Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
healing
Wildflower:
Hi CG,
Hope you've got the coffee, the comfy spot, and the time 'cos this is a long one. :D (Take your time, though. :D I’m getting behind in work and home stuff, too. :oops: :roll: Gotta start showing a little more restraint here, too. This board is just too good sometimes - so hard to be disciplined :roll: :D.)
--- Quote ---It's a very important aspect of healthy development. Genuine and consistant praise. Otherwise they can begin to feel phoney, which is tragic. It can stay, as a monkey on their backs their whole lives. And make them resentful, and even blind to the necessary constructive criticisms that will invariably appear throughout life.
I've been practising new techniques with a little success. I'm reading and learning hahahahahahahah when I'm supposed to be working on these damn books.
--- End quote ---
Lately, I keep coming back to this one thought when it comes to parenting – especially when I think about you and the other mothers on the board. How much did we want our parents to finally understand, to finally love us unconditionally, to finally apologize? I mean, here we are as adults, some of us still wishing things could be better. Wishing we were wrong about our parents. I can imagine that you may not feel that way about your mother because she was so extreme. I dunno. But I hear how much you want to give to your children, and I hear you wanting to adjust and learn new parenting skills, and that makes me think your kids really are in loving, safe hands.
Children, and adults, are resilient. I feel that my life has been restored recently - that I really have found myself again. That just sounds like such a cheesy cliché, but it’s how I feel. I’m still a little messed up in some ways, but who isn’t?
But what I’m thinking now is that I’ve always been here, I was just hiding under layers and layers of protection. I’ve had to remove those layers myself, but how cool and wonderful would it have been to have my own parents ‘figure it out’ along the way and remove those layers for me while I was still dependent on them. What if they had worked to earn my trust again? Worked to build up my own faith in myself? Not in who they wanted me to be, but who I already was? What if they had decided to put their efforts into loving me – all of me – unconditionally? I would have healed, that's what. And think how much faster I could have healed if it had been my parents instead of therapists and books and patient but confused friends.
I guess what I’m thinking is that this damage doesn’t have to be permanent.
My therapist said things are easier/simpler for me now because I’m not protecting myself. In a way, I’m protecting myself by taking care of myself and getting out of bad situations. But I think what she was saying is that I’m no longer protecting my SELF by twisting into some sort of creature designed to survive a bad environment.
I’ve thought a bunch about consistency, too. I’ve tended to think that consistency is the basis of stability, and therefore safety. I guess if you’re consistently abusive, though, that’s still – abusive. Still, it's important to know that you can count on your parents to not go around putting reality in the blender every five minutes. :roll:
--- Quote ---Mother wants me to make her a cup of tea. She was a terribly the lazy bitch. Instead of saying, "Would you mind making me a cup of tea?" Giving me a choice, it would go more like this, "You're such a good girl, go and make me a cup tea, would you. Show mummy you love her, and that you're a such good daughter." or "You know what a good daughter would do, make their mummy a cup of tea. You want me to think you're a good daughter don't you?"
If I dared say "no" or "wait", she'd fly into some ungodly rage and tell me what a selfish little bitch I was, and then I'd hear afinancial report on how much I cost in food and shelter, and now, how could I be so cruel, I'd even caused her to get a headache, and she'd have to stay in bed all day.
--- End quote ---
I know you said you weren’t hung up on this, but I read this and got stuck on the “giving me a choice” part. My mother used to ask me questions that made me think she was giving me a choice, but she never was. It was always just a power game.
Mom: “I don’t feel like going out to get food tonight. Want to get a pizza? If you order, I’ll pay.”
Me: “Sure. What’s the number?” [If no, see "scrounge" option below]
Mom: “It’s in the phone book.”
Me: “Where’s the phone book?”
Mom: “Oh, it’s around. I’ll look for it in a minute."
At which point she’d just sit on the couch watching TV indefinitely. If I asked her about the phone book again, she’d accuse me of nagging and she’d lose interest in the pizza, and I’d have to “scrounge up something to eat.” So inevitably, I’d have to go on a phone book hunt, careful not to trip any of her “you’re interfering with my space” wires. :roll: It sounds like your mom was playing power games with you, too - on top of mixing in the compliments BS.
--- Quote ---But then there's the other side. "How do I look today, tell me how nice I look? What's wrong with you, why won't you tell me? Are you jealous? You're jealous aren't you. You can't stand having an attractive mother. Why you little cow. blaaah blaah blaah." Compliments and the need she had for them caused so much conflict, that I have a negative reaction to compliments. Quite understandable really.
--- End quote ---
I wondered about this the first time you mentioned that your mom was always fishing for compliments about her appearance. There’s just so much in there in terms of messed up messages. She needed your endless approval. She told you that you were jealous and thought all these bad things about your mom.
:idea: Geez. Again. I really think that by telling your child they hate you/don’t love you (blah blah blah), you’re really just protecting yourself from hearing it straight from them on the one hand, and on the other, you’re stuffing a big sock in their mouths when it comes to getting at their REAL feelings. The kid is forced to think, no, I don’t hate you because I’m a good kid. Or, I hate you and that makes me bad but I’d rather be bad than love you. Instead of, I hate you because you treat me really badly and I know it deep down inside.
Whew. Where’d that come from? :shock:
--- Quote ---Have you done anet search or read on the "Transcending Child"? It's me. I escaped the poverty cycle and in some ways, and by my childhood family's standards I've become quite successful.
--- End quote ---
I did a search but I didn’t come up with much. Is there an author who talks about this? I’ve just started reading Jung this week, by the way. :D And what are these books you’re reading about parenting? Anything you’d recommend?
Good luck with your book work miss higapigasaurauras. :D So glad to hear you’re happy and feeling good :D :D :D.
(((HIGS)))
Wildflower
Anonymous:
Hi Wildflower,
I just did a net check to make sure it works. hahahah
Search for a Lillian Rubin
You'll find articles on "The Man With The Beautiful Voice." That's her.
She's written a few books. But her most recent one being "The Transcendant Child."
www.salon.com/weekly/shrink also has articles on her which are an interesting read. One is titled "The Transcendant Shrink." It's well worth a read too.
(((HIGS))) and I'll be back later. I wanted to say something re- your post sparked a thought.
CG
Anonymous:
PS
Right, I just tried it and it looks like the page has been moved. Click on that option that'll take you to the salon, then in the search box, plug in Lillian Rubin. You'll see all the articles by/about her.
Fingers crossed that it works for you. :D
CG
Anonymous:
Hi Wildflower,
I'm following your lead and getting out more. All this discussion and feedback. Takin' it for a test drive, so to speak, with some interesting results.
--- Quote ---My therapist said things are easier/simpler for me now because I’m not protecting myself. In a way, I’m protecting myself by taking care of myself and getting out of bad situations. But I think what she was saying is that I’m no longer protecting my SELF by twisting into some sort of creature designed to survive a bad environment.
--- End quote ---
Long story about an unpleasant conversation I had yesterday with a friend. I came home and stewed, vented even to my husband and then to a mutual friend. This actaully is new for me cause I've had this 'thing' my whole life about NOT talkin' about people behind their back's. I could never do it. And if I did I would be so guilty I would go and tell them and apologise. It's been a real biggee for me to get over. It made me a very reliable friend, people know I don't gossip generally, I just say nothing or absent myself. Sometimes it's not healthy, well it wasn't in me anyway, it was too strong a principle rooted in fear and ignorance. They're always scarey and dangerous, those types of principles. And a legacy of guess who? Remember the orphanage story, cause I talked about her once to someone blaah blaaah.
So I don't do it, talk about people to others at all usually, which I've recently learned, has often been to my own detriment at times. Sometimes we have to. Especially if someone has hurt us, and we don't know why. This friend hurt me, in front of 2 other friends. I couldn't work out if she realised she had, had done it on purpose, or why? I fumed some more. Was getting nowhere. Then in bed I tossed and turned it over and around and upside down and came to some really spoooooky different conclusions than I first had. I tested some theories, by speaking about it with one of our mutual friend's who was there, and freedom came. No more torment or pain or second-guessing myself. And I got out of a bad situation by dealing with it, clumsily no doubt, but straight away. That was the key. I did it pretty much straight away. I got someone elses garbage dumped on me, and it took me only about 24 hous to get rid of it all. That may seem slow for some, but for me it was an excellent result.
--- Quote ---Still, it's important to know that you can count on your parents to not go around putting reality in the blender every five minutes. :roll:
--- End quote ---
I like this comment. I'm gonna keep it, guess where?? Come on, you know you know??? On the FRIDGE!!!!
--- Quote ---I know you said you weren’t hung up on this, but I read this and got stuck on the “giving me a choice” part. My mother used to ask me questions that made me think she was giving me a choice, but she never was. It was always just a power game.
Mom: “I don’t feel like going out to get food tonight. Want to get a pizza? If you order, I’ll pay.”
Me: “Sure. What’s the number?” [If no, see "scrounge" option below]
Mom: “It’s in the phone book.”
Me: “Where’s the phone book?”
Mom: “Oh, it’s around. I’ll look for it in a minute."
At which point she’d just sit on the couch watching TV indefinitely. If I asked her about the phone book again, she’d accuse me of nagging and she’d lose interest in the pizza, and I’d have to “scrounge up something to eat.” So inevitably, I’d have to go on a phone book hunt, careful not to trip any of her “you’re interfering with my space” wires. :roll:
--- End quote ---
This sounds so, so, so ,so, so, I don't know??????? :( :( :( :( :(
I do, I get the picture so clearly, but my words aren't there yet. I know though, eactly what she was doing. It's like a commitment-phobic almost :? :? :? but almost, but I know the type. And it is a type. It'll come to me. I just need a bit more time, and it's annoying the crap outta me cause I've had friends just like this with their kids. :x :x :x :x :x
--- Quote ---
:idea: Geez. Again. I really think that by telling your child they hate you/don’t love you (blah blah blah), you’re really just protecting yourself from hearing it straight from them on the one hand, and on the other, you’re stuffing a big sock in their mouths when it comes to getting at their REAL feelings. The kid is forced to think, no, I don’t hate you because I’m a good kid. Or, I hate you and that makes me bad but I’d rather be bad than love you. Instead of, I hate you because you treat me really badly and I know it deep down inside.
--- End quote ---
Thinking back now, I don't think I consciously 'THOUGHT" things like love or hate words in my head about her. Maybe momentarily, occassionally. But I tend to think now that I wouldn't have been game. I remember she had me convinced she had eye's in the back of her head, she could see around corners, and that she could read minds. I felt a whole lot of fear if I thought negative things about her.
And I 'THINK' all those words which I was never game to think, just connected to my 'feelings' side. So I was very emotional and feeling and happy and smiling and funny, which meant also that I didn't draw attention to her foul parenting and I was safer behind this facade. I was safe, when she couldn't read my hatred, resentment, contempt and disgest at/with her. I really think my 'voice' didn't even make it to the thinking stage of my brain as a child. I don't know if I was ever game to think about her, and besides I was completely tuned in to survival.
I'll come back to you on the image of your mother if you don't mind. I'm gonna give it some more thought. I've found speaking to you here very helpful. I realised a few new things as I was writing. Thankyou.
from a genuinely happy higapigasauraurus
(((HIGS)))
CG
Wildflower:
Hi miss genuinely happy higapigasauraurus :D
Have you ever heard of Nick Drake, a musician from the 60's? I just saw a documentary of his life last night. Very interesting stuff about depression and therapy in the UK.
I'm on my way out to dance class, but I'll be back to talk more about Nick and your post...
(((HIGS))) from a pondering wildflower,
Wildflower
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