Author Topic: narcisism?  (Read 10226 times)

cj

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Re: hi.
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2004, 11:31:18 AM »
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Portia

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narcisism?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2004, 12:18:19 PM »
Thanks for telling me you’re a bloke! I got it with ‘sissy’ (had already written my post offline) but I’d rather hear it from you, so thanks. Are you late 20s early 30s now? If you like dogs and dogs like you, well that says it all in my opinion: you are a good person! Have you ever had a dog or any other pet at home?

Guilt is one of the biggies. Your mother made you feel guilty – have you noticed?  She said to you: “'Why do you hate me so much????” – that’s designed to make you feel guilty: that phrase has no other purpose than to make you feel bad. If she said that to you when you were little, well, it has lasting consequences. You feel like a bad person and you don’t even know why! (Maybe it’s because your mother felt like she was a bad person and wanted to give that feeling to you instead?)  I don’t think you’re a bad person and from what you’ve said so far, you have nothing to be guilty about (except maybe Texas Chainsaw!!!) – but I know saying that doesn’t make you feel any better. I gotta ask, why Texas Chainsaw? I haven’t even seen it but isn’t it really very bloody and gruesome? It seems like the opposite end of Finding Nemo! Maybe I’m wrong. What’s good about Chainsaw, seriously?

What would you say to working with animals? (Are you doing any kind of work right now? I’m not…) You don’t have to be in a band to love music – just carry on loving it. What kind of music/groups do you like? And as for girls wanting blokes with money – yeah, some do, it’s a shame – but not all! Some girls look for different things…like a sense of humour which you clearly have!

You said: “I feel i dont have enough passion for anything to want to do it fully” – that’s very true of many people, we just don’t admit it very often. It’s funny but passion for something usually builds up the more you do it. It’s by doing the tiny things (like going for a walk around the block) that you find over a short time you want to do more (like go walking in the countryside). Passion for something grows, it isn’t just there to start with. That’s what I’ve found. Have you ever grown a plant in a pot?

I must leave off the board now and ‘get on’ (with boring domestic stuff) but if you can sometime, tell me more. Bye for now, (in UK GMT time). Stay cool! P

seeker

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narcisism?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2004, 12:47:50 PM »
Hi c.j. and hiya Portia!  :)

Hey cj, I think Portia's on to something about finding what you like and taking baby steps in building up a passion for it.  I'm a little different in that I get passionate about something, then get distracted by another "passion" etc.  But that's my process.  

But I just wanted to add: start where you are.  Don't talk yourself down about what you have or haven't gotten done.  Just do it.  That's living.  Let go of results and just enjoy what you are doing at that moment.  Find your own process and ignore the "shoulds"  :wink: .

You might enjoy Julia Cameron's books like the Artists Way or Vein of Gold.  They are geared toward recovery and being creative.  Anyone, not just artists, can benefit.  JC has a very gentle tone that is very encouraging and validating. These books were my best "friends" while I was working through some panic attacks...

Also, can you combine your love of music into another type of activity, like cataloging music, being a d.j., music historian, archivist, recording technician, etc. etc?  Ew, I'm getting a little pushy.  Didn't mean to overwhelm.  What I want to say is that maybe there are things to do in your areas of interest that have only a little involvement with other people or a sort of "comfort zone" built into the nature of the job.  One baby step would be to just brainstorm away on all the things you enjoy and what any type of related job would be.  Just food for thought.

I also know what you mean about the biased view of parents.  It's confusing because I love my parents and feel ambivalent.  It's hard to know I didn't get everything thing I needed emotionally and to recognize and accept their imperfections that they deny.  But I'm working on it.

Best to you, cj.  Seeker

cj

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hi
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2004, 01:06:27 PM »
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cj

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hi again
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2004, 01:11:26 PM »
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cj

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Re: hi again
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2004, 01:24:28 PM »
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cj

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narcisism?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2004, 02:25:04 PM »
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cj

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narcisism?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2004, 08:05:19 AM »
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rosencrantz

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narcisism?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2004, 09:18:45 AM »
You're OK, c.j.!  I thought about posting those words in response to your earlier 'little posts' but I didn't have anything else to say and it seemed a bit lame all by itself - so I thought I'd leave it til you'd posted some more.  Sometimes a poster just needs to witter on a bit - and that's Ok, too.

Loved this :
Quote
My response (well, um, sorry mum, I'm fucking busy losing my mind, sorry if I'm not to enthusiastic)
. Made me laugh out loud!  If you've got a sense of humour you're well on your way back to recovery!!  

What's the worst that could happen if someone doesn't like you??  Their loss, don't you think??

Actually a sense of humour is very 'attractive' - so I'm sure people won't dislike you if you get on out there a bit.  But it's often difficult to be ourselves when we're waiting for the indifference barrier to go up.

Quote
to which she responded (disappointed) 'I just thought you would you would be happy for me, thats all!'.


I'm coming to the conclusion that these difficult parents are just children who never grew up - they had children so they could get parented.  Which of course messes up (had to choose my words carefully there!!!) the next generation.  I don't suppose for a minute that they did that consciously.  I mean, you get married, you have kids, right??!  But once the babies arrive, their own memories of lack of parenting get triggered and things start to go haywire.

The thing to be aware of on this board is that we've all got pain and bother and strife in our lives so if you don't get a reply it's not 'you'.  Plus, we don't have answers - we can only share our own experience if we happen to have one that's similar.  People sometimes miss a post - or they are off doing things in their own lives and don't turn up for a while.  Don't take it personally and don't expect too much and you'll probably get loads back in return - in time!!!  ;-)

I've just read your earlier post - about not being able to get going because of all the ifs and buts going on in your head.  You know the only way to fix that is to do one thing and then another.  It doesn't matter if it's the wrong decision - you've wasted enough life already and if you stay put you're only going to waste some more.  

You mention Uni.  Go to Uni - best way forward.  You can squander your time if you want and use it as a social opportunity - most students in the UK seem to do that!! - and there are usually good counsellors on campus who can help.  

I know when I was at rock bottom many years ago, I took one miniscule  step (signed up for a free evening class) and it led to so much over time....but that's what's scary, isn't it!!!

I didn't get what I really, really, really wanted out of life, but hey! when you've had 'that' kind of start and 'those' kinds of blocks en route, it's a flaming miracle to find you've picked yourself up by the bootstraps and actually got a life again.  Just keep walking forward...step, step, step...

Oh, and no point in guessing what other people are thinking about you!  You're going to ALWAYS be wrong - guaranteed!  :wink:
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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narcisism?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2004, 11:13:53 AM »
Hello C.J. on your thread! Just some quick lines from me now.  I am friendly I guess – we all are here, it’s an unusual message board - and I am who I say I am (female, 42, in the UK). We get the occasional odd poster here but they go away. So it’s pretty safe here, you can talk away (just remember to keep deleting those internet temporary files after you post).

My story is too long! Enough to say problems with my childhood and mother, father, step-father. I had trouble being anyone distinct, was so used to being on my own and not talked to much. Didn’t see much emotion in the house and certainly not good emotion. I thought I was ‘normal’ until last year! Such a weight has lifted from my shoulders to know that it wasn’t okay and I don’t have to keep believing I’m a bad person because I felt it wasn’t right. I just told people here some real things my mother did and said and they told me: no, that’s not caring or loving, your mother is unwell and you need to look after yourself. It made such a huge difference to me!

You said:
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No, I'm not working, I already wrote why. (Sorry, I get annoyed if I feel people don't understand. Probably 'cos I fear being percieved as lazy).


Brilliant! I love it when people are plain straight with me! Thank you. I’m sorry, I didn’t read your posts carefully enough and I made you tell me again – sorry. But I’m really pleased you told me! It shows you do have a sense of self-worth and self-respect and I get to apologise straight away. That’s how I like it. Lazy is a strange word. People say it when they mean “look at you doing ‘nothing’ while I’m doing all this! I’m envious!”. I find I’ve got too much in my head to be really lazy…

Cats are not dogs, you’re right. Cats think that they’re Gods: dogs think that we’re Gods! I guess we need a bit of both for balance?

You said:
Quote
Its like occassions when she would ask me 'Whats wrong????', if I didn't appear happy. I always had to be content, even when I wasn't. Being bored was ok, but anything more personal

I recognise this. I wanted to yell: “Just leave me alone!!!” She was always prying, wanting to get a response so she could tell me how to feel and how to support her! I wasn’t allowed to be myself. I remember listening to a sad song on the radio, curled up on a chair age 12. She came up, moved my long hair aside to peer curiously into my face and said in a sort of rough way “are you crying?”. (Rosencrantz, what’s the label for this type of activity?)

Rosencrantz has given you good advice above. So I’ll just say: you’re not really horrible and I think I like you okay? But you might decide you don’t like me! That’s okay. But if you decide that, you better tell me! I think that’s partly how friendship works…talk to you later/tomorrow/whenever…P

Portia

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narcisism?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2004, 11:17:24 AM »
...

seeker

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narcisism?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2004, 01:21:51 PM »
Hi c.j.  

Quote
I also have a probem with the prospect of being disliked by people, by anyone, like everyone has to like me, because I can't deal with not being liked by people.


Yikes, welcome to the club!  I have a horrible time with this as well.  I am currently working on me liking myself, finding things to appreciate about myself without regard for other people's opinions. This is very difficult!  

The other thing I have only recently grasped is when someone takes an "instant" dislike to me, it really has more to do with where their head is at.  I mean it!  I know, I used to tell myself that to just to make myself feel better.  But now I realize it really is true!  Especially now that I am informed about narcissism.  

Some people (poor things) feel truly endangered by anyone who is different from them (I'm a different looking sort of person).  I must be avoided as though I were going to contaminate their world.  It used to make me feel pretty lousy.  Now I think they're the ones missing out on a whole lot of life!  

And then there are others who feel competitive if you are the same or interested in the same things!  I must be eliminated or "taken down" so they are on top and do not feel threatened.  I used to think I had failed if I didn't "win them over".  I needed their approval.   Now I think the super-competitive ones are positively insane.  And many of them are angry. Now I save my energy.  I don't stop what I am interested in so that they can feel comfortable.  

I also try not to condemn these folks too much, because they, too, have a lot of baggage.  I realize that they probably are carrying around a lifetime of criticism.  I look at these rejections now as "incompatibility" when I am in a good frame of mind.

Hope this helps a little. Do something you like just for today and tell yourself you are worth it.  Because you are.  Just for being here.  :) Best,Seeker

Anonymous

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narcisism?
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2004, 01:26:48 AM »
Hi c.j. :D

I don't think there's too much wrong with you that a different life and healthier parenting wouldn't have fixed. Your childhood situation could only produce problems which at some time were going to need attending to. And you know who's gonna have to do it now, don't you? :lol:  :lol:  

Unfortunately there's no fairy godmother gonna come down and wave her magic wand and change your life. That's what I finally realised about the crap setup and start I had. :cry:   :cry:  :cry:

Your gonna have to take the bull by the horns and turn this *#@* pile of shit you've been handed, called your past, and use the knowledge from it to change your future. I'm so glad you're young. Only 30. It seems old maybe to you, but in some cultures you're still a youth. Or ute as some say. I didn't start fixing my pathetic situation and head till I was about your age, and married with children. You're lucky, you only have to focus on you, with no distractions.

And the texas chainsaw thing,  as a child I saw every animal on our isolated farmlet slaughtered by my father who flipped out. I remember it like yesterday, hiding in the trees under a big black umbrella with my mother, watching him from a distance. He took a machete to every chook, goose, rabbit, duck, dog cat you name it. Went mad and chopped them up then threw the carcases down the well. My mother had to hide us because she thought he'd gone so far that he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a child or animal.

I hope that's not too gory to share here. I can't watch gore at all, I run out of the room. I don't think I have shared that story here, even my spouse or kids don't know that one. But I tell it to you c.j to say to you, my completely insane beginnings have pretty much been put to rest. And if it can happen for me I think it can happen for anyone. At one time in my life I had such serious depression and depersonalisation that I thought that was me. I thought that was who I was. But it wasn't me, it was merely side-effects of a totally putrid childhood that sent my head into outerspace, into orbit.

The hiding silenced child in me has slowly come out, like Boo in "To Kill A Mockingbird," and is getting better. But I had to get determined. I never would have believed once that I could hold down a job, let alone raise a family, run a business and have good friends. But I have and I do. It's called making a life for yourself. You are the potter. You are in control.

You sound okay to me, :D  just have to get rid of, or learn to control those powerless ghosts of the past. Even therapy and the odd bit of medication can help. Building your life happens little by little. Try to do something slightly mildly different each day. Talk to one new person, even at the cash register when you're shopping. Other advice above, enrol in a class for fun, don't bother about the exams if the pressures too much. That's what I did.

Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. Slowly you start building a life. It takes time, but believe me it's worth it, and you absolutely positively definitely deserve it. People will help you. You'll be surprised. Have a good life c.j you deserve it.

Guest

Flo

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narcisism?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2004, 01:53:52 AM »
Hello, c.j. and welcome.  I am pretty new here myself.

Hey, I think you might enjoy reading a book some of us here recommend. It is called **Trapped in the Mirror:  Adult children of narcissists in their struggle for self** and it's by Elan Golomb, Ph.D.

Although I am not clearly able to identify my parents -- one or both of them -- as narcissists, the results of my upbringing ring true to so much of what is described in the book. I can really relate.

And the behavior of my parents, and how the relate/d to us kids and to each other is so similar to MUCH of what is in Dr. Golomb's book.

I find the book extremely useful, and easy reading, too.

I live in the USA, btw. And I've never been a woman interested in men with money.  I don't own a car, and avoid men who do, for one thing.  I never wanted to learn to drive, but my dad forced me to when I was 16.  I finally bought a car (from  him) when I was 26 and owned cars till I was in my 50s.  I sold my car about 7 y ears ago, and have never looked back.  I was so happy to meet my sweetheart -- who doesn't own a car anymore either!!!!!  He is 74, and I am 62 y/o.   My dad died 4 years ago at age 86, and he and Mother (particularly my dad) made me very dependent on their money and support.

c.j., you say, if I read you rightly, that you are living with your parents.   I think the bravest, wisest and also a very difficult thing, would be for you to earn money and get your own apartment.  A person is not an adult till they are self supporting.  Do you think your mother needs you as emotional support of some sort for her?  My dad was very, very emotionally dependent on me.  He "bought" my affection by giving me money.  Could it be that your parents are buying your affection by giving you a place to stay?  This weakens you, and makes you feel small and unworthy.  I think this is likely in your case, anyway.  It sure was in my own case!  My parents did their best to infantilize me, keeping me weak, causing me to believe I was inept at anything practical that would make me able to support myself financially.   Dr. Golomb's book talks A LOT about this -- she says that anything the adult child of a narcissist does to live independently -- to BE a separate person from the parent -- is considered treason!  Does this sound familiar?  You don't need to answer this, but it is something to consider, anyway, I'd guess.

Flo

Flo

Flo

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narcisism?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2004, 02:00:27 AM »
c.j.  There are places to work that are acceptable to bright, creative people like yourself and me.  It is a matter of discovering them.  Hang out here and people can give you ideas.  I know I can -- tell us your interests and I/we can brainstorm about ways for you to find work that is meaningful to you, where you will likely be able to find satisfaction, and not want "out" quick!!!

I had terrible problems with "jobs."  I had no problems finding jobs, when the economy was reasonably okay.  But I could not keep the jobs I got, due to personality conflicts, and boredom or finding ethical conflicts, etc.  I think this is typical of many people who came from some types of homes.  I have an intuitive feeling you may have this problem?  Could I be at least somewhat correct in this feeling of why you are not working now?  Stick around here and maybe we can assist you in pulling your financial situation together and getting out on your own.  Not to be rich, but to be your own man.

Flo