narcisism?

[cj]

Post deleted by c.j.

[cj]

Me again (can't seem to log in as it wont accept my name/ password.)

When I was in college, its strange because i seemed to get on with everybody. People liked me. But I get the feeling they always thought i was a bit of a mystery, and like i was holding something back. I was very self conscious. The personality I let out (act! God I didn't/Don't even know who I was anyway) was an ameable one I guess. Easy to get on with. The very fact i ran into conflict with so few people was no doubt the fact that I was like this. Then again, I guess I am an ok person, but at the same time, god knows what I'd do, or done, if i ran into conflict with someone who didn't like me, esecially as im questioning the way i've always been (having to be liked/accepted). Thats partly my fear to, and i need to know i can handle people, before going out there. Its scarey, especially when i fragment (or threaten to) with every new step. Trying to hold who I am together. Its like building a wall, just for it to keep falling back down. Trying to get a foothold.

[rosencrantz]

Jeez - What parents do to a guy.

It doesn't matter what label to stick on your mother, she ain't good for you - or maybe she's extra careful about you because you are so sensitive - it's difficult to know sometimes where it all starts.  But it becomes a vicious downward spiral.  

But the only person who can get you out of this is you - and you just need to take that step, step, step and just stick something out until you get to the end.  You won't die and you won't implode.  Just keep on going.

I've got a link here that relates to something you said in an earlier post : http://www.saskworld.com/bodymindspirit/edition17/07_article_judith.htm

If someone says you're being 'sensitive' it can be a patronising put down to make you stop being a whining ninny but sometimes we ARE just too sensitive for 'this' world.  So if this relates to you, you need to start learning how to keep the world at arm's length in energy terms rather than in 'real' terms.  It's possible to be hugely sensitive AND be in the world and around people.

You're moving out - that's a great step.  Your mother may be genuinely worried or she may be a vampire (!) but either way, just decide what you want to do and just keep moving - step, step, step.

Best wishes to you, cj
R

[rosencrantz]

Hello again cj - I wrote that post before you wrote your last one!! Just to say that the only way to know if you can handle folk is to get on out there and do it.  Practice on us, by all means   But I think you need much more one on one support from someone kind who can help you take those baby steps.  Sometimes life IS just too overwhelming for us to do it all alone.
R

[cj]

Yes, I know what you mean. I find it hard to *connect* with people online, and believe me ive been chatting on it for four years, even baring in mind the format and its limitations. I've had countless 'friends' coem and go. People don't *Stick* with me if you get what I mean. I either block out the possibility of forming any closeness, or things just don't seem to register properly, and *get through* to me. Perhaps I am running away from myself/feeling, as usual. I think its just years and years of not getting help. I've closed myself of, or my emotions and pressed myself down. It really is like im all locked up. The result is anxiety/fear.
My therapy is all I've got really, but it is helping, slowly. I think I need to have a breakdown, but I'm scared of it.

Anyway, thanks for your post.

Hello again cj - I wrote that post before you wrote your last one!! Just to say that the only way to know if you can handle folk is to get on out there and do it.  Practice on us, by all means   But I think you need much more one on one support from someone kind who can help you take those baby steps.  Sometimes life IS just too overwhelming for us to do it all alone.
R

[cj]

Re: Your post 'Guest'. That stuff about your childhood sounds horrible, puts my 'story' to shame. Glad your past it though, now.
How long did you have depersonalisation for if you don't mind me asking?
Your post is really inspiring. Thanks..

[Anonymous]

Hi c.j.

I think I must have had depersonalisation and disassociation most of my life.  

I would sort of go in and out of it. I'd come out of it like this

It doesn't happen much anymore though.  

I still worry sometimes before I drive the car, and used to get panic attacks before I had to drive anywhere.  

Especially with my kids in the car.  Or I'd trance-out and forget to pick them up on time. I'd be off in Bermuda

"Help, am I on the right side of the road, I can't remeber which side I am supposed to drive on  

I sure hope so,  

Damn I wish I could see a bloody car somewhere  

Oh shit, a car, I gotta get back on the right side of the road  "

But then I talk to myself, and say everthing's going to be alright.  

I've learned to 'self soothe', and so I know I can do whatever I need to do.

And I pace myself. I definitely don't over-commit myself anymore.
I under-commit. I leave the over-committing to the healthier souls out there who never had to deal with crap I've had to.

And I'm no longer determined to be independent. I ask for help. Even if it means some embarrassment.  

I've done a lot of talk therapy, and have been building lots of good things and people into my life. Having kids drove me to keep making everything better and work on me getting healthier, mainly I was motivated for my kids.

But here's one strange thing.  This came out in therapy recently. The fact that as a kid and young adult I had depersonalised and disassociated was I think the very thing that prevented me from ever suiciding.

Whatever bad things happened, it wasn't happening to me, and I moved in a surreal world of what to me were like deja vu experiences. Anyway enough going there.

Writing is excellent therapy. I once was asked to write about one of the best things that ever happened to me and  I haven't stopped writing since.         I think I've found sunshine after the storm.

You gotta love life,

Guest

[cj]

ive typed printed these replies out (I dont have my own p.c atm) so i can read them properly and take them in. I really appreciate them. (I hate reading online!)

Does anyone know if its possible to get posts deleted if not a member. I'm just kinda uncofortable leaving all that stuff up, and feel ive been far too open. Oh well...
Have a good weekend....

[Flo]

Dear c.j.

What a descriptive bunch of posts you have done here.  Wow!! I am HIGHLY, HIGHLY IMPRESSED with your ability to write so clearly.

I can relate, because this is how I myself felt for many years when I was younger.   I don't know when these feelings finally left.  Maybe when I was about 30-35?  Maybe when I got into Al-Anon?  I have a feeling that Al-Anon had a LOT to do with leaving these feelings of disassociation behind, for me.  

Do you look at reflections of yourself on every possible occasion? I used to wonder what I really looked like.  See, my father told me I was so beautiful.  But I had acne from the age of 11 to 21!  And my parents made me wear braces on my teeth, sent me to modelling school when I was 12, made me go to body building school because I was too "skinny," (thin), and Mother made me self-conscious by getting me a bra when I had not developed at all!  In fact, I still don't wear one, since I took it off when I was 21.  She finally made me wear "falsies," a padded bra.  She made me have hair permanents, and I thought my hair was ugly, until when I went off to college, a girl told me my hair was beautiful, and suggested I set it on rollers, instead of bobbie pins. So I did, and yes!  I was beautiful and I loved it!!  Now, my hair is one of the most gorgeous things about me.  However, it took a full 10 years for it to regain its natural wave, after so many years of Mother's home-permanents.  Daddy also told me I was a blonde, but I didn't think I was.  People also did not believe me when I said I have green eyes.  I was born with black hair, but the baby hair changed over to golden blonde hair, then it gradually turned darker,till in high school it was not blonde anymore.  Daddy's hair was light blonde as an infant, too, as we can see from his infant pictures; but as an adult it was medium brown.  He still thought of himself as a blonde.

So I was very confused.

I still find that people will not "allow" me to have green eyes, and I have to tell them that my driver's license shows that I do!  Only other people with green eyes allow it -- and usually it is Jews or Kaffee-au-lait people whose eyes are the same as mine who allow me to have green eyes.  Other Caucasians who have pale green eyes won't let me have green eyes, either. But Jews who have green eyes and Kaffee-au-lait people whose eyes are green recognize my eyes right away!  This still makes me sad, because I love having green eyes, find it very unusual and distinctive, but nobody ever comments on them except an occasional Kaffee-au-lait person or Jew or child!

People insist that I have hazel eyes. But if you look up "hazel" in the dictionary, you'll find that this word means more reddish.  Hazel is actually much more unusual than green!  I tried looking for hazel eyed people, and they ARE out there. Their eyes are lovely!! Sort of rust-colored, and they shine!  But my eyes are NOT hazel!!!

So I used to try to surreptitiously look at myself in mirrors, store window glass, and anything shiny, to see what I "really" looked like.  I don't do that anymore.  I don't even particularly pay attention to in-store video cameras that get me in them.

But so much of what you wrote, c.j. sounds so much like me when I was younger.  Personally, I am not so sure that "just do it" is the whole answer.  It sounds like a major mental health problem, if you ask me.  Which is what I have -- a major mental health problem.  Not that your mh problem is the same as mine.  It does not sound like it is.  

But I have a friend who didn't discover she had mental illness till she was in her 50s.  (I didn't either.)  But the way she accepted this diagnosis was this:  A therapist told her, about the fact that she could not hold a job: "Listen, E...." the therapist said, "Other people hold jobs, raise families, have husbands, and these things are not all that difficult for them.  For you, they are excruciatingly difficult!  When normal life is this difficult, THAT IS CALLED MENTAL ILLNESS."

So she accepted right then and there that she was mentally ill.  And she began therapy on a regular basis.  Over the 4 years that I have known her, she has gradually improved in not only her "functioning," but also her overall demeanor. She is not negative anymore; she is not agitated; she is much more cheerful.  [That's in her case.  I don't know what the effect would be on your disposition, because you are not her!]

But do you see what I mean, c.j.?  It's a slow process, but it works, if you get started, get some professional help, and hang in there.

Flo

Flo

[cj]

Can you tell me what you mean by: looking at my self on every possible occassion, Flo ? (thank you for your post btw!) Why I would do that do you think,  is what I guess I am getting at. Or how does it fit with your experience rather!?
I have been very self absorbed in the past I think, now that you mention it, looking in mirrors and whatnot. But I don't know why. A lot of times in my teens and onwards I think, I used to look in the mirror a lot (And it wasn't vanity, I can asure you!!!! Although sometimes I wonder if I am a little narcistic myself!:(). I certainly am self absorbed as you can tell!
I recal reading a self help/improvment book once in my teens (I wasn't even sure why I was reading it, I just felt something wasn't right, and needed to be fixed, maybe my 'shyness' (sarcastic apostrophies!) (i.e. fear of people). It said to look in the mirror, and say nice things, but when I looked I just felt nothing.
I have to say (not a critisism) having it spelt out like that, like you did, about having a mental health problem, is rather scarey. And depressing. I'm not sure it really has sunk in, even after 11 or so years of being classed as depressed by a doctor, and 2 years of therapy.
As I say, I am getting help, once a week therapy. I even planned to get MORE therapy lol, i.e. a different treatment at the same time, on a different day, to speed things up, but my group therapist thinks it would be a bad idea, to have two things going on at once!
Its all so depressing, it feels like Damage Limitation now.

Seeker, I think it was you (pardon me if I'm mistaken) who spoke of people who feel 'endangered' by people who are 'different'. Its funny, but it made me think (not sure if its the same, albeit on a smaller scale) of 'one upman ship'). Like when you are talking to someone about something, maybe even a common interest, and some piece of knowledge (however small) you might put to the person, which might clash with their idea, or belief, is taken as a threat.
Sometimes people even make crap up, just so they have something to say, or brag about, like they have some 'special knowledge' (lol, its funny really).  I just think 'god, stop being so bloody petty!', 'I'm not in competition with you here'! But understanding *why* makes all the difference.
I used to collect comic books with a friend of a friend in school, (I was friends with his brother). We could have been friends too, but he had this streak of competitivness, which renedered him being quite ruthless in his efforts to outdo me. Again, at the time, I just couldn't understand why he was like this. The ironic thing is, at the time, I thought he was better than me! (Then again most people, in my eyes, probably were!). (My perception was scewered and filtered out other peoples failings/frailties).
I won't go into other things he did to 'get one over on me!).
Ok, this is kids, but I guess some, or many adults, never grow out of it.
I guess the only reason it bugs me really, is a lot of people who don't grow out of it, go on to seek posititions of power, with wider implications, its depressing.

Rosencrantz:
When you speak of an 'indifference' barrier, do you mean learning not to give a damn what people think? That would be a beautiful feeling I imagine, not one I recal having.

Guest:
I'd just like to say again, thanks for your post (not playing favourites here btw:)), I just think it was quite brave of you to post what you did about your early years.
*SPOILER*
My experience of depersonalisation is probably the worst thing about it all.
People say to me, or have done 'You'll be ok, I mean if you werent strong you wouldn't be here, right?'. But thats the irony of it. Its like, a part of you *dies* for real, so I reason that I'm not strong when depersonalised. If I was, I'd be fully 'with it' and not, at times 'between life and death, in a limbo'. Maybe thats depressive thinking, but its hard to imagine being 'out of' that state' when 'in it' and imagine things could ever be the same again.
(I know though, it can be, from past 'in, then out ' experence. Its just a horrible place to be, and it scares me. I worry I'm seeing something I shouldn't sometimes (not literally, and nothing concrete).

Portia: I liked what you said in the part about cats and dogs in your post as well btw!:)

[cj]

Oh nearly forgot..... Guest! I agree with your theory about depersonalisation  being a 'shield' to block/cover up depression, at least in some cases. For me it serves that fuction a lot i think, even though a lot of the time, i might not even be aware of it doing so.

[Anonymous]

c.j.

Guest here, and thanks so much for the affirmation. I never know what to say half the time, but I think it's good therapy getting my head around it, whatever 'it is' and getting it out. I hope you're getting somewhere with all this. Did you get to delete any of the stuff you wanted to? It's hard sharing some sh*@*y experiences best left behind. And then thinking about the ways the old brain and heart have worked out strange ways to cope or function as you say.

But I had to laugh at your unintentional misspelling of 'function'. It's priceless and I've added it to my vocab now. I now have a new word for my dysfunctional functioning, I'm now gonna call it 'fuctioning'. It's when my totally f*#%ed up functioning system is in control. So I'm either 'functioning', which are my healthy ways of living, or 'fuctioning' which are my unhealthy ways of living. Thanks c.j. and I hope you're doing okay.

Guest

[cj]

Hi Guest. Glad to be of service!:) I haven't had a chance to look into getting them deleted. Would I just email one of the moderators and ask nicely?
It is heavy indeed. Working through all of this. I feel like I've been in a bubble and its like.... ....so much to wade through.
But I did one good thing today. I put a small amount of money into my bank account, towards getting a place of my own. Its a small step (and a small amount of money lol), but its good intentions and will build up week by week.

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi, cj--

E-mail me at ragrossman@voicelessness.com, and let me know which posts you would like deleted.

Best,

Richard

[Portia]

Yay cj!   Congrads on making that step with your bank account: money may not buy happiness but it sure is one good way to independence.    I’m so happy for you!
I looked up a Churchill quotation for you:

“Odd things animals.
All dogs look up to you. All cats look down to you. Only a pig looks at you as an equal.”

(I love all animals, and find patting pigs very comforting. Call me weird, but it’s my thing. ) P