Author Topic: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders  (Read 8451 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2007, 11:34:45 AM »
Peace, Janet--

Late to work so super short.

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if I allow myself to think of my mother as emotionally ill, then it excuses her behavior, and as a result, I should respect her for who she is right now given her disease, and allow her into my life.

it excuses her behavior-- no, I think it just explains it

I should respect her for who she is right now given her disease-- maybe "accept", not respect? Can't respect cruelty.

and allow her into my life-- oh no, no, heavens no. She's emotionally ill and might as well be a rattlesnake.

If you learn how to handle a rattlesnake as well as the Crocodile Hunter just for the sake of being able to walk through your life and you want to accept her as one of the things you'll navigate around, well okay...

But I think you're just as sane (or saner) if you choose to hike even paths through pleasant hills.

love to you both and I am mentally hanging every single piece of your precious childhood artwork in lovely frames all around my home.

Those reactions from your mothers were heartbreaking to hear. Only sick broken blunted emotionally amputated "mothers" (small m) would do that to a child.

I think you both need to let out your suppressed inner artists!!!!

lots of love,
Hops

CB--You are so so wise. You have seen it and named it and you're just so not confused. You help me think more clearly every time you write.

love
Hops





"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

JanetLG

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2007, 01:30:00 PM »
Thanks for all the affirmation as to my 'suppressed inner artist', etc! I have always thought that making me throw away my artwork was one of the meanest things my NMum did. Every time I design something new, I think: " Pppprrrrph to her!" (My husband says this is how you spell a <raspberry> in an email!)

Peace,

As to understanding your mother to be emotionally ill, leading to having to excuse / accept her behaviour, which might lead on to having her back in your life...DON'T DO THAT, PLEASE!

Try to separate the two ideas. Possibly (I can't do this bit, but perhaps you can) you could 'understand' her as having a mental illness. That's an issue on its own.

Having reached that point, whether or not it leads to having her back in your life MUST be taken in context. If dealing with her causes you terrible stress, etc, regardless of whether she's ill or not, YOU deserve to have peace in your life. It shouldn't be that an *accurate* description of what she is/was means that you *have to* deal with her again. I have had NC with my NMum for 13 years now, and it's only gradually become bearable as time has gone on. To have gone back to seeing her, I now realise, would have taken away all that I have achieved over the years, because *they don't change*. She would be exactly the same to me all over again, if I let her within screeching distance of me. As CB says, she doesn't deserve to be in your life. As survivors of all this stuff, we sometimes have difficulties accepting that we deserve *anything*, safety and contentment included (or even a piece of chocolate :-)  )

Coming to some kind of acceptance leads to eventual peace of mind, I know, but then I think you need to move forward, not back into the pit.

Janet

Hopalong

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2007, 03:22:47 PM »
I seem to have overdone it.
I definitely think I'm allowed chocolate.

Cheeks bulging...

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

JanetLG

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2007, 04:06:22 PM »
Yes, Hops, of all the things I have had to re-learn, the ability to allow myself chocolate has been one of the easier ones  :-)

To *stop* eating it is a bit more difficult...

Janet

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2007, 07:40:23 PM »
Hops and CB, what I am hearing is that a decision to cut someone out of your life when they have an illness is OK under some circumstances – and that it is OK to take care of yourself.

I so desperately want to believe this, but I really struggle with it.  I am like the elephant who was chained their entire life who finally snapped.  I broke the chain at the stake and have walked away, against all training, but the chain (guilt) is still around my ankle – and I see no way to get rid of it. 

I think as a result of many factors (societal brainwashing; religious brainwashing at a very young age – complete with threats of hell-fire, brimstone, and eternal damnation if I did not comply; severe corporal punishment; emotional neglect; etc.), I have a belief that no matter what, you have to respect your parents, and even if you can’t respect them, you owe them. 

She is also such a sad person.  She would often come crying to me that her life was so hard, that living with my father was so difficult and draining.  I was always expected to be there to pick her up whenever my father turned it on her (little ironic that I had to pick myself up – she was never there for me when he turned it on me).  Nonetheless, I could understand this, it was very difficult living with my father.  For me to cut her out of my life, I feel like I am kicking a puppy that has already been kicked. 

I also realized from something that Ami posted that I never really thought of my mother as abusive when I was a child – she rarely hit or screamed, whereas, my father was over the top abusive – raging, screaming, slapping, shaking, hitting… She was my yardstick as to what was normal.  It wasn’t until last year that I realized that the yardstick I was measuring against wasn’t quite right.  Even though she didn’t hit me, she was toxic wasn’t she?  I am beginning to realize that she is more like a great white shark disguised as a puppy – which is helping.

Like Janet said (so much more succinctly) – as children growing up with parents like these sometimes we have difficulties accepting that we deserve *anything*, safety and contentment included. 

What a tangled mess.  Good news is that I am slowly unraveling it string by string - thank you all so much for your responses!  I am so used to only having myself to rely on that it is hard for me to ask, let alone trust, someone else to help me.  On many different levels, it has really helped me to hear your responses – thank you so much.

Now I am ready for some chocolate!!!

Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination

Hopalong

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2007, 08:53:31 PM »
Hi Peace,

What an amazing, outstanding image

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she is more like a great white shark disguised as a puppy – which is helping.

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I am slowly unraveling it string by string


You sure are.

I have total confidence.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

finding peace

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2007, 09:37:56 PM »
((((((Dear Ami)))))))

Thank you so much.  I felt so protected when I read your post - it was a wonderful feeling (no one ever protected me as a child). 

It has been an emotional rollercoaster for me over the past year.  While I am 99.9% resolute in my decision to go NC - I still suffer from guilt as a result of this decision.  Sometimes I can remind myself of all the abuse and dump the guilt, and at other times, I forget the abuse, and am swamped by the guilt.

At one point, I had hoped that I could be strong enough in myself to allow her back into my life – if I could do this, then I could get rid of all that guilt that I am hurting another human being, that I am disappointing the rest of my family not to mention society in general (not that that is a real big concern), and I could do this and still be at peace with myself.  A win-win solution.  I am coming to realize that this is a pipe dream.  I am standing on that bridge looking down at that nasty, slime-filled, radioactive, sludged-filled water and I don’t think I could bring myself to jump in for any reason.  I used to think that guilt was the price I had to pay for my freedom, and that all in all, it was a small price to pay considering the alternative.  However, after joining this board, I am beginning to realize that maybe I don’t have to pay anything.  Maybe I can consider that IOU paid in full.

In another thread, axa made a reference to peeling back the layers of denial (thank you axa).  I think that this is true for me - I am still in the process of peeling back the layers of denial.  As I peel more and more layers back, although painful, I understand at a deeper more fundamental level that she really was toxic and that I can let go of the guilt.  It still hurts.  I do feel sorry for her; she was once a small baby who desperately needed nurturing and love as well.

That being said, through your posts, as well as Janet’s, Tayana’s, Hop’s, CB’s and so many others on this board, I am realizing that she is no longer that baby.  The damage has been done, and I cannot fix it for her.  Your reference to her as a crocodile and Hop’s reference to her as a rattlesnake was spot on – and as I peel back the layers I realize this at deeper and deeper levels.  As you described it so perfectly, I can keep feeding the beast, but all I will accomplish is getting myself bitten.  I am learning that my energy is better served where it will have a more positive outcome for all involved.

Please know that I am doing better than I have been in a long time.  I so appreciate your concern – it comforts me.   

Thank you again,
Peace and namaste to you my friend.
- Life is a journey not a destination

JanetLG

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2007, 06:44:33 AM »
Finding peace,

This bit of your post says it all really:

"I cannot fix it for her"

You did all you could (and loads more) in putting up with her, in shaping yourself to try to be what she wanted (impossible with an N, of course, as they keep moving the goal posts), and parenting her when it should have been the other way round.

The damage has been done, as you say. You owe her nothing. She would love to make you believe that you owe her forever, and society helps in that by making women feel that they should *always* have contact with their mothers, regardless of how badly they are being/were treated.

You need to put yourself first, second, third...and her LAST. She's had her go, and look at the damage she did (which, by the way, it is very clear to see by reading your posts that you are dealing with very effectively). Now it's your turn. This is not being selfish. This is survival.

You said that you are '99.9% resolute' in your decision to go NC. I think I know what you mean, and I have had NC for 13 years. I think the niggling doubts DO surface from time to time, and to expect them to disappear completely is probably unlikely. But 99.9% is a hell of a long way to safety than when you were seeing her on a regular basis, isn't it? Can you mentally replay a conversation from the past (probably ANY conversation would do), when she belittled you, attacked you, gas-lighted you, etc. Can you remember exactly how you *felt* then? Not just what words were said, but how you *felt*.THAT is what you are working so hard to protect yourself from.

I have a very useful video to remind me (works better than my memory!) - it is a video of a family therapy session (therapy which my Mum 'told me' to instigate, 'so that you'll learn how to fit in with the family better' - that's what she thought family therapy was). It was taken by the therapist, and  is 2 hours long, and shows clearer than anything else could, what her tactics for taking over a situation were, how she twisted the truth, how she lied, how she did what someone else has called 'that prune face' that they seem to do when they're at their worst...everything. If I ever waver, seeing that video again convinces me that I NEVER want to go back to how things were then...and they definitely would if I tried a reconciliation, because N's don't 'forgive and forget' and try to re-build relationships like normal people would. They just do the same old behaviour again.

You are so close to achieving freedom now, please don't give up and start trying to have a relationship with this toxic person again. She will not change, but you can, because you're a normal human being.

Janet

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2007, 08:20:11 AM »
The Prune Face!  the last time she did that to me I put my hand right up to her face and firmly said DONT!  I stood up and walked away !
Kelly

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finding peace

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2007, 11:45:43 AM »
Janet,

Thank you so much for that post. As I have less exposure to her, the acute pain is becoming a dull ache, and I sometimes think – well maybe I can make it work.

I completely forgot that after I had that final episode with my mother that I wrote her a letter.  I poured my soul into that letter – all of the pain, fury, and frustration.  It was very cathartic.  I never sent it – would have been utterly futile.  Without a doubt, no matter  what I said, she would have taken it and twisted it out of context to mock me for it or to make me the “bad guy.” She would have pulled it out at every opportunity to slander me to everyone in her life to get more NS, and she would have tried to use it to get back into my life.

I also have a couple of nasty e-mails that she wrote.

Early after my NC decision, I used to get those letters out and read them to remind me to stay strong.

I re-read them this morning – dumped the guilt!  THANK YOU.

Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination

finding peace

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2007, 11:49:09 AM »
Ami,

In my house, it was my father that made the rules that we had to live by (it was his psychotic glasses).  I tried so hard to meet those rules, but like Janet said, “impossible with an N, of course, as they keep moving the goal posts.”  I was constantly on alert, trying to gage his moods so that I, hopefully, could divert the abuse that would come if I didn’t read him correctly.  Everything and everyone catered to him.  When he was around, I went on hold, and became whatever I needed to become so that I wouldn’t get hurt.  (Lot of residual shame there – something to work on, I feel like I should have been stronger then.)

I can remember one time, he was really drunk, and he was on the floor.  I was sitting on the couch – there was no one else around.  He started coming towards me – crawling on all fours – I was terrified, it was as though he was stalking me.  I pretended I was going to get a drink and ran for my life.  I will never forget the look in his eyes – so empty and blank.  There was nothing there.  I saw evil.  After that incident, I tried so hard never to be alone with him again. 

I spent so much of my childhood terrified of him, that my mother’s toxicity went pretty much unnoticed.  It wasn’t until after he died that I began to realize how toxic she really was.  Her abuse was subtle.  It was like a slow drip of mild acid over time. Yeah it hurts a little when it happens, but you forget.  Every once in a while I would get a bucket of the strong acid from her, but for the most part it was mild drips (when compared to him).  I am beginning to realize that without him there, maybe that acid wouldn’t have seemed so mild.   It is a really nasty type of abuse, over time your soul is eroded and you wonder what happened.  You can point to a black eye and say yeah, I was abused – but how do you point to the scars on your soul.  It is real insidious – because they damage you, and then blame it on you for being damaged.

I am rambling here, but my mother’s abuse was so much milder than my father’s that I think of her as an emotional infant – mentally ill.  Maybe she is evil. 

I realized a long time ago that there was something not right in my father.  In some ways, at that time, I was able to shift my world view away from his psychotic glasses.  I am just beginning to realize the extent of how much of my world view was determined by my mother’s psychotic glasses.  You said it so well:

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“The perspective with which I saw the world was  distorted. It was like a 'fun house" mirror.”

I didn’t realize until last year how very true this was for her as well.  For me, in a lot of ways, it was my perspective of myself as well as my world view.  I have/had no self confidence, anxiety, PTSD, I thought I was a terrible person, difficult, over-sensitive, nasty, unlikable, etc.,

For me, by calling them mentally ill or evil, it is a path toward understanding that they are the ones with the problem not us.  It is a means of getting rid of the glasses and starting to rebuild myself.  There is a reason that they are the way they are that has nothing to do with me.  I tried so hard as a child to be what they needed me to be, to make everything right, to cater to them so they would be happy, but because of their nature, nothing I did worked.  I used to think it was my fault – no more.  It is their fault not mine. 

Your story of your mother is classic N.  She reminds me so much of my father and now, of my mother.  The kicking you to the floor, helping you get up, and then kicking you down again.  Twisting your decision to walk away, in such a way as to make her feel like she is doing the noble thing for you – I am so sorry.  You and Janet are so right.  There is no fixing it. 

You and Janet have reminded me of my current motto:  They stole my childhood, they stole my young adult life – she is not stealing one more second of my life.  The rest is mine. 

OK – back on track - got derailed for a bit – Thank you both so much.

Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination

JanetLG

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2007, 12:32:23 PM »
Oh Peace,

Can I have your motto as *my* motto? I think that's a brilliant one!

'Blaming you because you're damaged' is so typically N, that bit really resonates with me.

And also where you said you believed you were 'a terrible person, difficult, over-sensitive, nasty, unlikable, etc'. What is it about that word 'difficult' that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up? Could I have heard it before, somewhere? My mother, perhaps? How many thousands of times, I wonder? No wonder we end up thinking that these are *our* perceptions. We've been well and truly brainwashed, but we only have ourselves (and the peole here) to help us re-programme our minds.

But you're completely right, we don't have to give over to them even one more second of our lives any more.

Ami,

Trying to get 'normal people' (i.e. people who haven't experienced what we have) to understand the evil is like bashing your head against a brick wall, but we still keep trying, don't we? How any mother can build up her daughter just to bring her down again is beyond me. How on earth did we cope with it?

Janet

JanetLG

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM »
Thanks for that, Ami. It didn't feel like the right thing to do at the time, or for several years afterwards, or even now, sometimes. If I can see it objectively (as if I can see it happening to someone else, and I'm giving them advice about what to do) *of course* I'd tell them to run away and don't look back. But that is so HARD!!

I hate the woman, I really do, but I still feel that she's the only mother I'll ever have, so perhaps...and I waver. Weirdly, when I have nightmares about my past (yep, I still have them...anyone know how long that bit goes on for??) , it's my Nsister that appears in them much more than my Mum. I think that might be because my Mum doesn't try to make contact with me directly any more, but my sister does. And she's only 42 and going strong, whereas my mum is 70. The last time I got a 'missive' from my sister, it was a 3,500 word email rant out of the blue. Made me really freak out. Can't I *ever* get shot of these people? Grrr!

As to whether they're the same to other people as they are to you, from what I've read, no, they are not. They can sniff out a creative, sensitive, emotional and vulnerable person at a hundred paces. Like their own child, for instance. But a mature, confident adult would be someone they'd be afraid to try the same tactics with. They might be mad, but they're not daft!

Isn't it strange how, in so many posts on this board, people are always saying versions of 'Oh, and I thought it was only ME that felt like that/saw it like that' , etc. Validation from this site has done wonders for my confidence in my decisions. And it's given me some smart answers to give the next person who suggests I'm 'wicked' to have NC with my Mum!

Thanks very much to all of you.

Janet

Hopalong

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2007, 10:08:28 PM »
I don't know what hell is, Ami, but what matters most is that you build your own heaven.
It's peaceful and gentle and relaxed, and it has a special boundary door. You can look
across the threshold occasionally and see her, tracing her repeated circles in a dry field.

But for some heavenly reason, she can't come in.
You're safe, and you have your heaven within you.

When you remember, this is where you are.

love and much sorrow for what you've been through,

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Reasons for anorexia and eating disorders
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2007, 10:09:30 PM »
Peace,
I'm really sorry it still hurts you sometimes.

But I'm so glad you decided to be Peace.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."