Author Topic: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---  (Read 3610 times)

isittoolate

  • Guest
Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« on: May 04, 2007, 07:32:47 PM »
Has anyone put it together, realized that I did the very thing that my daughter did? She was trapped and her husband was in the “divide and conquer” mode
when he dismissed me, and she was----let me call it “speechless”-----unable to understand. We didn’t know about Ns

When she was divorced for 2 years and very busy with work, University and 3 children, we didn’t see much of each other but her e-mails helped to close that gap that not seeing each other had created. Being in her presence still made me/us uncomfortable.

Then I met the N. I was charmed off my feet. Saw him every day, sometimes twice in one day, dinner, movies, walks in the park, traveling around to visit his friends and knew he was leaving for the West to start a new business here. I remember saying, “I miss you already and you’re not even gone”.  And he responded with, “Who knows. You might be coming with me.” He searched for his birth parents and, found them and took me to meet them----I “ hated” them both . He loved his mother but not his father and was just like his father.

Then the relationship took off and I moved west with him.

His mask fell off and I had a raging, verbally abusive N on my hands., just as my daughter had.

He suggested I invite daughter and 3 kids for summer of ’99, which I did. Take out a houseboat for 5 days. Scenic trips. I was making all the plans, when he said he wanted his son to come out and made plans for him to catch the very same flight. I knew, after the fact, he had set me up,

Now everything was HIS and I never had a chance with Daughter to talk. I had given her the keys to my car and said she could use it whenever! And very often she was gone in the a.m. for the latter ˝ of her visit. I knew then she was regretting coming out. I knew it was the N.(Just like I knew how I felt around her N.) I couldn’t get a chance to talk/ask, whatever. 3 kids running around, 8, 11 and 13. oh and the Ns son 17 who was more immature than my 13 yr old grandson.

‘Twas the 8 yr old’s 8th birthday, June 13, and N and his son took off and didn’t join us, but daughter’s ˝ sister was there with her 3 kids.

ALWAYS somebody around and who arranged that? Not me!! Might have been daughter, but N sure had a hand in it.

We had a huge disagreement and he threw the keys to the Van at me—rented Van for all of us Cost $1000.00.

GOOD!! I then handed them to my daughter and said, “You are driving us back to Vancouver for the flight home”.

We packed a lunch and off we went to stop at her ‘sister’s ‘ on the way. We were all left waiting as they walked over the hill to look at the horses, after N said, “You have just 15 minutes!” After 15 minutes he just blared the horn, and after a few times I said, “The more you blare the horn, the longer they will be. She was married to Gus. Remember?”

I tell you she is one great driver. It was raining and she was driving the Highway, past Hope Slide and was taking pictures with her camera at the same time and never a flinch of trouble. (I taught her, at age 10, how to drive!  Bravo! Me!) In the meantime N had to sit in the 3rd row of seats and did nothing but b*tch and complain about the heat, the lack of air, etc and that is what the kids had gone through all through the Van travels. He never put it together. They  never see comparisons, and he had crabbed to me about the kids in the 3rd row crabbing.

He was so upset at all the money he had to spend, and all I said was, “If you had left your son out of it, it would have been ALL MY expense. The houseboat, the Van, but since you brought him in to help ruin things for my family, you PAY!

My daughter and I have been through the same type verbally abusive relationship and I cannot, yet, get her to see the parallel, but I’ve told my Therapist that I HAD to meet the N to know what my daughter had endured for 10 years.

Comments????

Izzy

debkor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 08:40:06 PM »
Izzy,

You know so many people truly have compassion and sympathy but can not fully understand what it is like to *live it*. 
You know exactly what your daughter endured.

I don't know Izzy but sometimes I see resistance from my own kido of mine (daughter) of a back off, kind of competition of knowledge thing with me.  Maybe it's a mother daughter thing? Especially at a young adult/adult age. 

It's very hard to be a mom *protective of kids*  when so many times you would say, don't do that, or I won't let you do that just for them to do it and it turned out exactly like we knew it would. Not because we were ALL WONDER OF THE WORLD BRILLIANT QUEEN MOTHERS OF MOTHERS!! Just because we were alive alot longer then they were and experienced some things they were heading for.  And how do they interpet it?  I KNEW IT, I TOLD YOU SO!!
Even if you don't say it.  Ay Yi,

I know how to be a mom but the *protection* is not always necessary since she has become an adult and I'm trying to be friend also.  Balancing it can be difficult, for both of us. 
Love
Deb

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 08:48:55 PM »


Hi Iz,

In the chronology of things, where did the finding and meeting of the birth parents take place?  I'm thinking that the meeting with them might have triggered his personality change/narcissism.  Not that examining it  will help get you and your daughter where you want to go.  Just a thought.

tt

Then I met the N. I was charmed off my feet. Saw him every day, sometimes twice in one day, dinner, movies, walks in the park, traveling around to visit his friends and knew he was leaving for the West to start a new business here. I remember saying, “I miss you already and you’re not even gone”.  And he responded with, “Who knows. You might be coming with me.” He searched for his birth parents and, found them and took me to meet them----I “ hated” them both . He loved his mother but not his father and was just like his father.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 08:50:55 PM by teartracks »

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 09:08:50 PM »
I agree with you Deb, about knowing because we lived it, the "I told you so" never spoken.

All except "trying to be her friend." I cannot explain, but that really doesn't 'work'. You are her mother, first and foremost!!  I've read things, thought things, whatever, but I am following the so-called experts on this 'friend' thing.

I'll Grant you, right now. I would love to be my daughter's best friend. It will never be! I don't know the 'relationship' yet that we ought to have.

Any more thoughts----- on what to call a relationship of friends, other than friends-- or do you not agree?

Love
Izzy

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 09:33:36 PM »
Hi TT,

The birth parents-- Aha!

I  might have posted before, or thought I posted before or talked to myself what I would post-- but I find it interesting, in a way--but really disliked the whole venture with him--as he ignored his now dead adoptive parents. I thought it was odd and cruel? and relegated them to a point of being insignificant.

N was the result of a back seat romp of J & B at age 16 and was given up for adoption--somehow though, there was always a trail to where he went.

J was married and had another son by age 18, and he told me his bald spot is because the wooden shoes she was wearing hit him ion the head in the living room floor, when he was born. He is 'disturbed', a vagrant a dope and alcohol addict. He lived with us a while and I hated every moment. J is an ex-addict and alcoholic.

There are 3 girls, 2 are alcoholics and one is prissy broad who hates all this stuff yet stays married to her husband who smokes and drinks but cannot do it in his own home.

I met them all and was not impressed with any of them, even 'J'.

Then we meet the 'B'. A big N if I ever saw one. On his second marriage and within 10 minutes of talking with her, while the two Ns took a walk, she was in tears about his behaviour. She has children and grandchildren, some illegitimate and they were never allowed on his property. Suddenly his illegitate kid pops up out of nowhere and he has some great 'splainin' to do Lucy

We stayed over a couple of nights and I saw 'B' in action with poor wife just jumping at his every bark!
 
N didn't like his 'father' and never kept in touch. 'B' had no tolerance for alcoholics----- and I was yet to find out N was an N, let alone an alcoholic.!

We left and that was that for B---but he gave me a comedy cassette and his wife gave me a crocheted dish cloth--they gave nothing to the N.

Iin less than a month we were headed west!

some family eh?
Izzy

debkor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2007, 10:55:57 PM »
Izzy,

No I agree with you.  I don't think I can be anything other then mother.  I'm just trying to find a balance see her as an adult. Know when to shut up and when not too! Realize she has boundaries now too. Oh man as much as she is learning, so am I.  It was so much easier when I could say, Time out!, in your room and that was the end of that.  Safe,sound, asleep. 

I always refer to my friends as family *good friends* but then I have other friends that are just that, friends, so what are they really, acquaintances?

Love
Deb

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 11:31:59 PM »
deb
I think there ought to be another term--maybe not--

If we are a mother that's what we are---it might not make us 'smarter than our kid' but the parent has more experience/knoiwledge than the child--iin regular cases.

I would like to write my D a letter and point out the parallel, sand tell her that my experience with the N has made me finally understand hers and the past!

With what be have both survived, we ought to be "on the same side".

Izzy



debkor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 12:02:32 AM »
Izzy,

Does your daughter see/know her ex as an N?  I really never knew what mine was for a long time I thought he was just an A**hole.  It was kind of scary when I learned what N really was and even more scary when I learned I chose one.
I know you know but I don't remember if your daughter feels the same/agrees or said anything.

Love
Deb

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 12:11:32 AM »
Deb

At first she said he was not an N, just an plain old ordinary as*hole.
I wouldn't dount but what she now believe he is a full blown NPD.

She has used the term.

what i went through, with her N, I saw her go through with mine!

iz

Stormchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • It's about becoming real.
    • Gale Warnings
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 09:29:10 AM »
I think all @$$hole$ are N to some degree. All of the behavior that we consider to be @$$holery is Neryness too.

Iz, in your shared pain there may be a shared future. I'll hope and pray for you.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13621
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2007, 01:22:12 PM »
Hi Iz,
Having learned the hard way for me that it was needed, I have a suggestion...only you can know if it's right for you and perhaps your D:

What about not telling/explaining/educating/analogizing about her exH for your D...(unless you're sure she agrees that her exH was a narcissist and that she's familiar with this kind of lingo and likes it...AND that she wants to discuss him with you, then you could briefly acknowledge the parallel).

What about just expressing your feelings of hope for future connection, when she is ready. Then asking her questions about her life now, that have nothing to do with the past?

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

debkor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2007, 02:56:35 PM »
Hops,

You know I very rarely say N outside this board.  Not that I'm trying to hide anything. When I have used the term people seem to not understand or don't want to understand.
They listen to the traits and acknowledge what they see, experienced, but when you say Narcissist it seems *a taboo word*
like they want to spit, throw salt over their shoulders and do 3 hops and a spin, like it's a bad luck word or something.
Or maybe it's a trigger for them. I don't know.

Love
Deb

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13621
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2007, 04:48:38 PM »
I know what you mean, Deb.
It's hard at times, imo, because it increases the isolation.

It's as though you're suddenly in a Hallmark store and someone said...
"Mother" and a treacle tree full of warbling birds just sprouted out of the floor in front of you.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Stormchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • It's about becoming real.
    • Gale Warnings
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2007, 04:57:39 PM »
The Bad Mommy Taboo. It's everywhere.

Iz, as soon as I typed that I realized - it's on a different subject than you had raised here, completely.

How are you doing?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 04:59:32 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Like Daughter, like mother--please comment---
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 08:17:50 PM »
I am confused, is how I am.

I left home at 17 to go to work. Parents did not support children not in school, but I went home every weekend or two ’out of guilt’ and helped clean the house. Mom was just newly in the wheelchair.

I felt just cut off at the knees when my daughter suddenly was “not my daughter’ but Gus’ slave. Helpless and alone, but I learned not be lonely. I learned fear for her, just as I had always had fear for myself.

The N was just an aberration to me and I have returned to” alone but not lonely”.

Much of the fear is dissipating, because I know she will be all right and I have but one more goal to reach.

Izzy