Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
For Sally
Sally:
One more thing, Rosencrantz...re-read the part where you said it is my experience of what he said that I am experiencing. ie...if he sends back nothing that acknowledges me; then I do not exist, because I do not exist if I cannot be what he wants and needs me to be? think I'm on the right track?
Now that would fit with my mother too. I did not exist in her eyes if I was not what she wanted me to be. I have thrown off everything, my ties to my social upbringing, the way that I look, the way that I act; my work against the status quo as a land-use activist which embarassed her, because she thought it would bring shame on her name?
It's the voicelessness, isn't it? Although I think its more than voicelessness; I think it's voicelessness as well as not being seen for what and who we are. A total denial of my voice and my being by my mother and also by my XN. I'm going to let that simmer for awhile. Thanks Rosencrantz, you may have just helped me up over the mountain! Hugs. Sally
surf14:
Sally, I was going to post exactly what you referenced...when we are infants we get a sense of being thru our mothers who reflect back to us lovingly that we are lovable and cared for. If this is not present that's when things get really convoluted. How can a baby get a sense of themselves when their primary caretaker does not mirror back to them that they are loved and adored and cared for for who they are?
As the child gets older and is taught that they only exist thru their mother, and for her purposes, this lack of self is reinforced. I'm wondering if at the beginning of your relationship with your X N if you had that sense of acheiving completeness of visibility thru him; something you hadn't been able to experience growing up. If so it must be very hard to let that go evne though this was an illusion.
Letting go of trying to get that need met thru him can be likened to an addiction, and that process is very hard at first. You understand addiction Sally, because you've been there; it will get easier as the days progress. Right now you're in the withdrawal phase. Remember that that sense of visibility you did not get from your primary caretaker, and that you thought you were getting from your ex, was an illusion. But you can get those needs met here and from friends who are nurturing and supportive. You're a neat person with alot to offer. You helped me quite a bit today. Hang tight! Surf
Survivor:
Sally,
I loved your posts and can relate to a lot of what you said about your mother. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone in receiving the wrong size (TOO SMALL!) of clothing from her. I also have always received clothes that were WAY too small for me. It was my mother's way of telling me she wanted me to be thinner. My sister was also anorexic in high school, but I didn't follow suit. The ironic thing is, I am not overweight, but I am tall - five inches taller than my mom with a larger frame. I read somewhere that the N Mother wants her daughters to be exactly the same height, weight, etc. as they are :shock: . . . interesting. My bones were not as small as her - I could never win! :roll:
Hang in there and know that you're not alone. Those N Mothers were just brutal to us and I thank God we are aware of their schemes now.
I appreciate your posts!
Survivor
rosencrantz:
Hi Sally - Something was niggling at the back of my mind as I wrote about 'existing only through the eyes of others' but I couldn't bring it to mind. Sorry!
As I read your new post, it seemed to me that there's a difference between not 'existing' for someone else and being invisible - ????? I could cope with being invisible cos then I just have to make myself visible, but if I don't exist, I can't!!!
Hmmm - I wonder if that 'existing in the eyes of others' thing reflects the Jungian (Myers/Briggs) definition of extraversion. Some of us need 'other people' to feel we exist. This isn't pathological or something to grow out of. It just 'is'. No people = a sense of annihilation. Dorothy Rowe is a good straightforward author on this.
Why Does He Do That by Bancroft has just arrived and i've been flicking through it. Highly recommended (in small doses only!!)
R
Sally:
Surf14: Surf your thinking just right on...wow...when you said you wondered if I had a sense of achieving viisibility through him, which I hadn't experienced growing up, is a really new idea...one that absolutely fits, maybe more than any concept about us in the last 20 years.
And, you know what? It feels right too. I think maybe that's exactly what held me to him with so much force. At times that draw to him felt primal in some way. Couldn't ever put my finger on what it was, or why it was so important. The pain, when I would leave always brought me to my knees, and then I would have to deal the fact that I had done it to myself, since I was the one who left. The leaving and the pain that followed it meant I was wrong and guilty, and, of course, that fit in perfectly with his narcissism.
When I would return, or we would meet again, I was always so sorry about what I had done, although in my heart it wasn't any action that I did to him I was apologizing for; it was the action I had done against myself. Pushing him away meant I no longer existed. It really fits.
And, of course, you are right, that the way to get that visibility from someone who won't harm me is through this board and my friends. I'm also reading "Trapped in the Mirror" like it is a textbook. I am now towards the end of the book where she talks about specific problems Adult Children of Narcissists have, and just like my ex was a textbook narcissist, I am a test book child of one. Heaven above, hope I can put this all together to have some peace in my life. Think I am going in the right direction.
So thankful for all of you on this board, for you wisdom and insight, and so appreciative of the way you have held my hand through these last couple of days. Many hugs. Sally
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