Author Topic: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom  (Read 10428 times)

WRITE

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2006, 10:40:01 AM »
Write

something strikes me: you have the gift of a healthy 10 year old child and yet you say you live alone! You have a child who will most probably be at your side when you die, isn’t that important, a comfort?


my child and I are close, yes, he's a gift and he will always be a light in my life. Is he my life companion- absolutely not!

This thread is about the existential causes of therapeutic breakdown. He does not feature in the dynamics of that except it is a meaningful thing to do, raise a healthy happy child.

But it's something I notice over and over with parents I know, even those who would not be consciously controlling or abusive: they are in on the dynamics of the child's psyche, already have strong notions about aspects of the person's life which to my way of parenting are nothing to do with me.

I provide the values and modelling, and a comfortable safe environment, it's up to my son to grow up to be who he needs to be.

My friend who just had the baby had tears when I pointed out that I was raising him to be independent and go off from me to fulfil himself- she cannot yet imagine a separation point from her beautiful tiny baby.

But separation is not only inevitable it is healthy.

And in terms of giving meaning to my own life- I would never lean on my son to do that. He does not need to be engulfed in my big personality for one thing, but I see it as abusive to interfere and try to control the person he will become just because I am lonely, and doubly abusive to lean on him whilst I have been going through trauma.

He needs his childhood now and his personhood later.

Isn't that the whole point of this Board- we're reclaiming ourselves after having been swamped and disrespected by people close to us? Didn't it do unbelievable damage to not be respected and heard and allowed to develop our own selves? Wy would I pass that on a generation?

My son is not my purpose for living, and I certainly would not want to be his now or when he's grown up.

His voice and mine may share echos of each other but we are already two distinctly different separate people. We enjoy each other and support each other but it's mostly me supporting him- I guess the balance will tip a little as he grows up...and maybe one day we'll have a friendship, but it is quite a unique relationship and most people fall into the roles with their parents/kids from time to time! It's not entirely reciprocal.

This way of parenting has its downside- he can be forceful and argumentative for example, there's not much 'just do as I say' and we're not strong authority figures. But he also is already strong and thoughtful and capable. I just step in where I need to as a parent ( his father too ) and he uses his own developing judgement and self-discipline where he can. Therefore he has a strong sense of who he is and is already unafraid of the world and his own power.

I did not have a child to give purpose to me, I had a child because I wanted to nurture a baby to become a grown up. There's a certain amount of reliving your own childhood goes into that of course....but I hope I have given my son the experience I never had- of being accepted and loved unconditionally, with the expectations I have for him being for him to live for himself and fulfil himself not me.

When he's a happy adult living a free life with his own agency- that will be my 'reward', and if he's at my deathbed I hope it's just to say an affectionate 'goodbye and thanks mum' - in a 'so long and thanks for all the fish!' inevitability way, not 'I can't go on without you....' and certainly not bucketloads of resentment or unresolved family and personal issues ( the Staffordshire Way....)





« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 11:21:01 AM by WRITE »

Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2006, 11:40:53 AM »
Wow Write,

there's a lot in there, thank you for taking the time to say so much.

There are things you say that I don't understand, or feel confused about, but what I really did not understand was you saying about living 'alone' when you do indeed share a home with your son and he shares it with you. I mean, that seemed important to me. Am i projecting big time? I really can't tell. On the other hand, if you don't tell people, they don't know, and i didn't know. Now i know. I take things (words) very literally sometimes. I also don't have any children so in that respect I am going to be ignorant about aspects of living with and raising children.

Death
if he's at my deathbed I hope it's just to say an affectionate 'goodbye and thanks mum' - in a 'so long and thanks for all the fish!' inevitability way,

I'm glad! That's what I meant.

not 'I can't go on without you....'
 
Did you think that's what i meant? i can't imagine a child saying that. Really, I don't think like that.  I was thinking that to have been loved in life and to know that when you're dying must be a comfort. But for a child to say that to a parent would be wrong...abnormal, weird and i didn't go anywhere there in my mind, no way. 


WRITE

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2006, 11:59:08 AM »
one of the big things which is happening to me right now with divorcing Portia is that I am having to let go my son in a way that doesn't feel entirely comfortable to me- moving away from managing his relationship with N-dad for one thing, but also his dad's insecurities mean he wants to be named parent, he wants our son 'more than me' in that way Ns have of I must be the number one or I'm nothing.....

And also, being fair- he does really want to be our son's father, and it has been his saving grace the way he will change for that child, and listen and adapt in a way he never has for anyone/anything else. He is extremely loving and devoted to him, it's extraordinary how he can be that way when it's so unlike him with anyon else.

But I have no illusions- my relationship with my son is not a priority for my ex. I am not a priority for my ex. He will switch off to me as time goes on.

It's really important to me to handle all this positively and not turn our little boy into a battle pawn or to try and lean on him for support in a situation he doesn't understand.

No one understands N unless they have been there, and my son does sometimes comment on his father's unfeeling responses, or the irony of some of his 'about faces' or his dad's negativity or bad temper.

But I can't explain to him 'daddy has a personality disorder' ( wouldn't that be children's book of the year! ) It would make him insecure, he's not capable of fully grasping that daddy can both love him and not love him.

He knows I love him 100%, that I can and will change aspects of myself if necessary, that I don't switch on and off to him.

His relationship with his dad is more fragile, they do it better if it's consistent. And so he is drifting into living with daddy more and more, naturally, as they get into the pattern of resolving this.

I was wrong when i thought he could move back and forth constantly, it made him insecure because daddy can't transition.

It's really important to me to be clear what I am doing right now, not to be hurt or jealous or react negatively to something which is positive for them: he is my son's bigger role model for one thing.

I have to back off Portia and just step in to help manage things, and be waiting to pick up the pieces if ex reverts and things fall apart as they often do for him.

I've always been clear in my mind that I would not repeat my parents' patterns, though ironically I did repeat their behaviour in making a bad marriage & having children anyway/ drinking/ letting things develop to the point of intolerable etc.

But it's not a problem for me to sacrifice anything to my son- so long as it is healthy and in his best interests.

That's probably why I wrote so much- I am projecting out more than my basic parenting philosophy here!

Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2006, 12:09:06 PM »
Oh ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Write)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

so much I don't know. I'm glad you're posting and saying it. Better out than in? I'm going back to read again

Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2006, 12:21:41 PM »
Write, I have to leave off the board for now but a few things…

'daddy has a personality disorder' ( wouldn't that be children's book of the year! )

Wouldn’t it just. Imagine the law suits!

I have to back off Portia and just step in to help manage things, and be waiting to pick up the pieces if ex reverts and things fall apart as they often do for him.

You’re a good mother Write, I think so.

That's probably why I wrote so much- I am projecting out more than my basic parenting philosophy here!

And I’m glad you did write, Write. I learned! Thank you for telling me, us, so I can understand better and think that’s one heck of a situation you’re dealing with and dealing with well too. You're a strong woman Write 8)

Hopalong

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2006, 04:59:28 PM »
Wonderful dialogue...I'm glad you asked your question, P.
And Write, I felt shame when I read your description of your parenting...I fell so short of that mark.

But you inspire me a lot.
As I go forward with my daughter, I will keep your maturity in mind.

Your son is a very lucky boy. He has the best of you and the best his Dad can do, and you have been, and are, an extraordinarily fine mother.

I am awed. And I thank you for the example.

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

moonlight52

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2006, 10:40:48 PM »
Hi

Meaning is it maybe the blending of matter and spirit and the evolution of humanity?

The warming of one's heart and expansion of consciousness in the face of chaos seems to have great meaning.

Also can we find a way to celebrate life and for each human being to simply feel worthwhile ?

These are good things to ponder ......................and hope to come true for all.

moon

Plucky

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2006, 06:25:40 PM »
write,
I think there probably are children's books which deal with this topic, at least in a non-sopecific way.  I am sorry I can't offer to research for you, but I bet they are out there.
Plucky