Anger and frustration

[autumn]

This is my first post - I just found this site yesterday and am so happy it exists.
Three years after my therapist suggested I read about Ns. I finally did because the man I was seeing was driving me crazy and I had a feeling he just might fit the profile - and how ! And so does my mother. This is where it all falls apart.
I've been trying to forgive my mother for a traumatic childhood - knowing she did her best as a single mother - even though moving me all around the country wasn't very nice, it kept things interesting, and meant that I ended up meeting a lot of people that became support for me, Thank God.

So, I read "Trapped in the Mirror" and now I'm %&*#(*^furious with my mother for turning me into the emotionally constipated person that I am.
 I saw her yesterday for the first time in months - I usually manage to keep our visits down to once a year - and I was completely incapable of being kind or even reasonable. Every word she said made me want to scream - I had to walk away at least 5 times - and this was in the course of about 45 minutes.

This was all made more difficult than it might have been otherwise because my "boyfriend" finally broke up with me on Monday. It's something I've been praying would happen because he's the angriest, meanest N I've ever spent time with, and he wouldn't stand for being broken up with - but I'm much more upset than I expected. Of course it's for the best, we were terrible for each other, but - I just feel like all of my skin has been scraped off.

What am I asking here ? Hmmm...
I just want to feel better. When I try to talk to my friends about this, I'm speachless. I don't know how to explain all of the layers to this pain.
Understanding why I have the difficulties I do communicating (the bane of my existance) seeing my mother up to all of her old tricks, the top of that list being that she blames my lack of trust for her on any and everything other than herself, seeing the boyfriend do the same thing, and then anger at myself for being upset that he's broken up with me ! Worst of all, I live with him and don't want to move out of a really great house....
these all sound like problems that a 33 year old should be past.

I see so much behaviour now that I believe is because of the N mother, but that doesn't mean that I can change immediately, does it ? I sure would like to !

Phew - I kind of do feel better.

Any insight into dealing with the offending parent in a mature and constructive manner ? I guess I should mention that I left home when I was 16, so she thinks this gives her the right to treat me like I'm still 16 since she's hardly seen me since then.

Thanks for being out there !
Autumn

[Anonymous]

Hi Autumn,

you'll find lots of advice here on dealing with an offending parent. What is it that you feel that you want or need from your mother? I got so sick and scared of my mother that what I wanted from her was to stay far away from me, in eternity too if possible. And what I needed from her is that she respect my wishes in this regard and stay far far away.. Full stop.

Yes, don't these mother's who drag us around the country and never let us put down roots, make us dependant little things, and oh so dependant on them. My mother did this, and it turned me into such a social creature, I can relate to anyone, anywhere, anytime. There's not a type of person I haven't met, and I can get along with everybody. What a valuable skill. But I hated the price I had to pay to become such an accomodating character. Where are my roots? Who the @#%* am I? AAHHH, am I digressing, please excuse me?

Anyway autumn, enough about me, let's get back to you girl. If you can work it out with your mum, good. But if it were me, I wouldn't spend too much energy on it. If I were you, I'd focus on me and my life and what I want at the ripe old age of 33. Heck, oh to be 33 again!

Does she deserve any more time, your mother? How much has she given you? Scale of 1 to 100. 1 being lousy parenting and 100 being fantastic. Can you give a rough guesstimate.

The boyfriend, good riddance! You may not think so now, but he's a dime a dozen. You can do better. Forget the house, go live in a squat for a while with some really loving people. (I'm kidding). See which one feels more like home. On our death bed we never talk about houses apparently, it's mainly our children and people we love. I stayed once for a house, or partly that was the reason, our dream home we had built for our children. No worries, it was worth it (not!), I just paid for it with 15 years of my life. Boo-Hoo, Sob-Sob.

Anyway Autumn, you sound so hurt and sincere and I just want to finish by saying, "You have to look after you. No-one else is going to or can make your decisions for you with just your best interests at heart. They'll make their decisions in their best interests, which may or may not include yours." I wish you well and welcome.

Guest

[Sally (sslichterj)]

Hi Autumn, well, you have certainly come to the right place.  I think if you can spend sometime reading all of the posts (or as many as you can) on this site, it will be a big start in answering all of your questions.

Feeling awful because a mean Narcissist has left you after being raised by a Narcissistic Mother means you are right on track.  Children of Narcissists are attracted to Narcissists partners because the behavior of a Narcissist is familiar to us and it is the only kind of love? we learned to understand.  And leaving an N will bring on all sorts of childhood fears and anger that we first developed as children of Narcissists.

For now, I'd just focus on trying to understand a Narcissists behavior and that will help answer some of your questions. In the meantime, breathe deeply, and keep coming back to this site where all of us have suffered similar anger and frustration.  Hugs.  Sally

[rosencrantz]

Any insight into dealing with the offending parent in a mature and constructive manner

Totally impossible - the two halves of that sentence simply can't co-exist when dealing with an N parent.

You're right to forgive for the peripatetic lifestyle and the single parenting bit.  What's you've discovered doesn't change that.  But you'll never 'win', you'll never get your point across or acknowledged so attempting to express your anger is pointless - they don't stand still long enough for you to reach them and they'll 'ping' it back at you anyway so you'll just feel worse.  

I live with him and don't want to move out of a really great house....

Ouch!  A little alert went off for me when I read this.  Be careful - this is something that could trip you up!!  Think about it this way : do you want a great house or your sanity and integrity?????  OR put yourself in your own shoes three years' from now : choosing which path will have brought you most rewards - wiggling back into the relationship for the sake of the house or making the most of the opportunity and just moving on???     And whether you want the breakup or not, you still have to go through the process of handling 'loss' - letting go of the past and moving into an uncertain future.

Big turning point for you - Good luck.
R

[seeker]

Hello Autumn!

Well, I'm older than you and I'm still trying to "emotionally leave home".  And, yes, you're in the right place!

The whole N thing stinks.  Sometimes when the psycho terms don't work, the old school vocabulary still does.  Some parents are just selfish, mean, and verbally abusive.  No one wants to give up on the Nurturing Parent myth, so other folks just don't get it.  I haven't tried this but maybe one day I will ask a friend who is curious, "hey, did you ever go to school with somebody who talked really loud, who wouldnt share, who had to always be first in line, who had to put everyone else down, or accuse others of being wrong all the time?  Well, they're still the same and they have kids too.  You're looking at one."  Worth a try anyway.

As for the boyfriend, ugh.  I once read in a book about clutter    that if you get rid of stuff you don't need, you make room for something better when it comes along.  So I'm glad you are clutter-free in the crummy boyfriend dept.  

As for your mom, I agree with Rosencrantz.  Do not discuss anything meaningful.  You'll just disappoint yourself.  If you have to deal with her at all, just stick to the weather.  Try not to get hooked into her opinions of you (this is really hard and takes practice).  

Good luck on sorting this out, Autumn.  It's going to feel icky to look at and feel your pain until you get a handle on it.  But you will.  Best, Seeker

[DesolateFox]

Seeker-

Ah, you hit the nail on the head.  I always end up taking in my mother's opinion of me, even in the tiniest, most abstract conversation.  She will say things to me that I can't imagine saying the the most evil, hated person on the planet.  I'd have been nicer to Hitler (well... ).  And I have always fallen for it.  Somehow, years after first seeing the title of a book about N parents, I am starting to work on this, and bought a couple of books (one I'm taking back).  It makes me feel guilty and trapped and
"bad" to think of not being there to take my mother's abuse.   Though I don't take my dad's anymore (I cut him off for 5 years, and that helped).  

I hope that by posting here, reading posts, and getting support, I can finally break free from the woman I call "the Evil One" as in, "Hubby, don't answer the phone, it's the phone number of the 'Evil One.'"  Sadly for me, he had to ask who I meant.  'Cause my dad's no "picnic" either.

Thanks all for being here.  I can feel the walls starting to crash down, and I am excited about what my life can become!

[Wildflower]

Hi Autumn and welcome!

Any insight into dealing with the offending parent in a mature and constructive manner?

Your passage about having to walk away from your mom so many times over the course of 45 minutes really struck me and reminded me of a time when just being near either of my parents made me so angry I couldn't see straight.  

I agree with the other posters that we can pretty much count on never having a meaningful, kind, or mature relationship with an N, but I still have hope that there are ways to interact with them that allow me to continue to nurture my positive self-image as opposed to leaving me feeling angry, used, and guilty about things I wish I hadn't said.

Last night I was browsing around in Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life, by Susan Forward when I came across an interesting section that talks about responding versus reacting:

When you allow your emotional ractions to become automatic, you're giving up control, handing your feelings to someone else on a silver platter.  This gives other people enormous power over you.

The opposite of being reactive is being responsive.  When you're being responsive, you are thinking as well as feeling.  You're aware of your feelings but you don't let them drive you to act impulsively.

Responsiveness also allows you to maintain your sense of self-worth, despite anything your parents might say about you.  This is extremely rewarding.  The thoughts and feeligs of others no longer drag you into a pit of self-doubt.  You will see all sorts of new options and choices in your dealings with other people because your perspective and your sense of reason are not being buried by emotions.  Responsiveness can put back into your hands a good deal of your control over life.
...
If you can stay calm and refuse to be stampeded, then you retain the power.
...
Here are some examples of nondefensive responses that you can try using in your daily interactions:
- Oh?
- Oh, I see.
- That's interesting.
- You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
- I'm sorry you don't approve.
- Let me think about that.
- Why don't we talk about this when you're not so upset.
- I'm sorry you're hurt (upset, disappointed)

Anyway, you're definitely in the right place and there are many here who have so much wonderful support and advice to offer.  Glad to have you here!  

Wildflower

[Wildflower]

Hi Jacmac,

It's a pretty good book, isn't it?  I like that it covers lots of different styles of abuse.  Even though most of us are dealing specifically with N's, it seems that their N-ness either bleeds into or causes other forms of abuse - making everything all the more confusing!!

and then to finally realize that their anger has NOTHING to do with you

I'm beginning to see the value in ANYTHING that causes you to have a moment when you realize, right down to your bones, that what the N is doing has nothing to do with you.  It's by knowing this - and I mean knowing this, that we are finally able to free ourselves.

Yesterday morning I had an epiphany of sorts in which I realized that I was like the rent to Mom.  I was just another responsibility that she couldn't face and hoped someone would take off her hands.  She did what she could, when she could, but most of the time, she was much happier to be sleeping or working on her hobbies.  And as I began to think of her current issues in life as one long continuing pattern, it dawned on me that just as she expects people to come to her rescue without really understanding that we work very hard to build our own lives, maybe it never occurred to her how much her boyfriend (my acting dad) took care of me.  I realized that maybe she thought I'd magically take care of myself, feed myself, discipline myself after he left - just as I always had.

When I realized that my mom just didn't understand, and that this pattern of avoidance and neglect shows up across so many aspects of her life, I realized that it wasn't that she didn't love me.  It wasn't that I was a difficult or horrible or monstrous child.  I was just a normal kid with normal needs - but those needs were still too overwhelming for her to deal with - so she just didn't.  But this doesn't make me angry or even sad.  I've already felt so much of that over the years.  I just feel relief.

Wildflower

[surf14]

Hi; the reference to Susan Foreward's book caught my eye as I was reading this post.  I think I described on another post  how I used the technique in her book ten years ago to confront my mother with the childhood abuse she and my dad had dished out .  Her response was as bad as Susan Foreward predicts it may be with denials, and then accusations that I was a cruel and wicked person to have lied like this.  (she even swore on the bible that these things had not happened; that level of denial astounded me!)

 She wouldn't talk to me for several years and is still angry at me for bringing this up although she admitted to it several years ago when SHE brought up the issue again.  My Mom then got furious with me AGAIN for having acknowleged that she had lied about the abuse when I first confronted her and then turned her back on me.. AAiiggg  I can't win.

 I think the book is a good  one  and Ms Foreward does warn you that your parents reaction might be radical.

 Jacmac:  I'm really impressed with your putting into action responding rather than reacting.  You're way out ahead of me there!  Being able to do this almost reminds me of  Thich Nhat Hnah's being mindful; you almost have to step back I'm sure and detach in order to do this, being mindful of how you feel and keeping your breathing, or center, or what ever, even.  Surf

[sgirl]

Hey Autumn,
I only read your original message, and did not read all of the replies, so I apologize if I am repeating anything anyone else said here.

While I did not have a traumatic childhood, the articles written on this website about voicelessness made so much sense to me.  My parents were both really good to me; however, I think there was a sense of "take care of her, love her" - but there was no "play with her, enter her world".  I am not at all bitter about my past; however, things just make sense now.

As for your break-up, I can completely understand.  I was involved with someone for 2 years, and while the first few months were great, the majority of those 2 years were bad.  EVERYone around me could see how bad the relationship was for me.  in fact, I could see it, too - i just refused to believe it.  When it ended, I felt like I had been kicked in the stomach - even though it was definitely for the best.  He was incredibly selfish and childish.  in fact, it never really "officially" ended - he just stopped calling me.  And then i learned, and not from hiim, that he had been seeing someone else.  While I wasn't surprised, it still really hurt to learn this information - especially considering this other woman was around while i was still very much in the picture.  

One thing that I have learned, and am still learning, is that all change takes time.  For me, that is the hardest part. I just want to feel all better immediately.  Two months have passed since the unofficial break-up, and i know I've come a long way.  Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, but not as intensely as before.  
And they say that everything happens for a reason - I think this relationship I was in has taught me a lot about myself - and that I will accept myself, no matter what.  

I know the same will happen for you.  It takes a lot of time, a lot of soul searching, but you'll get there.  And like you said, the support of friends is invaluable.  

You're not alone out there!

[rosencrantz]

Wildflower - I felt like 'wild applause' was appropriate when I read your thread.  That's terrific.  What a breakthrough!!  That feeling of relief when you've worked it out in your head AND your heart.  Terrific!  
R

[Wildflower]

Thank you so much, Rosencrantz You just put a big warm smile on my face  

[Sally]

Wildflower I completely agree with you that things change when you first get down to your bones that whatever the Narcissist is doing, it has nothing to do with you.

Got that about my mother and was able to finally walk away.  Even said to her in my final letter that until I could take care of myself around her so that she couldn't abuse me, I would leave her life forever.  And I did eleven years ago and have felt such freedom having her out of my life.

And now I can look back and see that my final meeting with my exN was another one of those moments.  I knew, knew that what I thought had always been about me, had really been about him.  I could see him for what he was (thanks mostly to what I learned on this site).  I still have a way to go to get completely past the painful/sad part, but I do know I am not turning back.  I know there is nothing I can say or do that will make him love me, or be kind to me, or stop making everything I say or do wrong.  In essence, I give up....he IS PERFECT   (perfect in a world that he lives in alone).  Sally

[Wildflower]

Hi Surf,

When I read your post, I immediately thought of another book (must be book night for me   ) I've found to be really useful and referenced elsewhere on this site: Children of the Self-Absorbed, by Nina Brown. What I like most about this book is that there are exercises you can work through to help you work your way out of the confusion while interacting with an N.

you almost have to step back I'm sure and detach in order to do this, being mindful of how you feel and keeping your breathing, or center, or what ever

I find concrete (factual) examples to be ever so useful, so I thought one of these exercises may be an easier step towards distancing yourself enough to catch your breath and respond instead of reacting.  In this exercise, you are asked to visualize a protective, impenetrable barrier that you can put up or take down in a flash - one that will protect you from any surprise attacks from the N.

The image that works for me is one of massive steel doors clanging shut. Nothing dangerous or threatening can get through those doors when they are shut.  A colleague uses a shade that he can pull down between him and the person.  There are many barriers that could work well, including:

- a brick wall
- electrified wire
- barbed wire
- mirrors that reflect back the projections
- a force field
- a jungle
- a shield
- a suit of armor

or whatever seems appropriate for you.
Once you have settled on your image, you will need to practice it so you can become adept at quickly employing it.

The exercise goes on to help you solidify this image.  I'm still trying to find the image that works best for me, but even my imperfect images have been useful when I'm with my dad.  Even when things are relatively calm, I remember my image and I feel safer and can remain calm - because it reminds me that I can protect myself, and I have the ability to leave if things get scary.

Wildflower

[Wildflower]

perfect in a world that he lives in alone

Nicely put  

Wildflower