'll do or intend to do with this next round that you know is coming?

I have a few ideas, mostly about protecting myself and who I want to be.  1) No more yelling, for one thing.  Yelling at her rips me to shreds.  If she can’t hear me, there’s nothing I can do.  2) Be kind whenever and however I can, because I can’t bear to lash out in her in frustration.  That makes me feel horrible, too.  3) Find a way to get off the phone if my heart begins to race or I start feeling panicky.  But beyond that?  I’m not sure, but I hope that’ll become clear as these ideas tonight sink in a little more.

You guys, thank you.  From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

(((((((((( R CG Portia ))))))))))

Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

Eureka!  Congratulations!  Well done!  Hugs!
R  

[Anonymous]

Hi Wildflower, I'm so happy that your working through this and I wanted to share this with you. I was watching an interview a while ago with Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein leader. He made a comment that I wrote dowm because it peirced me. He said "To make war we have to de-humanise. We can't do this when making peace."

These words haunted me till I found a context for them in my life.

All those years I laboured trying to make peace with my mother. I constantly humanised her. Excused her when she killed my dog because I knew she'd suffered terrible abuse as a child too. And she had. I let her of the hook when knocked me out because I acknowledged her pain about her boyfriend at the time.

When I stopped doing that nearly 10 years ago, it's like I changed and I made war on her in a sense. I de-humanised her. In the end I refused to consider her pain anymore because I had constantly allowed these thoughts of her own suffering to overrule my own needs. I had been enabling her to keep hurting me by acknowledging her history. I got what Gerry was saying. To go to war, sometimes we have to de-humanise the enemy, or we can't fight for our own life or rights effectively. Because we keep thinking about them. Meanwhile, who are they thinking about?

Just a thought I had and wanted to share with you.

CG