I could use a few buddies

[Hopalong]

Welcome, Paul.

Out of respect, I'll be pretty direct.
It is clear you are sensitive, hurt, and yet some other inner message is driving you to clamp on to this woman as though your sheer determination to sacrifice yourself will inspire her to heal herself.

It won't.

You can't "see that she gets the help she needs." You can worry and strain and eat yourself alive with pain and anxiety and track her every breath and lie in the dark feeling the emotional cold and suffer and suffer and suffer and suffer. Then you can wake up and try again. Try to persuade, cajole, understand, empathize, hold, lovelovelovelovelovelove her into loving you back.

You can throw away your precious chance at a dignified, meaningful, self-respecting life.

You can deteriorate emotionally to the point that you cannot think, only feel and strategize and grasp hopelessly for control.

There's another thing you can do that is guaranteed to break your heart and leave a mark on your life that you never can erase.

You can marry her against your own well-being. Then, later, you can get divorced.

It is a terrible trial to the spirit...and think of this, please:

Every person on this board married in the belief that it would eventually be a healthy, loving partnership...or in some way, be a fulfillment of the dream of marriage.

Marriage is not a dream and you cannot dream it into being.

Even if you marry her, you may not wind up with a marriage.

Don't do what I did...it is a kind of regret you only understand in the way that a person who smokes for many years understands consequences, after the diagnosis.

Don't kill your dream of marriage. You will, I believe, if you marry this woman...

I'm sorry. Your story just makes me want to be very very direct.

I'll understand if you're not able to hear me (I couldn't hear anyone either). But I'd love to spare you that pain. As would we all.

Very glad you're here, Paul. Keep posting. (Don't let me or anybody scare you away! Those who have the good sense to say they don't know your situation are more tactful and I should probably do that too. But I DO know your situation, even with your--and her--uniqueness.)

And read up on CoDependency, please. Start with Melody Beattie's books...

Best to you,

Hopalong

[THATONEGUY00]

In response to the recent post: I understand cc dependancy, this is an issue she has raised with me, she doesn't want me to be so codependant on her, she wants me to be more independant. She has taken an interest in letting me know how unsatisfying it is to be with someone who puts so much importance and emphasis on our relationship as if life would not go on without her. I understand that, and I have recently spen a week by myself, she had to go stay with her dad and help him out for a week out of town. So I spent that week by myself, and took some time to think and reflect and I have been able to pin point things in my past as to why I am so relian. I feel alot more independant now, but my worry now is that I can be independant and she is definately independant but why is it that she is never affectionate or doesn't ever have a moment that she just wants to focus on me. I always give her back massages and full bosy tickle rub downs when we go to bed but last night, she was complaining about her back and I said would you like a massage? and she I guess. So I just laid there because I don't want to just automatically do it anymore, she never comes in and automatically gives me a kiss or just smiles at me, or talks about our future, it is something that I usually initiate myself first. I will not agree to marry her until I feel better about us.  I also don't want to spend alot time trying to help her and fix things, if she isn't going to be perceptive of her. As far as friends go, I have met a few people at work that I could hang out with but they all have families and are always busy with that, or have their own thing going and are not interested in adding to that.

[THATONEGUY00]

Am I happy with my job? no, I mean I like my job but my time is much more valuable.My supervisor is very distant and when I speak with her at work its usually about work, and she seems to snuff the fact that I might have an idea to improve things around there. There are couples that we have had dinner with together before, her friends and their significant others. But that doesn't happen often. She wants to be able to have her friends and I have my own friends and very rarely ever mix the two. I enjoy bowling, I plan to join a bowling league as soon as we can afford it, that is where I met alot of friends, other than that place, everyone else I knew was from highschool. I am still going through college, 100% online so I really do not meet many people their. To be honest CB My life at one point was wrapped around her tighter than a chinese finger trap, but I felt like I was smothering her so I backed off a little bit. The problem is, she can't seem to convince herself that even though herself, her family, her friends and her career are among her top priorities, there are ways to involve me as a priority without compromising her values. And she feels that she has created so much for herself that it would begin to deminish everything she has done. The one difference between her success and my current road to success is that she has had tons and tons of support along the way. Lots of friends and family right there 100% the whole way always calling to see how she is doing and they still do. I do not talk to my family unless I call them and that is if they answer after 5 or 6 calls. They seem to have a problem picking up the phone and just caling and saying hey hows your day been. I think it is very depressing that I can count on one hand how many times in the last year my family has called just to see how I was doing, but if I don't call for two or thre weeks and then I finally call because I am tired of waiting for them to call, they all get mad, why haven't you called for a while., do you not like your family or something. That is very depressing. I hear my fiance talk about her friends and how she feels sympathy for them because some minor bull that they go through but she doesn't see me.

[Stormchild]

My fiance is a very successful person at a young age, she just graduated with her masters degree and is always thinking about herself. She is very self absorbed but I love her more than words can say.

What is there about her that is lovable?

Is she kind to you? To others you care about?

Does she give you joy on any level other than physical [which for N-women is nothing more than a power trip]?

Is she generous?

Is she ethical?

Just a few thoughts... oops; one more.

If these things do not matter, what is in their place, what is it that matters more?

This is the time to ask these questions. Later on will be too late...

[debkor]

Paul,

So what you are telling us is that you are not a priority?  Yet she wants you to be her husband someday?  Picture your life with her married and what do you see?    Take her as you see her now *what you see if what you get* Where do you see this going?

Love Deb

[THATONEGUY00]

stormchild-
Asside of the fact that she is very very beautiful, she does make me happy, the big thing we have in common is a big sense of humor. I love being with her because she is everything that I would want to spend the rest of my life with. I love and admire so much, her will and her pursuit of her goals. She is a very focused person who can accomplish anything. She sticks by her morals and ethics, and will not bend. She is a very strong person. When ever there is a problem with her family, every single one of hem call her and rely on her because she always knows what to do, or what the best way to handle the situation is. She is very very generous, when it comes to birthday and also when it comes to holidays. I hated christmas shopping this year, we went so much but thats because she will not pay ticket price for anything, it must be a sale. we only spent around 250 dollars on my family of 5 brothers and sisters mom dad step mom step dad two nephews and three sets of grandparents, and they all end up with a big bag full of many gifts. I was so impressed with what she had done and how far she stretched a dollar, which brings me to my next point. We never ever fight about money, because money is nothing but a peice of paper and not a means to revolve your life around. When she does,though vary rarely, come home and put her focus on me and my needs and happiness, there is nothing that exists in this world hat could pull me from such moment.

[THATONEGUY00]

ok CB, you hit it on the dot. I don't know where we will get counseling, I just know we are. I know that I could not go through a with a ceremony feeling like I do, I know it will not solve any problems. As far as kids, she is unable to have kids, I am fine with that. I can be an uncle or cousin but I don't see myself as a parent. If we were to get married right now, I would be unhappy, I know this. But I also know that whether we are married or not, that doesn't mean that its time to just stop trying. I will always keep trying to get things right. I understand I am not going to get that right away, but I also know that even though she may not say it, I am what she wants. I am the one she wants to sleep next to, and the to be there when she is in need. I know I am appreciated, she just doesn't ever express it. Keep the replies coming please, its nice to have people to talk with, it really makes me feel better.

[debkor]

Paul,

You are the one she wants. You are the one she wants to sleep next to.  You are the one when she needs someone. Yet, she never expresses it?  Then how do you know?  How do you really know?  We all thought that too.  And who do you have when you need someone?  Do you have her?  Will she bend ass backwards over for you and really feel your feelings?  Walk in your shoes? 

Deb

[THATONEGUY00]

deb you raise a good point, I been able to talk to her, but I am not seeing results, so therefore when I feel like I need to talk I write in a little journal, I write down my feelings and say what I really want to say, and I leave it at that. Last april I had to get some teeth pulled, and I have never had anyone show more concern, and take care of me as good as she did. If I was truly in need, I think she would be there but I am a guy who refuses to be needy anymore, when you look your fiance in the face with tears streaming down your face and you pour your heart out, and all you get as a response is this is the same argument we always have, and it never gets anywhere, that is all she says. When I put myself out there like that and I am very vulnerable and I don't get what I hoped, then that makes me feel like a person who has whined to much. So therefore I am no longer going to seem whiney or needy. I know that in the next 6 months this will be dealt with, while in front of a professional, and if it still isn't right then I will leave but I think she needs a proffessional. I think that is a great answer. When she sees her wrongs, from a perspective from somebody who is not affiliated with our situation, I feel she will change. If not then I will be forced to explore other options.

[daylily guest]

Hi Paul:

I'm just going to free-associate a little.  Sorry in advance if I'm way off base.

You seem to have found a woman who is very successful, very focused and goal-oriented, and very clear that her family and friends are priorities in her life.  She will go and help her Dad for a week; that says something about her level of commitment to him.  You also think she is beautiful and funny.  That's great.

But you feel that she doesn't often turn her high beams on you.  I find it a little odd that this energetic, focused, helpful person isn't just crazy about planning and talking about your life together.  She seems so self-sufficient; she wants to maintain separate friendships.  Where do you two intersect?  And so much of what you write is about feeling left out of her life.  What do you want out of your life?  You say that she's everything you want in a life partner, yet you admit that you feel lonely and excluded.  You also say that you and your immediate family aren't really close.  I think you may have some practice living with exclusion, so it feels kind of "natural" to you.  But I beg you to think very, very hard before you sign up for a lifetime of it.

All I really know about being married can be summed up in one sentence:  If your partner isn't your home, you've got to move.  If you don't feel absolutely welcome, accepted, known, and loved by this person--and that doesn't mean they have to think your God's gift to your gender--then you'll never be able to relax in your own home.  Do you feel really, really comfortable with her?  Do you feel that she has looked into your soul and liked what she's seen?

My husband and I aren't really "compatible" in many ways.  We have many different interests.  He's all "right brain," I'm all "left brain."  He thinks I'm developmentally disabled because calculus and I never really got along very well.  But despite all our surface differences, he knows me completely.  He understands me.  He's thought about understanding me.  And I can rest in that knowledge, and know that he will always be a safe and welcoming place for me.

My marriage isn't perfect, by any means.  But my husband and I share one pretty important thing with you and your fiancee--we couldn't have children.  And when that's true, the two of you have to become much more to each other.  There are no children to bind you together; it's an entirely voluntary union, and it's always easy to untie the knot.  No one would be damaged if you went your separate ways.  So you question, more than you might otherwise, whether you really want this relationship--or, to put it another way, whether you really want this relationship.

I hope that you'll post about what you want in life.  You seem like an interesting guy.  I think we'd all like to know you better, and I know from experience that continuing to post here can help you know yourself a little better.  That couldn't hurt.

All the best,
daylily

[debkor]

Paul,

I think that is a great idea to go to a professional.  I went as couples and I went individual for myself.  Paul not to burst your bubble or your hopes some people never see their wrongs cause they have none.  If they admit they have wrongs it is followed by, but, you made me, because ECT.  I think you are wise.  You are searching.  You are voicing and you will come to terms with things.  I hope you pick the shorter road then I did.  We here all feel your pain.  We have walked in your shoes. 

Deb

[THATONEGUY00]

daylily, I feel like we can really connect and relate. She knows me better than my own family. I feel safe with her. I am currently going through college because I too am not satified by minimum wage and I too feel I have alot more to offer. I know I will be successful. The only problem with us is that she doesn't ever show affection to me or if she does its because I intitiated it. I don't ever go out with anyone or myself for that matter, she wants time alone, just to be by herself, which I understand more now then I use to but I don't go out because I would feel bad if I went and spent money when we had bills to pay. I have no debt what so ever, my car is paid off and I have zero credit cards. She has total with school loans, which is 95 percent of the chunck, and credit cards just about 40 grand in debt. I want to go and bowl a few games, I would feel weird doing it by myself but hey atleast I would be doing something rather than staying at home 7 nights a week. So I never go anywhere, she doesn't ever have time for herself. that is something she needs alot, and I don't do it but I am willnig.

[THATONEGUY00]

thanks deb that really means alot. I personally feel that i I pray about it, and our love is as strong as I think it is, we will get to the bottom of everything.

[debkor]

Paul,

I have to run out.  It's my daughter's birthday.  I'll check in later.  Keep posting.
Plenty of great people on here. Correction all great people on here.

Take care,
Deb

[THATONEGUY00]

everyone here is great, toknow that I am not alone in the world and there are other people going through the same thing, someone who has been there and lived this. it really helps hearing from many who have been there. thankyou