Dealing with today and origins of shame

[Gaining Strength]

Alice thank you for the information on betrayal bond.  I definitely need to read that book.  I have known for some time that I have not been willing to let go of something that I can't identify.  Perhaps I will understand it better by reading the book. - thank you - Gaining Strength

[alice]

Dear GS,

I'm very happy that you think that this book could help you.

I have been reading about your struggle with shame.  You descriptions are magnificent.

Towards the end of the book, there's an entry on shame and the author, I believe, says shame is the root cause of our unhappiness because shame is embroiled in and is a root cause/effect of the betrayal bond.

I hope this book gives you what it has given me.

Alice

[Alice]

Hi Ami,
I have also read about your struggles.  I'm glad you're on a new path. I hope you will get from this book what I have gotten from it.


Hi Kelly,
I've also read your struggles and again, hope you will get from this book what I have gotten from it.


We can feel free and happy.  Yes, it hurts so much to acknowledge the betrayal bond relationship we had with our parent/s, but THIS IS OUR REALITY and it is much healthier for us to ACCEPT this reality, rather than DENY it or HOPE to change it (if our parents will not change). 

If we accept the betrayal bond relationship we had with our parent/s and in a very zen like way, GIVE UP our DESIRE that things be/were different from the way they truly are/were, then, we can FREE OURSELVES.  I suppose this is the essence of the cliche that the "truth shall set you free".

For us, there will be no more magical thinking, no more self deceit, no more denial.  We will now face the truth, experience the pain and then move thru the pain into LOVING ourselves.  As the book says (and many books say) THE MOST IMPORTNAT RELATIONSHIP WE CAN EVER HAVE IS THE RELATIONSHIP WE HAVE WITH OURSELVES.  This idea is closely related to Steve's discussion of why it is "good" to be selfish.

Thank you so much, Steve.  Your ideas have been such a jumping off point and inspiration to me.  We all help each other; it's a beautiful thing.

Alice

[Gaining Strength]

In the mornings, pre-dawn, the weight of the lonliness rests heavily on my soul.  The feeling that noone is for me, that I am in it all alone.  These are indeed old tapes but now I have a name for some of it - I now understand that my N father was actually unconsciously ready to sabotage me.  That burden rests on me in the wee hours of the night.  I'm tired of this burden.

[Alice]

I now understand that my N father was actually unconsciously ready to sabotage me.

Yes, sabotage, betrayed you.

That burden rests on me in the wee hours of the night.  I'm tired of this burden.

I think it's only a "burden" if you view it as a "burden".  Let go of the burden and you will feel lighter.  You hold the power over this burden.  It's your choice as to what you want to do with this burden:  carry it with you or let it go?

Do you think that if you accept and acknowledge the sabotage and the betrayal, you can let go of the burden?

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "burden"

[Overcomer]

gs I am with you this morning-holding your hand!  I had a revelation this weekend-I am going through this to get over it.  If I had not worked with my mom for all there years it would have never have come to a head and I would still be under her control.  As it is now I have a resolve to step into a new realm.  We can choose to be victims or we can step out of our pit.  It is not easy or fast but I believe it will happen!  Like my tag line says-the only way out is through!  Have a good day!!

[Alice]

But when my father gave it to me he didn't give me any money to fix it up.

Dear Gaining,

I am sorry to hear about your potential loss of the house.  However, this line struck me and my question/idea is:  Why did you expect your father to give you money to fix the house?  He gave you the house and that seems to be a big gift.  Why did/do you feel "entitled" to recieve an additional gift of fix up money?

If you didn't have your own fix up money, couln't you have asked father/family for fix up money?  or gotten a mortgage/loan? or declined accepting the house since you knew you didn't have the money to fix it?

Please understand that it is not my intention to be mean to you with these questions.

I have been reading your story.  I am so sorry you were widowed and left with a young child.  That is probably the worse stressor a person can undergo.  I know that your life has been very hard, between your N parents and your widowhood.

But, I also see a sense of entitlement and expectation for family money.  Do you think that this entitlement and expectation is a burden that is dragging you down?  Do you think you would feel freer if you were financially independnet of your family?  On the other hand, are you in your father's will?  If you are in the will, then it's probably better to wait out your inheritance.  I know it's very hard to support yourself with a young child.

Also, is the house in your name?  if it is, how can father take the house away from you?

Alice

[Overcomer]

i think gaining said her dad was going to take it back and fix it up so her brothers could use and enjoy it.  That does not seem fair..

[Overcomer]

And I am a daughter of wealthy  parents.  I think it just irks up that our parents watch us struggle and not only do not help us but expect for us to accept abuse and to live our lives according to their will!

[Gaining Strength]

I actually came on to post something different but I will first respond to your post Alice. 

My expectation of money has todo with the background I grew up in.  I am aware that the expectation of money sounds unreasonable  to some but for those who grew up with money it is a norm.  My family and friends were wealthy.  All of my cousins, friends, acquaintences had money and anticipated that their families would bequeath them money.  It wasn't only my expectation that I would have money, the community around me assumed it as well.  Our family is known in our community as wealthy.  My family owned a large manufacturing concern which at one time employed 1000s of people.  It is not rare for someone to hear my name and to ask if I am related to the company family.  It is just a well known name.  I've had people I didn't even know at a bar say - why don't you pick up our tab, you have plenty of money.

If it isn't your norm, it is hard to understand but psychological struggles have much to do with norms.  My norm was wealth.  There is noone who grew up with me who would not have expected to receive wealth.  That's just the way it is.  One of the families I grew up with and socialized with is on the Forbe's 400 list.  We considered ourselves equals.  I do understand that if you didn't grow up that way it is difficult to understand but it is not something that I can easily explain and it is not something that I can defend.  It simply is.  And it can't be let go of anymore than other losses.  It was a reasonable expectation.

[Gaining Strength]

Yes Ami - that's it.  You've said what I am feeling.  I need a debriefing.  I need someone to care.  We would know that a little child could not bear up under this - well we are those little children and no one ever cared.  We are those little children in grown up bodies.  It still hurts the way it did then.

[cats paw]

   I remember half watching an Oprah show about coming from priviledge - guests were Anderson Cooper and the granddaughter of -if I recall correctly- Warren Buffet? plus others.

   Old boy makes a big deal out of how he's not going to leave money to his grandchildren, and probably children, too if I remember that part correctly.  It struck me as odd.  I can understand wanting to share with others in the world besides family, but he had sooo much I couldn't understand why he was taking an almost harsh pride in his stance.  At least that's how it came across to me.

   Bottom line is that a person can do whatever they want with their worldly accumulations.  It can be just another way for drama and foibles and life to unfold.  Less dysfunctional families handle all life's issues in less dysfunctional ways, whether they are wealthy or not.  No matter what our wounds, they are ours to investigate in their particularities.  Yet the common denominator of the human condition is woundedness, and I am grateful to have safe places to try to heal.

cats paw

[Alice]

Dear Gaining,

I understand about coming from money.  I also come from a wealthy family, so I understand.

I'm not comparaing myself to you, we are all indiviuals, but, coming from money, I realized the lifestyle which the money allowed me to have, so I asked myself how I would continue this lifestyle?  I wound up getting an MBA.  My degree enables me to earn a good living.

My sibling pursued academia and therefore does not make as much money as I do.

I guess I'm saying to look at your assumption that because you grew up waelthy, you would always have family money.  Unless there was an irrevocable trust in your favor, did you ever question your assumption?  What were your parents' attitudes about giving you money?  Sounds like they were not generous with you and I'm sorry for that.  Sounds like you lived a wealthy lifestyle when you lived under their roof BECAUSE you lived with them, but once you left their house, you were on your own, financially speaking.

I also saw the Oprah show about Buffett's granddaughter and that's a case in point:  Her grandad is like one of the waelthiest men in the world, but she's practically shopping at K Mart.  So, she could not assume that she would be living a jet set life, but neither does warren buffet.

Do you think that examining your assumptions about living a wealthy lifestyle AFTER leaving the family home could bring you some clarity, and acceptance?

Perhaps the fact that you assumed that you would have a wealthy lifestyle after leaving your family home and then finding that your family failed to give you money is a major part of your betrayal bond relationship with your parents.

This is really none of my business, but thought I'd try to think it through.

Alice

[Overcomer]

OK, I have two people who have parallel lives - GS AND Ami........Both of you said it like I feel it.  I, like GS, grew up with money.  My parents bought me cars, I had a huge room with my own bathroom, we had a pool out back, we took trips to Hawaii, etc.  But funny, from the time I was 16 I worked and never asked them for spending money.....I always had enough on my own.

But later on after I moved out my mom gave me $10,000 for a down payment on a house.  Nice, right? I think that was the last "nice" thing she did for me.  After that I had to ask.  I always made it on my own.  But while my mom dropped $1000 on an area rug, I ate at work (restaurant) because there was no food in the fridge.  I didn't want it then.  I was still in a time in my life when I didn't know what codependent meant.  I didn't even realize I was from a dysfunctional family.  I assumed everyone was like me.  I was such a people pleaser that I absolutely could NOT say no to anyone.  Boundaries?  What boundaries?  My mom threw guilt and shame on me daily.  I went underground.  In her face I was pretty much whatever she wanted me to be.....behind her back I was a drunk, a drug user, promiscous, etc.  I don't know, now I think subconsciously I was trying to break away even way back then.  (We are talking 30 years ago.....)

But fast forward to today.  I am 47.  I know what I am doing at my job.....my mom is over the hill but she is so preoccupied with staying young looking (facelifts and tummy tucks....) being well thought of (drops huge amounts of money at the Christian school and loves getting a golden shovel for ground breaking ceremonies.........................meanwhile I pledge $20 per month.....she writes out a check for $5000.)  Most successful...............lives in a huge home, drives beautiful cars, etc.  But she makes me work WITH her which I cannot stand.  And the reason for that is I need to be there to make her look good.  But my house is falling apart, I don't spend much time with my kids because of my harried schedule..........I get up at 5 leave work at 3....run home, pack lunches, do chores and out the door driving kids around.  Meanwhile my grandmother goes over to my mom's house and dusts for her.  You should see the 1/2 inch of dust on my furniture.  My mom can afford to pay a housekeeper.  My grandmother cleans my other aunts house, too.  I told my mom just once I would like a card with a gift certificate for 4 house cleanings, or something like that.......    You see, even my mom has help from her 91 year old mom.  I don't get help from my mom unless I ask.  My grandmother offers it to my mom.  I have to ask.    Throw my a bone here, mom.

Do we sound like spoiled brats??  Sometimes I think my mom thinks I am.  She uses the word entitled so much that I bristled with Alice said that to GS.  Entitled?  Yes, I am entitled to all your money since you neglected me while you were out making your fortune!!!

[Alice]

Dear Kelly,

I used the word "entitled" because I have read that nacissicists feel entitled.  I was trying to explore a connection between a narcissicist who feels entitled and the entitlement felt by the children of a narcissicist regarding the narcissicist's money.  Maybe the feeling of entitlement spills over into the next generation.

I think you wrote that you feel entitled to your mother's (the narcissicist) money because she owes you for neglecting you while she was out making the money.

Here's the question:  Does the debt she owes you out weigh the misery she causes you?

If you think your mother will give you the money, why not ask her for it?  If she won't give you the money, and you still want a relationship with her, can you put up force field boundaries so that she cannot hurt you?

I think that the feeling of being entitled to a parent's money hurts us much more than it hurts them.  That's why feeling entitled to parent's money is not good:  the feeling of entitlement hurts the adult child much more than it hurts the narcissicistic parent.