Am I a bad mother?

[sandra]

I will appoligise now as i am about to ramble and cry this out.......

I have just  had a row with my N Mother...

I have been seperated from my husband for 10months after he walked out on me and the children because he was in love with another woman....

I have this wonderful friend who has helped me to get back on my feet and is helping me to feel like a human being again...But my mother doesn't like it that we go shopping, go for meals, chat and dare i say it have a laugh..
My friend comes and stays over so that we dont have to drive and can have a drink, and we phone each other daily if not twice a day...
she is the nicest and most wonderful friend you could ask for and i am sure I would be in a very different place if it hadn't been for her help and love for the past 10 months.

On Friday my 13 year old daughter went to stay with her friend for a sleep over and spent  Saturday shopping and going to the cinama....
My 16 year old son was supposed to be going out for a meal with the football team but this was changed at the last minute...my friend J asked if i want to go to her house and stay over as i was going to be on my own.....
I said that would be great but then my son changed his plans so i asked him what he wanted me to do ...he told me to go to J's and have a good evening....I arranged for his Dad to pick him up and take him to work the next morning and he had his mate round and they cooked pizza and enjoyed their evening.
i came home Saturday afternoon picked up my daughter and got a take-away for all of us.

I phoned my Nmother Sunday morning and before i could say hello she was shouting down the phone at me saying that i was a bad mother for leaving the children on their own while i was staying at J's... They had not been fed and could not get hold of me as my mobile was broken..(they had J's mobile and home number and i text and spoke to them both)
She then accused me and J of being lesbians because we are both lonely and dared shared the same bed and she could not see how we could sleep in the same bed and nothing happen.
J and i are really good friends but there is nothing like that between us but even i there were would that make me a bad mother and am i a bad mother for having a good friend that i can talk to.

She said that i always say i have no money to go shopping with her....but i can go with J...thats not true i have no money because my husband has just left me and if i go shopping it is tempting and whats the point in window shopping all the time..

she says that i never spend time with her because i am spending my time with J. I always pop round at the weekend and sometimes during the week if i am not running the kids to different activities.

How can i get it through her head that nothing is going on and that i am going to stay friends with J no matter what she says.....and that i am not a bad mother for wanting to have a little fun....I always put the children first before anyone and anything.......I love them so much and i would never do anything to hurt or upset them....i did talk to my son about me being away for the night and he said i am 16 not 6.

please tell me Am I a bad mother??

tired, upset and hurting

Sandra x

[Bones]

You are NOT a bad mother!!!!

If anyone is being a bad mother, it is N-MOTHER and she is projecting as well as attempting to control you and make you an extension of her, if not attempting to force you to be her N-supply.  She needs to go sit on a tack and rotate on it!

Bones

[Hopalong]

Good god, no. You are not a bad mother.
And if you discover with J that you have a personal side you hadn't expressed before, that is nobody else's business. Ever. (But if you find it's real for you, be brave and UNASHAMED.)

Your mother is jealous.

Someone else is receiving your attention and has earned your trust and confidence.

Your mother is forfeiting her right to be a primary person to confide in by treating you this way.

My advice is, the MOMENT your mother says anything abusive, or raises her voice to you,
you say,

"I have reaized in order to take care of myself and my children, I cannot allow anyone to speak to me in this way. I will talk to you later when you are calmer. Goodbye." CLICK. Same goes for when you visit her. "I will visit again later, goodbye." DOOR CLOSES QUIETLY.

This is the time in your life to wake up, stand up, and be your own strength.
You have it. You can dig in and find it.

Somewhere inside yourself, you realize that you do not deserve to be anyone's doormat.

Bless you for your courage and bless J for being your stalwart friend. (Anything else she is or becomes is noone else's business.)

I know plenty of happy, calm, sensible lesbians with good lives and loving partnerships. It's not a curseword except in the minds of the fearful and bigoted. You may not know right now what direction you are going...and THAT'S OKAY.

Support to you,
Hops

[isittoolate]

hi Sandra,

I am with Hops on this. Your mother is jealous and trying to shame you into dropping your friend. I'm happy for you that you have J.

Take Care
Izzt

[Margo]

I will appoligise now as i am about to ramble and cry this out.......

I have just  had a row with my N Mother...

I have been seperated from my husband for 10months after he walked out on me and the children because he was in love with another woman....

I have this wonderful friend who has helped me to get back on my feet and is helping me to feel like a human being again...But my mother doesn't like it that we go shopping, go for meals, chat and dare i say it have a laugh..
My friend comes and stays over so that we dont have to drive and can have a drink, and we phone each other daily if not twice a day...
she is the nicest and most wonderful friend you could ask for and i am sure I would be in a very different place if it hadn't been for her help and love for the past 10 months.

On Friday my 13 year old daughter went to stay with her friend for a sleep over and spent  Saturday shopping and going to the cinama....
My 16 year old son was supposed to be going out for a meal with the football team but this was changed at the last minute...my friend J asked if i want to go to her house and stay over as i was going to be on my own.....
I said that would be great but then my son changed his plans so i asked him what he wanted me to do ...he told me to go to J's and have a good evening....I arranged for his Dad to pick him up and take him to work the next morning and he had his mate round and they cooked pizza and enjoyed their evening.
i came home Saturday afternoon picked up my daughter and got a take-away for all of us.

I phoned my Nmother Sunday morning and before i could say hello she was shouting down the phone at me saying that i was a bad mother for leaving the children on their own while i was staying at J's... They had not been fed and could not get hold of me as my mobile was broken..(they had J's mobile and home number and i text and spoke to them both)
She then accused me and J of being lesbians because we are both lonely and dared shared the same bed and she could not see how we could sleep in the same bed and nothing happen.
J and i are really good friends but there is nothing like that between us but even i there were would that make me a bad mother and am i a bad mother for having a good friend that i can talk to.

She said that i always say i have no money to go shopping with her....but i can go with J...thats not true i have no money because my husband has just left me and if i go shopping it is tempting and whats the point in window shopping all the time..

she says that i never spend time with her because i am spending my time with J. I always pop round at the weekend and sometimes during the week if i am not running the kids to different activities.

How can i get it through her head that nothing is going on and that i am going to stay friends with J no matter what she says.....and that i am not a bad mother for wanting to have a little fun....I always put the children first before anyone and anything.......I love them so much and i would never do anything to hurt or upset them....i did talk to my son about me being away for the night and he said i am 16 not 6.

please tell me Am I a bad mother??

tired, upset and hurting

Sandra x

Well... you're not a bad mother but..... you may need to get better at putting on your imaginary helmet when you speak to your mother. You know the one?  That keeps bad words from getting through and hurting you?

 I remember my father asking me if I was a lesbian once, during an argument he was losing.  It completely threw me off gaurd and I realize now that that's what he was trying to do.  He wanted me to feel shame.  He wanted to innapropriately step over my boundaries.  I think your mother is selfish and has no problem stepping on your boudaries.  I also think she's jealous and wants you culled out from your strengths.  For some reason, maybe bc she's an N, she wants you dependant on her and under her control. 

Whatever reason..... you need to stop letting her make you feel so badly.  It sounds like you choose to be with J bc she builds you up.  It sounds like you avoid your mother because she makes you feel guilty.  OK.  That's information you probably alreaydy know.... now what can you do with it to feel better? 

I myself like to pretend I'm looking down on troubling situations from a mile or so up.  It helps me keep things in perspective and give myself the same advice I'd give other people.  When our faces are pressed against the glass..... from being too close to emotional situations..... we don't give very good advice to ourselves.  Margo

[sandra]

Thank you guys for all your support.

It has really helped having you all there.....I don't think my mother is ever going to change so i might as well get used to the idea, that she is always going to be jealous and when she can't get her own way she is going to kick off.

I did speak to my Father yesterday who has had a horrible weekend because my mother has been ranting at him because of me. He thinks she is totally mad and not for one minute does he think that J and i are anything but friends.

I also want to thank J for being able to laugh about this...We have become close after going through some very hard times but we are also able to enjoy the good times aswell, i know she is always there and she knows that i am here for her and her daughter to.

My children are wonderful, although my daughter can be a bit of a handful at times, especially when she returns from a visit with her dad.
I truely hope that they will never think that i am a bad mother, but i find myself alone after 21 years of being with my husband and it is very strange to be going out as a single person again, but its also nice to be able to have some fun with friends....even though my mother is against it.

thanks guys it really helps to know you are there and watching out for me

Sandra x

[axa]

Sandra,

Would agree with what the others say.  What interests me is how easily you loose your power to your mother.  She sounds like an extremely angry woman.  I agree with Hops you do not have to listen to that bull.  I have no doubt that she is not going to change at this stage and maybe that is something you could look at.  Expect the worst from her and work on your truth which you allow her disintegrate.  This could be a big challenge for you but significant in your desire to not allow yourself to be bullied.

I hear bully bully bully in her treatment of you.  you have enough to deal with right now and your friend sounds like a supportive and fun person to be around.  Listen to those who are good to you not those who bully you.

Well done for coming here with this,

axa

[spyralle]

Firstly I just wanto say((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Sandra))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).  I know how hard it is when you actually start seeing your mother in a different light and how ahard it is to break a lifetime pattern of fear and just giving it for a quiet life.  I will say though that when you start to open your eyes to see beyond the good mother illusion you have created it is very difficult to ever see her the way you originally did...  Am I making sense here lol..

I don't think this is about you being a lesbian either...  I agree that this is about control.....total control..  My God now you have a friend to start leading you out of her control...  J may, dare I say it, suggest that you don't have to be under your mum's power and what would your N mum do then...  She is trying to fill you with guilt and pain and isolate you from your friend..  let me guess here  I bet you were worried that J would get upset and that would be the end of your friendship...  See she is secretly hoping that to...  How very manipulative..

Sandra....Get out there.. enjoy your life..  Become the woman that you really want to be... shake of the shackles girl and proclaim your right to be in this world and do what the hell you damn well please...  Enjoy your friends....  I bet if you think hard she has interfered in more friendships than this one...  Sounds like J is lucky too , to have such a great friend as you, so celabrate your unique lovely wonderfulness...

Spyralle xx

[sandra]

My mum has not spoken to me since the argument on Sunday but has sent many text messages so i thought i would share them with you and see if you can see the problem

Darling Sandra, I am so sorry. but when he left you when ever you wanted me you called and i was there but just recently i have hardley seen or been out together even on your birthdayyou were quiet i asked you then what was the matter. i feel so left out now and it hurts i love you with all my heart you know that. i have not seen you or the kids this weekend and that hurts nite love always xx

I can't help it if I love you so much no one will ever love you as much as I do and I hate it when I dont see you or the kids dont blame me for feeling that way.

I did not say that you were a lesbian all I said was that it was not nice seeing you in bed with her this weekend was about youu not being with the kids i agree you want to so something for yourself but dont cut the one out that has been there for you through thick and thin for the past 11 months. I will do my best Sandra to let go of the love I have for you it hurts too much when your let down you know how that feels i cant help how i feel you are the only true love of my life dont blame me for that i will always feel that way till the day i die.

i will shut up now but there were a load more all about the same thing

thanks for listening

Sandra x

[reallyME]

Sandra:

How can i get it through her head that nothing is going on

You really can't.  If she is a true narcissist, she isn't going to be reasonable at all.

and that i am going to stay friends with J no matter what she says

.

You're HOW old?  Sandra, you are an adult who has a right to make your own decisions and associate with whomever you desire to.  Time to "snip the apron strings" with Mommie Dearest there   Just do "yer thang" girl, without guilt, without shame.  Love your mother, even pray for her, but stop trying to answer to her.

...and that i am not a bad mother for wanting to have a little fun

Although I don't believe in going out drinking, personally, I still would not define you as a "bad mother" for having a friend to hang out with.  You won't convince your Nmother of anything, so I wouldn't even waste your time or breath attempting it, honestly.  Just enjoy your friend.

....I always put the children first before anyone and anything.......I love them so much and i would never do anything to hurt or upset them....

Ya know what, Sandra...it seems to me like you have had to spend most of your life defending yourself in your family.  You don't need to give anyone tons of reasons why you did or do what you do.  You don't need to try and find ways to protect yourself for having the right to choose your own actions.

 Try to relax, take a few deep breaths and repeat after me..."I am not my mother's "child" anymore.  I am a grown adult who can make my own decisions, without having to defend them to anyone, including HER! I am an individual in my own right, and I HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE MY LIFE AS I CHOOSE."

i did talk to my son about me being away for the night and he said i am 16 not 6.

Sounds like what my daughter might say.

please tell me Am I a bad mother??

Tell yourself instead "I AM NOT A BAD MOTHER OR A BAD PERSON EITHER.  Nobody defines me, except GOD and ME"

~Laura

[Hopalong]

Hoo boy.
Your poor Mom.

She's not right, she's dependent, enmeshed, engulfed, and can't see herself as a separate adult human being...so when you pull away, she's devastated.

I never was jealous of my D's friends, but I know the sickness she's speaking from. Thank god my D was tough enough to pull away and individuate in spite of my pain.

The thing I had to get was that yes, I really was in great pain, because my enmeshment with my D was real, and my pain was real...but it was not my D's job to fix it, it was her job to increase it so we both could become healthier.

And that's what happened. There's more adult communication between us, and it's less frequent. I feel happier, too. (I'm also not letting her take advantage of me, which I'd trained her to do.)

Your Mom will be all right, but you have to be tough about it. (It might not hurt to give HER that famous list of boundary "rights"--so she'll know where you're --newly-- coming from.)

Hops

[sandra]

thank you for all your advice.

i know i have to get tough and thats the hard bit, i will try and get stronger and deal with this......No....... i have to get stronger. i am 42years old and its time to stand up for what i believe in.....So here goes wish me luck.....i am going to need it!!

Sandra x

[Bones]

Much luck ((((((((((((((((((Sandra)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))!

Bones

[debkor]

Sandra,

She is acting like a jealous kid. She's resorting to (stupid words) now. She can only do what you allow her to do to you and it worked. She pissed you off. She made you question if you are a bad mother. She hurt your feelings.
Roll your eyes in your head and think OMG what a pain in the ass she can be. Don't let her affect you.  It's your kids, your a grown woman and you can do what you like, you have the right to enjoy yourself. You can get Plastered Drunk if you wish. You do not have little children that you left alone.   You do not need anyone's permission to have fun or your mothers backlash because you did. She will not tell you what to do. She will not ruin your fun. You will do what you want, where you want, when you want.  She does not tell you how to take care of your children. She's the grandmother your the mother. She's over stepping her grounds.   When you need advice you will ask for it.
You do not need her permission to have a good time.  Don't give her permission to let her make you feel like a bad mother because you did.
ROLL YOUR EYES GIRL(practice) What a pain in the ass my mom can be, then roll your eyes again. Get those little messages that she can plant in your head the hell out. Picture a big STOP sign over her mouth when it gets running and think in your head Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Like in the peanuts cartoon's when you hear just the noise of when a parent is speaking. You never hear them you just hear sounds, Whhaa, whahah, whaaa, whhahaha whaa whahhwhwaaa wha whanna.
I believe she loves you but she can't control you. Don't let her.
And no your not a bad mother and your not just someones mother, your an individual who deserves some personal time with other grown up people without Kids coming along.

Swhoo , I must of had to much coffee today cause I am fired up.

Love
Deb

[reallyME]

Deb:

I believe she loves you but she can't control you. Don't let her.

Ok, this brings up the question again...DO Narcissists truly LOVE anyone?  Can they?  Are they capable of it?

Although Sandra did not say whether her mother was actually diagnosed as NPD, Sandra does think her mother has those characteristics.  If she is a true NPD, do you really think it's fair to tell Sandra that her mother loves her, when most likely, the woman has no clue about mature, adult, true love?

Someone who merely tolerates someone else, especially in the hope of controlling them, is NOT showing love, as far as I'm concerned...whether they try to wear and bear the label of "mother" "father" or "parent"...and, if I sit in a garage and say "BEEP" it doesn't turn me into a car either.

Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery

~Laura