healing

[Wildflower]

Hi R,

I’m glad you came back and posted this.  I was a bit worried about you.  I’m sorry that I’ve been the cause of pain for you, but I’m so relieved that there’s a silver lining for you (bubble popping).

But I just felt so AWFUL that you were thinking that's what I intended to say. And it felt like every time I tried to tell you that's not what I was saying, somehow you heard something EVEN WORSE!  I felt absolute DESPAIR!!!  As well as panic and all the rest.

Me, too, R.  I felt awfult that I was causing you so much distress.  And every attempt I made to clarify myself just backfired.  I'm hoping this time will be different?

I now feel as though you think I'm just a child who doesn't get it, and the real reason you didn't listen to me is that you didn't think I had anything of value to add to our discussions  

Gosh, what painful honestly. You said that you heard me say that this had 'changed'. But I never said that or implied that at all, in the first place or ever. So it couldn't have changed. That just wasn't what I was trying to say. It's so completely 'not' what I was saying. I can't emphasise enough that it's not what I was saying.

I believe you, R.  Maybe sometime when things have cooled down I can explain how I got here (if it even matters by then).  But for now, I believe you.

But I can't know where you're coming from

On my way home tonight, a bit bewildered by how you can’t see why I might have gotten so upset after all my attempts to explain myself, it dawned on me that perhaps it’s because we come from two very different flavors of N households.  Your mother smothered you and didn’t give you a minute to have your own emotions or anything.  I wondered if feeling ignored might be a welcome relief for you – not your worst fear and most powerful demon.  But in my house, I was ignored.  I watched Amelie again on Monday night and in the beginning, Amelie is a child being given a check-up by her father who’s a doctor of some sort.  Amelie is so deprived of attention from her father and longs so much for any human contact with him, that whenever he listens to her heart, it’s racing with excitement.  So her father thinks she has a heart condition!!  

Well, that’s just about how desperate for attention I was growing up.  Mom picked me up when she needed me, and then threw me back in the corner with the rest of her toys when she didn’t.  Whenever she was giving me attention, I tried so hard to be my best, but she couldn’t see me.  Not at all.  She saw many people (many she hated), but not me.  She misunderstood me completely – and not just in that misunderstood teenager way.  She completely misunderstood me from the time I was born.  She recently told me that I had always been strong and determined - even when I was a baby.  (I am, but it’s because I’ve had to be in order to survive – and this “strength” has even led to panic attacks and other stress-related problems.)  She told me that she used to watch me in my crib getting so frustrated when I couldn’t lift my head but she could “tell” that I was determined to find a way to do it.  Did it occur to her that maybe that look on my face was frustration as a result of having no help?  That I needed help because I hadn’t yet developed the muscles I needed to be able to lift my head?  Uh, no.

Actually, mom has all kinds of ‘definitions’ of me that are based on who I was forced to be in order to survive.  I’ve been shedding them like crazy lately, but every now and then, I slip back.  But I digress...

something I said tripped a wire, pressed an unexpected button. And now I wonder if you'll ever 'hear' me, who I am, because I got the impression somewhere somehow that you'd actually felt these things for some time and it had all suddenly burst forth.

Maybe if I explain what happened from where I sit?  Maybe it’ll make sense?  Maybe we can compare notes?  Before I set out on this path, though, please know that I have every hope that once we can find some common understanding here.  So…

Back when you were upset after RG shut down the threads, I reached out to you because I sensed that you were used to being the helper, but not used to being helped.  I sensed it because I identify with it. Or rather, that used to be a big problem for me.  I really don’t think I have a problem with people helping me anymore (you may see differently, but let me hint that I have a problem with being talked down to, not being helped. But I’ll get to that later if you're interested).

Anyway, when I reached out to you at that time, I got no reply, and you started new threads.  I considered the idea that what I was saying might be upsetting you, but what made me finally back off was the idea that I was preventing you from reaching your own answers by blocking off paths for you (putting up barriers at the end of your threads).  Now, I realized that this might be way off, so I sent you a pm saying I felt I was chasing you around and not being very helpful, so I was going to back off – so you would understand why I wasn’t responding anymore.

Then I noticed that you were responding (well) to CG and Portia.  So I thought, hey.  Cool.  She’s got support. Doesn’t happen to be me, but that’s not why I’m here, is it?  So I went on my way, responding occasionally but all the while knowing that CG and Portia made more sense to you.  I felt a bit excluded when you listed the members of your elite support group, but again, this isn’t a place for cliques – or getting feathers ruffled over them.  Nevertheless, I was relieved and happy to find out you did consider me to be among those who gave you support – in whatever way I had.

So, I kept all this in mind when you were upset on the anniversary of your father’s death.  I offered what support I had knowing that you would take it or leave it (most likely leave it), and some of what I said was even picked up and rephrased by CG and Portia.  Cool.  I did feel a bit ignored, to be sure, but I’ve learned to explain away that feeling because I know I’m sensitive to it and can't really expect anyone to reassure me all the time.  So when you said,

Dear Wildflower. If I say there's nothing you could say that could hurt me, does it mean to you that I'm not listening? I'm listening.

I thought, wow, am I sending out those signals and she’s picking up on them?  Well, I hope not, but in any case, it’s nice of her to think of me – and reassure me – without me having to ask.    I even felt good about NOT letting my weakness about feeling ignored get the best of me.

So when you said to me on Monday that you HAD been ignoring me (OUCH) , and not only that but it was because of something I was doing (as opposed to how you were perceiving me) (YIKES) , and not only that but hinted at the idea that EVERYONE might feel this way     , it hurt big time.  As you, yourself put it:

I 'naturally' take responsibility for everything that goes wrong and have to be quite 'sharp' in being aware that I'm not!!!

This is exactly what I was trying to relate in my delegation story – in an effort to explain how easily (as an ACON, my responsibility, but still) I was thrown into self-doubt when it was suggested that being ignored was my fault.

And of course I was forced into a new (and painful – I was being ignored after all!!) understanding of why you hadn’t been responding to my posts.      

There’s no way you could have known all this about me R, because I’m the only one sitting in my skin.  And I’m not angry with you anymore because I know you never meant to upset me.  But on a voicelessness forum, can you see why being told that you're being ignored might be very painful?

So, may I?

something I said tripped a wire, pressed an unexpected button.

But I can't know where you're coming from

This is why I am careful with people I don’t know - because I don’t know what their worst fears are.  I don’t know whether what I have to say is helpful or actually very hurtful.  That’s why I feel I can say that I have gotten to the bottom of my irrational fear of hurting people, all while continuing to be very careful with people.  Yes, I reach out.  But speaking my mind isn’t always a top priority to me.  Making sure I’m not saying something that, from someone else’s point of view, is destructive – often is.  This is different from protecting people from reality, which I try not to do - carefully.  

Furthermore, this is all part of my desire to understand people – in a way I never was.  And it's something I’ve had to reclaim, because for so long I was lashing out and too defensive (and in too much pain) to ‘see’ or ‘hear’ people.  Now, there may be problems with this desire to understand people, but right now, it’s not hurting me.  It actually helps me in many ways, but I'll save that for another time, if the subject happens to come up.  Can you take my word for it though?

And now I wonder if you'll ever 'hear' me, who I am

So, in answer to this, I want to hear/understand you.  I may not now, but I want to.  We're very different, R.  I feel like we certainly share some questions and answers and experiences, but we're coming from different places.  And I hope by telling you all this here, you can hear me a little more clearly, even if you don't agree with me.

All my best,
Wildflower

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

Not wantin' to cut across/into/out any of these workin's between Wildflower and Rosencrantz, but it's had me thinkin' about how I've related to people and read, interpreted and reacted to things people have said to me over the decades. When I was younger I used to be so LOUD. A real  'in your face' type.
Hard to believe, isn't it. hahahahahahaahahahaahahaah

It kept people 'at bay' though. That's how I protected myself. Then I became more considered, cause I had to, and I read lot's of books about conflict resolution, communication skills, blaah blaaah blaah. I can still react 'LOUD' (believe it or not) hahahaahahahahaha when threatened or embarrassed or feeling challenged. But it's usually mixed up now with thoughts like " What I think I'm hearing this person saying may only be my wonky antennae again."

It's not so much self- doubt, or maybe it is.   hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.

Reminds me of the joke, " I never doubt myself, hmmm, at least I don't think I do."  

But back in my gung-ho days, in public for example. I often have a razor quick wit, and tongue when strangers attempt to embarrass me. One day a couple of years ago, I was tired, had my period, just wanted to go to bed for the day. But I remember I had to go to the bank.

I parked the car, got out, kids in tow, and had to walk past some coucil guys doin' road works. The guys wolf-whistled at me and carried on like 2 bob watches. One guy yelled out, "Hey love, come over here and sit on my face?" I shouted back, didn't even think about what I was goin' to say, but loud-for-loud, out came "Okay, I'll be back in a min, and it's just the right time of the month too." The guy who shouted went bright red-faced and the others guys laughed and laughed so much at him. I just stuck my head up high and kept walkin'.

Then I had to walk back past them. I eyeballed them and laughed at them and said something even cruder about how he'd be even more red-faced when I got through with him. Yuuuuuk!!

That's sort of not relevant here because I didn't know those men, but that's what I used to be like. I had a smart-arsed answer for everybody. Now, I still think them, they pop into my head all the time,  but more often than not, I don't say them as much.

I used to be so rough on people. Way too rough. But now I've gone the other way. It's not that I'm afraid to hurt people. Maybe that's a small part of it. I don't know yet clearly, but I do know it 's got a lot to do with this. That I want to be able to control what I say and to be the one in control of my responses to others.

I don't have a problem with the situation I quoted above, with the council workers and would probably still do the same today, cause he was bloody rude, that bloke. But I used to be  like that most of the time, and  inappropriately. Some here may say I still am. And I'd probably reply , "Can it Jacko, at least there's a cure for my problem. What the F**k are you gonna do???"

It was my technique for keeping people in line if they were getting too personal when I don't want them to, or I think they are hurting me. Cutting and embarrassing them the hell out of them.

Like one time in a pub I was working in, a regular (alcho) customer who was a retired cop and a real smart arse, was sitting at his usual table with all of his old mates called me back to the table. He said he had something he wanted to show me. I said "What?" He started makin' out like he was undoin' his pants. I casually said as I turned and walked away, "Oh you men, you're always kiddin' yourselves thinkin' you've got a big one. I've never met a woman who couldn't always take just that little bit more!" and laughed at him and walked away. His mates went into hysterics and he was sooooo embarrassed. They talked about it for ages and he never smart-arsed me again.

So I guess some of us have found our ways to communicate and protect ourselves in many ways. I've come from the point of being too brutal with humour, and try now to be more considerate and respectful. Rosencrantz, you seem to have come from the opposite world of being 'too considerate'.

Anyway, there's a real brief summary on my communication history with strangers. That's one reason why I've never suffered never bein' invited to parties and stuff. My friends wouldn't dream of having a party without me cause they see me as good entertainment value.

But with my friends and family I'm different. I get brain-freeze and then can spend hours and days tryin' to work out the under-lyin' meanin's to what ever was said that disturbed me. I often can't think of quick or even slow come back or response. I get so caught up in tryin' to make sure I'm on the right ground first, that I often don't get to have my say at all.

And then for days and weeks I'm sayin' to myself, "Why didn't I say this, or that" and I think of the appropriate sometimes even brilliant  repsonse way too late  damn!!!

I have laways used humour to deflect attention, stop people from getting to close. The class clown, popular as hell, even with the teachers. I think nobody ever dreamed to check on me to see if I was alright, cause I was always crackin' jokes and happy and makin' people laugh.  

But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance. I'm sort of the poor man's Billy Connelly. I love that guy.  Hmmm, that'll do for now, I'm combing the recipe books to see what I'm gonna make for dinner on Satdy nite. Tossin' up on attemptin' the Chateaubriand that reads really easy to do in a totally cool 70's recipe book I got at an op-shop last week. I've cooked a couple of fantastic dishes out of it that surprised me how easy they were. The person who put this book together "Good Housekeeping Big Winter Cook-Book"" has made it all so fool-proof, so I'm game. But I think I'll buy the mustard hollandaise, I couldn't be bothered makin' that.

Thanks for letting me rave, oh yeah, ps, you know I can't be funny if I have to be. My husband had this gross habit of always telling people how funny I was, so they'd meet me and he'd say "Go on tell them about the time you did such and such." BALAAAAAAAH.

I couldn't make a funny if my life depended on it. I can't do it if I have to. A friend/business associate I had once asked to help out on some radio jingles. The guy wanted some humour in his radio ads. He thought I was the funniest person he'd ever met. (Probably 'cause he was always chasin' me round his office- building with a hard-on. Crackin' jokes was how I used to deflect him, it's pretty hard to keep a hard-on when you're laughin' your head off.) But I couldn't come up with one funny line in the meetings. Yet back in the car or at lunch with him they were flying out of my mouth like I was blowin' raspberries. I ended up sayin' to him, you'll just have to follw me around with a cassette player, and keep sexually harrassin' me, then we'll get these f**kin' ads done, and then I'm outta here. Aaaaaargh.

(((HIG)))
CG

[Wildflower]

Heh.  And as a PS.  I'm so frickin' earnest when I'm tryin to make a point.  Sheesh.      

Ahhhhh, but you haven't seen the mischievous side of me.  Bwahahahaha.....

Can I say, CG, that you remind me so much of a friend I had in high school?  She was always so much cooler than me, but she still kept me in tow anyhows... We used to get kicked outta class all the time, and boy did she have a blast pestering the uptight boys.  

(((HIGS)))
Wildflower

[Anonymous]

Hey, Wildflower, Portia and Rosencrantz, not wanting to deviate from your new post Wildflower, but did you see the 'statistics' post. hahahahahahahaha. Gee I laughed. I found myself wasting my time initially wondering what the poster's point was.  

You know, of course I immediately went all suspicious and defensive thinkin' stuff like "What is she or he trying to say here.   ?" "Is this a cheap guilt trip?"

But then I knew what it was for  and so I printed it out, and YES, I found it really useful.    Not to heavy, not to light, just right. Firm and not too harsh. Perfect, it was just what I needed, cause I'd run out of loo paper and had been holdin' off on havin' that big crap I just had    

(((HIG)))

PS, thank goodness I didn't have the thick glossy KODAK photo quality paper in my printer, or it would have slid halfway up my back and cost me 2 bucks a wipe. hahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahaha.
CG

[Wildflower]

But then I knew what it was for  and so I printed it out, and YES, I found it really useful.  Not to heavy, not to light, just right. Firm and not too harsh. Perfect, it was just what I needed, cause I'd run out of loo paper and had been holdin' off on havin' that big crap I just had  

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahaha

Wildflower

P.S. - That's ANOTHER post, CG.  Better keep up.  

[Wildflower]

Hey R,

Gosh, maybe I didn't need to put up my earlier post at the top of this page, but it seems like there's some useful explanation in there in case this still makes zero sense.

Simple, simple answer to why I got so upset in the first place:

If you had said, "I was ignoring you, but I'm sorry. I see now why I was ignoring you, but in the future I'll probably listen to you more."  I could have handled it.  Maybe you could have shared with me what prevented you from hearing me at that point, too, and I'd have been able to deal with it - maybe even adjust when posting to you.

I simply couldn't deal with the idea that it was my fault that you ignored me - and that everyone else might be, too.  THAT'S why I got so upset, because I'm sorry R.  It's not true.  People don't ignore me.  And even if they do, how can you know why?  And I can't help how you read my posts anymore than you can know where another person's coming from.

Wildflower

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

Not wantin' to cut across/into/out any of these workin's between Wildflower and Rosencrantz, but it's had me thinkin' about how I've related to people and read, interpreted and reacted to things people have said to me over the decades. When I was younger I used to be so LOUD. A real  'in your face' type.
Hard to believe, isn't it. hahahahahahaahahahaahahaah

It kept people 'at bay' though. That's how I protected myself. Then I became more considered, cause I had to, and I read lot's of books about conflict resolution, communication skills, blaah blaaah blaah. I can still react 'LOUD' (believe it or not) hahahaahahahahaha when threatened or embarrassed or feeling challenged. But it's usually mixed up now with thoughts like " What I think I'm hearing this person saying may only be my wonky antennae again."

It's not so much self- doubt, or maybe it is.   hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.

Reminds me of the joke, " I never doubt myself, hmmm, at least I don't think I do."  

But back in my gung-ho days, in public for example. I often have a razor quick wit, and tongue when strangers attempt to embarrass me. One day a couple of years ago, I was tired, had my period, just wanted to go to bed for the day. But I remember I had to go to the bank.

I parked the car, got out, kids in tow, and had to walk past some coucil guys doin' road works. The guys wolf-whistled at me and carried on like 2 bob watches. One guy yelled out, "Hey love, come over here and sit on my face?" I shouted back, didn't even think about what I was goin' to say, but loud-for-loud, out came "Okay, I'll be back in a min, and it's just the right time of the month too." The guy who shouted went bright red-faced and the others guys laughed and laughed so much at him. I just stuck my head up high and kept walkin'.

Then I had to walk back past them. I eyeballed them and laughed at them and said something even cruder about how he'd be even more red-faced when I got through with him. Yuuuuuk!!

That's sort of not relevant here because I didn't know those men, but that's what I used to be like. I had a smart-arsed answer for everybody. Now, I still think them, they pop into my head all the time,  but more often than not, I don't say them as much.

I used to be so rough on people. Way too rough. But now I've gone the other way. It's not that I'm afraid to hurt people. Maybe that's a small part of it. I don't know yet clearly, but I do know it 's got a lot to do with this. That I want to be able to control what I say and to be the one in control of my responses to others.

I don't have a problem with the situation I quoted above, with the council workers and would probably still do the same today, cause he was bloody rude, that bloke. But I used to be  like that most of the time, and  inappropriately. Some here may say I still am. And I'd probably reply , "Can it Jacko, at least there's a cure for my problem. What the F**k are you gonna do???"

It was my technique for keeping people in line if they were getting too personal when I don't want them to, or I think they are hurting me. Cutting and embarrassing them the hell out of them.

Like one time in a pub I was working in, a regular (alcho) customer who was a retired cop and a real smart arse, was sitting at his usual table with all of his old mates called me back to the table. He said he had something he wanted to show me. I said "What?" He started makin' out like he was undoin' his pants. I casually said as I turned and walked away, "Oh you men, you're always kiddin' yourselves thinkin' you've got a big one. I've never met a woman who couldn't always take just that little bit more!" and laughed at him and walked away. His mates went into hysterics and he was sooooo embarrassed. They talked about it for ages and he never smart-arsed me again.

So I guess some of us have found our ways to communicate and protect ourselves in many ways. I've come from the point of being too brutal with humour, and try now to be more considerate and respectful. Rosencrantz, you seem to have come from the opposite world of being 'too considerate'.

Anyway, there's a real brief summary on my communication history with strangers. That's one reason why I've never suffered never bein' invited to parties and stuff. My friends wouldn't dream of having a party without me cause they see me as good entertainment value.

But with my friends and family I'm different. I get brain-freeze and then can spend hours and days tryin' to work out the under-lyin' meanin's to what ever was said that disturbed me. I often can't think of quick or even slow come back or response. I get so caught up in tryin' to make sure I'm on the right ground first, that I often don't get to have my say at all.

And then for days and weeks I'm sayin' to myself, "Why didn't I say this, or that" and I think of the appropriate sometimes even brilliant  repsonse way too late  damn!!!

I have laways used humour to deflect attention, stop people from getting to close. The class clown, popular as hell, even with the teachers. I think nobody ever dreamed to check on me to see if I was alright, cause I was always crackin' jokes and happy and makin' people laugh.  

But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance. I'm sort of the poor man's Billy Connelly. I love that guy.  Hmmm, that'll do for now, I'm combing the recipe books to see what I'm gonna make for dinner on Satdy nite. Tossin' up on attemptin' the Chateaubriand that reads really easy to do in a totally cool 70's recipe book I got at an op-shop last week. I've cooked a couple of fantastic dishes out of it that surprised me how easy they were. The person who put this book together "Good Housekeeping Big Winter Cook-Book"" has made it all so fool-proof, so I'm game. But I think I'll buy the mustard hollandaise, I couldn't be bothered makin' that.

Thanks for letting me rave, oh yeah, ps, you know I can't be funny if I have to be. My husband had this gross habit of always telling people how funny I was, so they'd meet me and he'd say "Go on tell them about the time you did such and such." BALAAAAAAAH.

I couldn't make a funny if my life depended on it. I can't do it if I have to. A friend/business associate I had once asked to help out on some radio jingles. The guy wanted some humour in his radio ads. He thought I was the funniest person he'd ever met. (Probably 'cause he was always chasin' me round his office- building with a hard-on. Crackin' jokes was how I used to deflect him, it's pretty hard to keep a hard-on when you're laughin' your head off.) But I couldn't come up with one funny line in the meetings. Yet back in the car or at lunch with him they were flying out of my mouth like I was blowin' raspberries. I ended up sayin' to him, you'll just have to follw me around with a cassette player, and keep sexually harrassin' me, then we'll get these f**kin' ads done, and then I'm outta here. Aaaaaargh.

(((HIG)))
CG

Hey Portia, what syndrome do you reckon I have??? Has it got a name???
I thought maybe 'Jester Syndrome' sounds good.

[Portia]

hang on....I've got loads to catch up on here...got a bit way-laid   ...by the Stats thread...back soon..P

[rosencrantz]

Hi again Wildflower - I'm really sorry you are hurting!

bewildered by how you can’t see why I might have gotten so upset after all my attempts to explain myself,

Thanks for that - I hadn't seen that's what had been going on for you.  The answer is...convoluted!  The answer is because I believed I didn't say what you heard and so I was preoccupied with the fact you weren't able to hear what I really said rather than trying to deal with the hurt which had arisen in response to what you thought I'd said.  If I could have just made you hear what I really said, I believed you wouldn't be feeling hurt so 'obviously' (to me) the 'hurt' was an irrelevance! (Panic! I've got to make her hear me so she won't hurt and won't blame me for hurting her and my father won't blame me and I won't get into trouble!  And, anyway, I'm only 2 years old!!!)  

If you had said, "I was ignoring you...

I couldn't have said that cos that's not what I meant, it's not what I was talking about.

I simply couldn't deal with the idea that it was my fault

That's not what I was saying either.

People don't ignore me. And even if they do, how can you know why?

Again, that's not where I was 'coming from' or what I was saying. But I hear a lot of hurt in that sentence and wonder where the hurt is coming from.  And then my brain goes : But your mother did.  Your mother ignored you and that's where all this hurt comes from.

Your mother smothered you and didn’t give you a minute to have your own emotions or anything. I wondered if feeling ignored might be a welcome relief for you – not your worst fear and most powerful demon.

Yes, that's right.  I want to get on and do my work here and not be brought to the attention of the world by some idiot statistician!!!   I see you and Portia having suffered in a similar way to each other - different yet similar but the opposite of my experience.  

But what's the same for all of us is that whatever we 'got' in our childhood, we set up to 'get' in our lives here and now.  Even tho we hated our experience as a child and we didn't have an experience that was good for us, we INTERPRET things in the way we interpreted them back then.  And these are the bubbles worth bursting.  

I didn't 'ignore' you in those old posts after RG shut things down.  I was protecting my supporters from getting in the cross-fire between me and some other shitface. ( language! perlease!).  I intended to come back but felt I'd be bringing up negative stuff after it was, to all intents and purposes, all done and dusted.  I'd have been pedantic and a pain in the bum if I'd have done that.  I also hadn't realised what your pm meant but I was in far too bad a place to even begin to look after other people's feelings at that time.

But perhaps also there are conflicting values at play here in terms of being softly softly and being upfront.  Not sure.  
 
Try Eric Berne's Games People Play - it's a wonderful book.  It's decades old but still wonderful.  It isn't about 'bad' games, about manipulation or anything like that - it's about life 'scripts', how we set ourselves up.  In my initial reactions to how you experienced what I said, a page or so back, I, too, was still, as ever, acting out my own life script.  I couldn't 'hear' YOU because I was making too much noise myself    When I started to re-read it, I noticed something, I realised something.  I wasn't sure what exactly - just that I was a 'twit'!!!    And the bubble burst.   I'm free of creating some terrible scenario in my head and my heart that stops me from calmly 'righting' my world and handling whatever comes up.  
 
And yesterday - totally different circumstances, but same 'me'! - I calmly told someone (work-related) what they had just 'done' to me and what they had been doing to me for years, and I told them I wanted it to stop.  And I was only able to do that because of what happened here.  

And it was probably the most powerful statement I have ever made in my life.  

Because I'm not 2 years old any more.
R

[Portia]

Wow R, what did you say? (Sorry to butt in here) Can you say, or dress it up/down, change it if it’s personal?

And it was probably the most powerful statement I have ever made in my life.

Wow! P

PS. If we can get this thread to run to 13 pages....it'll be the longest thread on the whole board! Bwah ha ha ha ha ! And yes, dipso here paged through 10 pages to see that...I could've been working on loo roll, I know....

[rosencrantz]

Hi Portia - I'm not sure if it will 'translate' out of context. And the whole situation is far too convoluted to try to explain.  I received an email which made a statement that wasn't true but was taken for granted as true.  You know, like my mother and the 'you look depressed but you're making it up and anyway you're copying me' scenario.  Convoluted obfuscation which I find almost impossible to pull apart.  But I did!!!  I wrote a letter that cut through all the crap of the previous two years (like a hot knife through butter! Take it easy, CG!) and ends...

[Edited to protect the not so innocent!]

I realised just how abusive his attitude was towards me, how much he put me on the other side of the fence AND (more importantly) that I didn't belong there!!!!!   I also realised just how abusive some other people's behaviour was to me and that he had the power to do something about it and indeed SHOULD do something about it.  (My activity brings a LOT of money into his business.)

Just a short while ago, I'd be portraying this as a scenario from my childhood, not paying proper attention to it because it's just 'in my mind'.  Well, it isn't 'just in my mind', it's real, it's 'out there' and it's happening.  And 'just like my father', this guy should be doing something about it.  He has the power to change things, and I don't!  

So I may be speaking to my father but I'm also speaking to this guy.  Or vice versa.  This is the message I should have given my father when I was two years old (and 12 and 20!!!).  Made it, at last.  Before, I only felt shame that I was being abused!   (I can't believe I'm saying this!)

Throughout my life, God, fate or some part of me kept arranging for me to meet people like my mother so I could finally deal with 'her' and I just wasn't listening.  So finally I got my mother back again to deal with 'in the flesh'.  And still it took one more person here on this board some time ago before I could work it all out.  And now I've been sent my father to deal with through this work thing.  I've been marginally quicker this time round.  

Pop! The bubble burst.

And yes, you can tell me that mean thing about my father on whichever thread seems appropriate.  I'm sure it won't be a surprise!!!!!  
R

[rosencrantz]

But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance.

Hi CG - I woke up thinking about you this morning.  I was thinking that you won't get your work done until you share with us that other side of you, the frightened you, the one your mother ran rings round.  We met her once, I think, that side of you.

These thoughts I had this morning seemed to fit in with what I read in your post here today so I thought I'd share them.  

Forget the killer quips.  It'll never happen and it doesn't need to.  Why waster your precious energy?  You need to be freer of them than that.  And you deserve better. (Like me!)

One day, can we have CG 'in the round'???  Your strength is tremendous, amazing, wonderful.  Your humour - well, if you can't perform by numbers, what about becoming a sit com writer??!!!!    You do great warm cosy stuff, too.  How many other sides of you are there? Big, bold, sassy.  But where's the fragile, the nervous CG???  Does she want to come out to play, too?????  Or are you getting pulled in too many directions???

How you described your H putting you on display - felt just like my mother!  Were you a 'trophy wife' or something, there for the pumping up of ego-by-proxy???    And you said : I get so caught up in tryin' to make sure I'm on the right ground first! but one never can because the ground keeps shifting - they're faster than we are cos they set the ground rules so they can keep shifting the goal posts before we've even realised it - n'est-ce pas????
R

[Dawning]

Greetings    I will not be online for several days starting now but I noticed that post ,CG.  Thanks.  

<<Higs>> (meaning hugs??)
~Dawning

[Wildflower]

Hi R,

If I could have just made you hear what I really said, I believed you wouldn't be feeling hurt so 'obviously' (to me) the 'hurt' was an irrelevance!

Thanks for being honest about that, R.  In fact, until you put it that way, I hadn’t realized that that’s probably what I was reacting to (mom ignored me, invalidated my feelings by telling me they were not important or silly or wrong).  I musta picked up on that big time and reacted - big time.    My own script, I guess.  Hmmm.   Just discovered a new nerve.  Ah, you live and learn…. {EDIT: But I also see where you're coming from.  This is just my way of saying I popped a few bubbles during all this, too}

I also hadn't realised what your pm meant but I was in far too bad a place to even begin to look after other people's feelings at that time.

No problem at all.   I sensed you were in a tough place, and that’s why I wanted to remove any doubt in case you didn’t hear from me.  So no, I never expected you to be looking after me.  I was looking after you .

It looks like you’ve been doing quite a bit of work yourself over the week, too.  

And yesterday - totally different circumstances, but same 'me'! - I calmly told someone (work-related) what they had just 'done' to me and what they had been doing to me for years, and I told them I wanted it to stop. And I was only able to do that because of what happened here.

That must have felt so rewarding, R.  And positive.  To be able to feel a change like that.

Anyway, I’m off for the weekend, so have a great one.

Take care,
Wildflower

[Wildflower]

But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance.

I dunno, CG.  You may need a new set o' deflectors cos your humor (and kindness) kinda drew this puppy in. (Nah, I know what you mean.)

Hey Dawning,

The official-ish (Voicelessness) definition (for the moment) of a HIG is a hippo-pig.  Part warm, safe, floating CG, part...well...it seemed to make sense at the time .  But I'm sure you've already heard of 'em, cos  they're all over Japan.  And the east.  Not so many in NYC, though.  There's a pet store a few blocks away from me and when I asked them if that had any or would be getting any soon the guy was so rude to me and started denying that they existed.  Sheesh.  What an N.

But yeah, HIGs make for great HUGS.  And on that note...

(((((HIGS)))))
Wildflower