On being consistent

[rosencrantz]

Guest said : I am definitely more open as guest when I don't have to construct a consistent identity- so much has happened in the last year I know I am often inconsistent and going back and forth. I'm still adapting.
I'm just interested what I have to learn ( or contribute ) at this stage.

This post stopped me in my tracks - I was both puzzled and enlightened.  

I don't expect to be consistent.  It's not the human condition to be consistent.  Although I suppose it's through highlighting our inconsistencies that we grow - ?  

I think Ns feel particularly threatened if an inconsistency is pointed out. (Busy changing the goalposts)  

Pointing out inconsistencies in Ns maybe helps us survive! (Resolves  confusion)

I'm different in different circumstances and with different people.  Is that being inconsistent?

Having established a persona as 'Rosencrantz', it was difficult on my ego to see R attacked and yet I had a really important experience which I would never have had the ego-strength to 'own' as 'myself'.  I could do it now, but not then.  It was the personal anonymity which allowed me to work through what had happened; but it was the investment in a name which made it an effective encounter.

So our online identity can feel as 'real' and 'at risk' as our own personal one.  And so having a name is an important part of the healing process - it's investing oneself in something without the actual risk.  We are not our persona.

it was sometimes difficult or risky to reveal all the different sides to 'me' but as time has gone on all those 'bits' have become integrated here.  No-one challenges me for not taking a consistent role - sometimes helper, sometimes in need of help, sometimes shouting 'look at me', sometimes hiding away, sometimes vulnerable, sometimes 'tough', sometimes 'knowing', sometimes 'searching', sometimes 'winning' the ACON battle, sometimes licking my wounds.  It's even nice to be ignored sometimes and to know that I am really and truly not that important!

Guest, I suppose that I really just wanted to say that you don't have to construct an identity, consistent or otherwise, not in life or anywhere else.  You 'have' an identity.  It's just 'which bits' of it you decide to reveal which make up 'who you are' in the eyes of people who see you.

You can be ALL the things you are and ultimately feel much safer.  People like well-rounded human beings with a few warts.  

Just Sunday morning thoughts - directed at the concepts of 'consistency' and 'identity' rather than 'guest'.
R

[Anonymous]

I really just wanted to say that you don't have to construct an identity, consistent or otherwise, not in life or anywhere else

I think everyone constructs their identity to some extent; we behave subtly differently with different people, responding to their cues and feedback.

Personally I think that is what gives us our 'safety' in social situations, being attuned to what other people are expecting from us and backing off if its not in sync. with our own ideas.

For people who have been involved with narcissists I think its extra important, because we have gotten into the habit of self-sacrifice, of regularly giving away our 'power' and of ignoring what we want for ourselves.

[Anastasia]

Now I "get it":  people post as "guest" as they expect rejection, criticism and harshness from this board.  Talk about having no faith and trust in others.  Who--but we who know the narcissists first hand--is more in touch with the hurt and cruelty of them than us?  I think most of us really have a sincere interest in helping and caring about our fellow sufferers.

What if you--as "guest" writer on this board--chose a name and wrote of your situation and received alot of feedback loaded with ideas and comfort and positive reinforcement?  Is that--or is that not--what you ideally want here?

Sometimes you just have to take a chance in life, and, my opinion only, you need to risk some in order to grow.

Then again, I realize that some would rather stay in their "comfort zone" of anonymity than take any chances.  And stuck you shall stay in, most likely.

Those of you who will use a "name" here are more ready, in my opinion, to begin to really work on the issues.  Just a guess, but I still think a good guess.

[rosencrantz]

Oh Guest (Guest who replied to my post)

I think everyone constructs their identity to some extent; we behave subtly differently with different people, responding to their cues and feedback.

Yes...and no!

Such pain, such fear is expressed in your post.  (((Guest))) (I think that's how you write a hug).  What you describe is where the ACON starts from, that's what an ACON becomes in response to an N.  

You may need a persona for work; you may decide you need one down the tennis club.  But for the rest, you find the friends and the circles of acquaintances that fit with YOU.  A life backing off is not the finishing point.

Yes, there is risk of rejection.  I think ACONs (forgive the shorthand - it doesn't express subtleties) have terrible fear of rejection because rejection seems to mean that our whole edifice will come tumbling down and prove that our Nparents were right about us.  (They weren't!)

So, yes, you need to protect yourself until you are strong enough little by little to share who you are without fear of getting squished.  But sometimes we ACONs are our worst enemies.  We test in the wrong ways and just prove to ourselves that we were right all along!!!  Wildflower's mum (hope you don't mind me bringing her into this thread Wildflower) is a good example and in my darkest hours, thankfully years ago, I've seen my own fear create hopeless situations, too.
R

[Anonymous]

A life backing off is not the finishing point.

that's EXACTLY right.
But I'm not at the finishing point, I am mid-way changing a lifelong pattern of behaviour.


What if you--as "guest" writer on this board--chose a name and wrote of your situation and received alot of feedback loaded with ideas and comfort and positive reinforcement? Is that--or is that not--what you ideally want here?

What difference would a name make to positive feedback? Some of the names are revealing I suppose, but this is a support group, an artificial environment to aid recovery, its not my real life.

I come here to a place where there is a gap in my life, because others who have not experienced narcissism and pd don't get it, and people here do.

I set my own boundaries in life now- and you cross them by telling me who you think I am and that I am stuck or not working on issues, things you can't possibly know.

It is for me to make my own choices, and to find my own way in recovery and growth- and definitely for me to define me for myself!

[Anastasia]

Personally, I think you came here to argue.

[Anonymous]

well you are wrong!

I learn a lot here, and also share things.

[Enough Already]

Rosencrantz,

WHHHHHYY did you have to so deliberately bring up the whole issue again!?   It had already been put to rest.  

That is not a rhetorical question.   Can you please answer that directly, without speaking peripherally and saying something like "it is my right to free speech & to say what I want".   That is not what I'm addressing.   I want to know WHY you saw it fit to rehash the whole guest topic once again in debate(meaning "questioning") style???

You have started discord again.  If that is what you wanted (I'm beginning to wonder).  You've succeeded.   Happy?

Unless the moderator decides(or the tech. capacity is even available with this board)  to change options, people here will always be able to post as "guest", so get used to it and MOVE ON for crying out loud!!!!

Stop analyzing, judging and trying to "heal" people who wish to post as guest!   It's not a pathology!!!!!!!!  (please re-read that phrase 10 times)

Maybe one day when something that would cause "Rosencrantz" to be too harshly judged to bear at that already trying time in your life where you feel at rock bottom(hopefully never happens to you), you might need advice and post as "guest" too...

It's getting to be  drag coming here & seeing the same out junk and arguments rehashed(and please don't say the obvious unintelligent cliche- "if you don't like it go somewhere else.)   Before your email it looked like things were finally getting back to more relevant issues, and not "handles" used.

If the moderator is not going to change the "guest" feature, I wish they would ban the topic because it is a completely moot point then, and its *only* purpose is to cause discord.

[Enough Already]

Rosencrantz Wrote:

Just Sunday morning thoughts - directed at the concepts of 'consistency' and 'identity' rather than 'guest'.
------------
Just a side note to say, yes, I did read that part of your post, R.  Thing is, you can tip toe around issues and address them in a roundabout way, but it doesn't change the underlying message.  

Dress it up, but the issue is still related to guest posters, and as you can see, other repliers naturally made the "guest" connection.

[surf14]

I think for people to get on the forum, be assertive,  and express themselves, including disagreeing , is  therapeutic for people.  Its the nature of group dynamics as well.  If its annoying, probably best to go on to the next post and ignore the discourse.

[Enough Already]

think for people to get on the forum, be assertive, and express themselves, including disagreeing , is therapeutic for people. Its the nature of group dynamics as well. If its annoying, probably best to go on to the next post and ignore the discourse

--------------------------

I agree Surf14,

Disagreement and discussion serve well.  It just gets a bit grating when the *same* issues are carried on for *weeks*.  This seems to go beyond rational, healthy discussion, and productive feeling expression at that point, and turns into mud slinging communication at the lowest levels of insight and learning, with no real purpose.  

But you are right....   This is the nature of boards/group dynamics.   I think I will take your advice and move on to the next post when these things occur.   After all, there are plenty of other relevant posts.  

I suppose I have to take some responsibility in keeping myself mired in it
on a personal level as well.    Those who want to stew in whatever, can, and as you wisely say, I am free to move on to more relevant topics.

From here on in,  I think I will do just that....

[rosencrantz]

Enoug Already, the discussion didn't go exactly the way I intended but people are free to say what they will.  I made it clear what my intentions were - and I am clear in myself what I truly intended : to share my belief that you don't have to create a consistent persona either in life or on this board and that's it's OK not to be consistent.  YOU choose to dispute my stated intention.  You are wrong.  Do I hear the words 'ooops, sorry' (You know, the way normal people do...I'm still waiting...)

See if you can keep yourself under enough control to find a constructive way of handling your feeling of upset when you see something you don't like - just for once talk about your own feelings instead of looking for the nearest scapegoat to dump it all on.

Believe it or not, I am not responsible for the spats that other people decide to have here.  Gosh, what power you see in me!!  LOL - that's really something to try to dump the blame on me for other people's disputes!!!  In fact, I  posted a second time to try to reorientate the thread and get it back on track but clearly did not succeed.  Oh, you missed that one did you - or it inconveniently got in the way so you ignored it.  Heavens above - let's not let the truth get in the way of a good scapegoating opportunity.

Give it a rest, Enough already - Yes, ENOUGH ALREADY, Enough Already!!! <G>

Actually, I am sick of your posts.  They rile, they create upset.  And why?  Because you get at people - every post you make, you GET at people.  You accuse, you judge, you shame.

What do you get out of that???  You demanded (!) an answer from me.  What about an answer from you.

It's time for you to look inside yourself and start sharing YOUR feelings rather than spending your time tripping others up, twisting their intentions (mind games!) and putting people down..

If you are not interested in thinking about the concepts raised in this post, contributing constructively and helping it along, then keep out.  

And if you think you won, you also lost!

To anyone else reading this - I don't need rescuing.  I'm mad and I'm happy to stay that way.  

R

Can you please answer that directly, without speaking peripherally and saying something like "it is my right to free speech & to say what I want".  That's your style not mine.  And I have no obligation to answer your question but I will.  I did not rehash the guest topic.  I clearly stated that was not the intention of the thread.  You believe what you like.  You will anyway!!!

[Enough Already]

And if you think you won, you also lost!

### That hadn't even crossed my mind.  Aside from the other obvious markers, very telling of your combatitive mentality.    

I'm mad and I'm happy to stay that way.  

### Nuff said.  Knock yourself out in your toxic bliss...

<sigh>... some people "get it" and some just never, ever do...  

I won't be replying or even reading this, or any negative threads anymore...    

See ya  

[rosencrantz]

I actually did laugh at this.    

It's good to know that I'm still getting better - and my boundaries stronger - every day!!!

   

And great to know that Enough Already won't be joining in to kick people around any more.  I hope that's a promise!!!

Toodlepip
R

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not, I am not responsible for the spats that other people decide to have here.  .

Actually, I am sick of your posts.  They rile, they create upset.  And why?  


And if you think you won, you also lost!


 I'm mad and I'm happy to stay that way.  

R

From Big Jake

Sorry , but you are rsponsible for this spat Rosie, but being in denial is okay, people still love you, even though you do always need to have the last say.

Guest didn't lose, cause there ain't nothin' to lose here. What we all lost, we lost a long time ago when we were kids.

And yes Rosie, you are mad love, truly totally mad.

Love Big Jake