Separating healthy and unhealthy motives (when it comes to talent)?

[Bella_French]

I don't know if anyone can relate, but have any of you ever gone through a  struggle to separate your love and passion for something (like playing an instrument, art, or another talent you might possess) from your desire to be praised and loved for it?

I've been feeling a bit down about this very thing lately. I almost feel angry at myself too, because I feel i should know better. And yet I am tied up in knots because I just went out bought a bunch of new music equipment to complete my home recording studio. I've been meaning to really focus on developing my skills in music production for a while, but its only lately that I've been in a good position to dedicate myself to it. And yet now that I'm `confronted' with the possibility, I feel very afraid and nervous, when I should be so happy!

Having read books like the `artist's way', I'm pretty sure that the root of these feelings is due to the stress of associating my hobbies with my self esteem, even my lovability as a person.   

How does one overcome this? I really don't know where to start. All I know is that somewhere deep inside me is a healthy love for self-expression, something that I've had since I was a child, that led to me being regarded as very talented by others. But somewhere along the way, it became more; it became my only source of love and goodwill from my mother. Now when I even think of painting a picture, or composing a song, I feel nothing but stress. I feel that every note and every brush stoke has to be perfect, and if it isn't then I am not worth anything at all.

I really want to change this, but I'm a bit lost. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

X

[Ami]

Dear Bella French,
   You might get more responses if you post this in the first area  that is listed.
   I think that you are talking about defining yourself from outside sources. I am trying to build a self that is "mine". I want to define my dignity,values, and parameters.I have so many "bad" messages in my head from an N mother . They say that I have to be perfect down to every single thought or else I am worthless.
I am trying to "evict"her from my head. I feel that I am doing this. First, I am facing the truth about how it was with her. Then I am facing the damage inside of me from her. Now, I am just getting to "Who am I really?
   I have not known the answer to this since I was 14. However, I am rediscovering who it was that I was before I had to twist and turn in order to please her.
    I play the piano and guitar and stopped for a long time for many reasons. Now, when I start again, I want to use it to nurture myself. I need it and it sounds like you do too.
    Keep writing and sharing. You will find much wisdom here. Hugs to You   Ami
     

[Bella_French]

Hugs back to you Ami! Its sounds like your mother was so overbearing! To invade a person right down to their very thoughts is so cruel. You are doing so well to have such self awareness and a desire to heal from that!

Its funny that you mentioned 14 as the time where you felt that you lost your connection to your own identity. I think it was around then for me too...maybe a bit earlier? But I do remember that 14 was the year that all my goals changed. I stopped studying art and music at school, to pursue more `esteemed' courses (in my mother's eyes). And my career goals became impossibly grand. I think I pretty much stopped enjoying my life, and I only lived for achieving accomplishments which my mother recognised. I wonder why it was 14 for both of us?

I think what I'm looking for right now are some solid steps to take which will faciliate my ability to perform (on my own terms, for my own reasons). I know that in the end, I  have to take action, like practicing and doing these things again. But right now my heart is not in it. I feel so much stress thinking about it.

I will start with trying to do what you suggested- like trying to better define my own values and parameters. I feel so disconnected from that; perhaps that means its a good place to start?

X thanks for your post!!

[Bella_French]

Hi CB123! Thanks for putting some thought into this problem for me-it has really helped. I am already getting so much out of reading your posts! Between you, Ami, and Stormchild, I'm sure you could cure world insanity, if giving the power to do so. LOL. I actually believe that. Your way of seeing the world is so refreshingly deep and insightful.

Anyway, I had a bit of a breakthrough this morning. I don't know why it came now, and not earlier. I think it has something to do wth reading Richards essays, and then finding this forum. Something `shifted' for me and I am actually feeling excited!! I can't believe I feel this way again. Its been so long.

I know it sounds dumb in hindsight, but I think my main problem has been that I've been trying to create music in the wrong context. See, I was trained as a film maker and when I discovered that medium, I knew I had discovered the right medium for self expression for me. Its abstract, and yet also succinct. It can be anything you want it to be. The mix of music, vision, and story really gells with me; its not too abstract, and its not as direct as writing an essay or story. I didn't create my little films to win praise, but the combination of mediums came naturally to me and I was productive. I won awards for my work. It was embarrassing, but also a good feeling to know that my assessment of my work was supported by others.

I don't know why I pulled out `music' as the aspect of film making to focus apon. Maybe because the technology for producing music is more accessable?. I'm sure there are some other daft reasons behind this decision. But anyway, it hasn't worked for me. I seem much more motivated when I create music for vision, and vision for music. For some reason I need to be working with both, in symbiosis.

*SLAPS FORE-HEAD* Why couldn't I see this before?

PS. I am loving this forum:)



 

[CB123]

I seem much more motivated when I create music for vision, and vision for music. For some reason I need to be working with both, in symbiosis.

Oh, I can see that, Bella.  That makes perfect sense. 

So, how are you going to solve your problem?  Do you have an idea for a film project so you have context for your music? 

CB

P.S. Welcome--I love the forum, too!

[Bella_French]

Its weird CB; I woke up with the flu today and yet I seem to be full of inspiration for a change. I mean its a *big* change. I love moments like this. i hope i can make it last!

I'm terrible with biting off more than I can chew and blurring self expression and perfectionism. But something I did discover in film school is that a 5-8 minute piece is achievable for me. The longest piece I ever made was a highly sylised 25 minute documentary, but I completed it in little related blocks and wove them together. Its not how your supposed to do it; you're supposed to plan every detail in advance.  But its the only way I can work, and, well, people said they were blown away when they saw it. It really did look `woven'-the editing, the music, the images, the theme. Thats the piece that won me so many awards, and I sold it to two Australian TV stations who approached me.

I wound up making music video clips for a living for a while, because its the same process, really. But I wasn't allowed any creative freedom by bands; it was usually an agonising job where my every move was controlled by some critical narcissist band leader. I stopped liking the results, or liking the job.

I am wondering if journalling in the mornings will help me? Thats what Jane Cameron from the artists way suggested. I should buy that book again-its been so long since I read it.

Did you find journalling helpful CB? Also, what is your artistic outlet? I'd love to hear more about your work too. How are you going with everything?

[Bella_French]

Oh CB-that is such a lot to deal with at once, for anyone, at any age. You are an amazing person and an incredible multi-tasker, if I may say so. I hope you see this too:)

I find it hard, if not impossible, to be creative when I'm dealing with survival/home type needs (which I think you are dealing with right now). The sort of healthy (non-narcisistic) creativity I've been struggling towards seems more about self actualisation, in the heirachy of needs (if you agree with maslow). Its just so hard to get to a place in life where your foundations are solid enough. I've only just got here in last few years, although I worry about the foundatons slipping away again. Stability has been rare in my life.

 And CB I struggle all the time with feeling that I've `missed my boat'. My youth is all but over, and this is a scarey place to be for the first time. But when I read posts from other adult survivors of N's, I am overcome with how much this group of people have to offer the world in the form of wisdom and many other talents. Perhaps its just the way of things: That the time in life we can offer the best of ourselves will be later in life. Wouldn't it be such a shame to give up in our prime, just because our bodies are a little older? How sad that would be. N's rob us of so much already.

I love hearing about your studies. Are your history and anthropology teachers good, do you think? I love those subjects too (I personally beleive that istory is the most important subject of all, and it too rarely used as a learning tool, especially by politicians)

Anyway i hope your night goes ok and that you sleep well CB. Thanks for the chat today! I've been enkjoying getting to know you.

[JanetLG]

Bella, CB, Ami,

I have just read this thread and it resonates so much with me.

I read the Artist's Way about five years ago, as I was getting stuck in my creative ideas (for embroidery - my business), due to NMum pressures (NC for 8 years by then from me, but occasional 'pushes' from them, which upset me no end!

I found that the 3 pages of journal writing that Julia Cameron recommends doing in her book were really beneficial for me. At first, I found that the 'write whatever you want' idea only brought out written nagging, which surprised me. I seemed to be moaning to myself about how I spent my day, how I dealt with my husband, how I always felt ill...no answers, just moaning! But gradually, it seemed that that calmed down, and solutioms started to present themselves, and things gradually changed for the better. It's a strange process. You don't feel that writing it down can help at all, but, as with this forum, writing helps an awful lot!

Bella, I don't think that being 'a bit older' should be a barrier to achieving anything at all. In fact, people with a bit of life experience are able to choose better, once they know what to avoid, and what to go after.  I left school at sixteen, as I hated it. When I was 24, I mentioned to my Nmum and Nsister that I was thinking of doing an Open University degree - and their response was 'Oooh, no, you don't want to do that - no man would want you if you were more qualified than them!' (i.e. 'don't get more educated than WE are!'). So I left it for 8 years. But when I had the nerve to start a degree course, I ended up with a First Class Honours Degree, and oodles more self confidence. OK, it took seven years (it was distance learning), but I learnt so much more about myself than just what the course materials taught me.

I can understand the conflict between trying to be 'creative' for yourself, and the self-inflicted standard of perfection that we impose on ourselves. Wouldn't it be great if we could get back to the way small kids think, when they draw a picture and hold it up so proudly and say 'Look what I'VE done!'

Whatever happened to OUR confidence? Oh, I remember, it was stolen.

Perhaps we need to start an N survivors creative support group of some kind. This forum seems to be full of people who are incredibly talented in all sorts of ways.

Bella, have you thought that your flu might be a healing crisis, and it's your body's way of telling you that you've started to tackle this? Just a thought.

Janet

[JanetLG]

CB,
I don't know about you, but I felt so GUILTY, to start writing and find that all I wrote about was whinging, negative stuff! It was a strange feeling to gradually get over that, and start to write positive things, like what I might do during the day, or pleasant things that had happened the day before...just small things that I started to notice, that weren't huge really, but just more positive than ' the postman's late AGAIN' - you know, stupid stuff, just to get the three pages written!


My Open University Degree ended up being a very focussed one in Social Science, but it started off with me just wanting to prove (to my family, I suppose) that I could finish the Foundation year! I covered women's studies, criminology, State policies towards the homeless, the elderly, youth, and things like how personal possessions shape the way people see themselves (i.e branding of clothing, etc.). It was really interesting, and made me a very politically aware person, which I wasn't before, at all!

The self-confidence thing was very pronounced in our tutor group - within about two years of starting the degree, about a third of the women (not so much the men - wonder why...?) had begun new relationships, changed jobs, etc.

Funny thing, but I never (because I'd started NC with my NMum by then)  told my Mum that I'd finished my Degree, but by the time I graduated, what she thought of me didn't matter any more. My graduation photo is huge, and is on my dresser in the living room! And she'll never see it!

The Artist's Way is a great book. The only bit I had trouble with was the week of assignments when she said 'Right, this week, NO TV!!' I was used to watching about 4 hours a night, then (don't own a TV now - weaned myself off it   )  It was amazing how much I got done during the week I HAD to find other things to do. I read somewhere that the TV is where your spare time goes to die...

For creative people who are unsure of themselves, it's a great excuse not to get anything done, I think.

Bella, you said in your post that N's have robbed us of so much already. That is so true. If I'd listened to my NMum, I'd never have done my degree, never have kept going with my embroidery, never done anything that is better than SHE has achieved (well, that rules out most things, then). I think that many women think things over in their 30's/ 40's, because we come to a natural pause in our lives. We've got time to look at what we're doing, and go off in a new direction. But it's not the end, it's a new beginning.  But it is a bit scary.

Janet

[Bella_French]

Thanks so much for your posts Janet. I loved reading them and I found them both very affirming too! I also think it is a great idea to start a support group for `recovering artists'. It would be nice to focus on something so positive and constructive, with others who share a common background and understanding, don't you think?. We might have to put this on the `to do' list, huh?

I think I'll buy `the artists way' again on the weekend. I remember that a lot of it resonated with me, and it triggered a lot of thought about my motivations generally. I still wonder if choosing a Narcissistic partner was a convoluded way of avoiding creativite development (as the author suggests). What an interesting way of looking at things. I suspect its a little more complex that that, but she's so insghtful and I respect her immensely  as an author.

Oh Janet, did you really give up TV? LOL, I have got it down to 1/2 hour a day as a form of relaxation with my partner (I watch DVD's, not TV-I can't watch commercials, lol). I don't use my time as well as I should. In fact i am quite certain that if i was the start journalling, its going to sound just like you described- a lot of whining about my poor use of time, lol:)

I might try writing out some plans and lists too. If I see a pattern in the items on my list that I avoid, that might be agood flag for identifying where I'm undermining myself.

ooh..I just love these kinds o conversatons. They are s positve. Thanks so much!

[Hopalong]

Hey CB...

Did you know that Goddard College has an excellent online MA writing program?

Not to torture you, but boy could I see you doing it...

 
Hops

[Bella_French]

Bella, when you do your free write, don't make lists or plans.  That's the wrong side of the brain (or at least the wrong side for creative thought).  Just write.  No plans, no lists, no agenda.  You'll be surprised at what comes out.

Love
CB

Oh thanks so much for reinforcing that CB! I was all prepared to be totally logical and `right side of the brain' about this, lol. Thanks for reminding me  Not to do that!!

love to you too, CB!