Mammaw

[Sela]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((MS))))))))))))))))))))))

I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Sela

[mountainspring]

Thank you Sela.... still have your mother in law in my prayers too.

[mountainspring]

So in a good and healthy world these issues wouldn’t come up.  If my Dad were emotionally healthy and enjoying his life, he would eat right.  But when dealing with adults what is the healthy way to respond?  Usually my Dad and I banter around making jokes, or if I’m lucky, he’ll start discussing history and religion and we’ll talk about that.  But the serious things are always communicated in silence.  They always have been.  As a child, if he saw I was mistreated, he wouldn’t take any action, but very shortly afterwards he’d slip me a dollar, or some candy, or give me a ride to the mall to hang out.  He never asked many questions.  He just wanted peace. 

So if this is a situation where I am being triangulated what is the appropriate response.  What’s the healthy response to triangulation.  And when dealing with triangulation, is there always a target.  It seems there is, but I have trouble picturing my dad making me a target.  I think he doesn’t want to deal with my mom, so he lets it go, and I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut.   So maybe it’s something else?

And when an adult says to you, don’t tell,  but you know what he’s doing is bad for him, do you let it go because he’s an adult and in charge of his own life?  He’s told me on more than one occasion he wants to be left alone about his eating choices.  So to make an issue would be crossing a boundary?  Dad wants ice cream so go get ice cream, even tho I don’t want to?  Maybe he’s crossing a boundary with me by asking this of me.  I’m not sure. 

And I’m leaving early next week to help with the rehab.  And I want to go very badly.  But I resent the things my mother is saying.  “If anyone can get Mammaw out of bed you can”.  I’m sure after you work with her she’ll be healthy enough to go back to assisted living.  You have a way with Mammaw, she’ll do what you tell her.  And sometimes she will and sometimes she won’t.  That’s not the point really.  I resent the expectation.  I hate the pressure.  I can’t do anymore than anyone else could.  I want her to get better desparately, but I have no magic powers.  My mom’s  words feel like manipulation to me.  They don’t feel right and I resent them.  I wish my best was good enough no matter what.  The whole situation leaves me feeling very lonely.

Sorry for the rant.  I feel better now having written it all out.
MS

[Ami]

Dear MS,
   I am so sorry for all the stress and uncertainty that you are going through.You may not feel this way ,but I am so impressed how you are handling everyone and everything.
   One thing that struck me was the "patterns" between your parents.
    Yesterday, I 'saw" that the lies in my family were a huge brick wall. I always felt like a failure because I could not make it O.K. .Now, i see that it is inpenetratable. I see how impotent I was and how silly it was for me to bear any responsibility for taking them down or fixing them in any way.
  I truly had a lifelong depression because I failed at making my family O.K.
  What I see with your parents is that you cannot change the life long patterns. I am not saying that you are trying to. However, I think that there is something in us that wants to jump in and make it better. You can't make it better.Maybe, remembering this will take off some pressure.
  As far as the ice cream, I would follow my "gut". I think if it were me, I  would get the ice cream. If something as small as this makes him happy, I would do it. However, if it feels like a manipulation to get you in the middle, then I would not.
    You have much more courage than I do to face all this and to try to help your grandmother.  I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Love Ami

[mountainspring]

Hi Ami,

It's not so much that I'm trying to break old patterns.  I'm trying to identify them and I'm trying to form a picture in my mind of what emotional health looks like.  I think these things that are so familiar to me sometimes seem normal, and in reading I discover they aren't normal, and I'd like to be able to identify these things as they're happening so I know if my responses are healthy or not.  On the other side of the coin though is the analyzing that isn't good if things are analyzed too much.  I think I'm searching for what a healthy environment looks like and feels like, and when I have that picture in my mind I can practice it.  As long as I'm unsure about my own reactions to things I seem to get stuck.  I guess it's just part of the path.  Another thing is when I find out another reaction is healthier that's a process too.  I think things that come naturally to those who grew up in a safe home feel foreign somehow.  And I want the healthy to feel normal and the old patterns to be the foreign things.  Am I making sense?

[pennyplant]

Hi MS,

I know there's lots going on with you and I'm picking only one thing to respond to, but I had a similar incident with my father and maybe my info can help you sort out that one thing.

And when an adult says to you, don’t tell,  but you know what he’s doing is bad for him, do you let it go because he’s an adult and in charge of his own life?  He’s told me on more than one occasion he wants to be left alone about his eating choices.  So to make an issue would be crossing a boundary?  Dad wants ice cream so go get ice cream, even tho I don’t want to?  Maybe he’s crossing a boundary with me by asking this of me.  I’m not sure.

My father's bad thing that he involved me with was cigarettes.  One of the many times he tried to quit, before he actually did, he had let himself almost run out.  Then he called me frantically and said he was afraid that when he did run out of cigarettes that he might "freak out".  So, would I go get him just one pack and bring it out and he'd pay me when I got there.  And I agreed.  Now, I had bought him cigarettes many times in the past even knowing how bad they were for him (he had emphysema from about the age of  40 onwards--that is eventually what killed him).  But this time I became angry about it.  I got in the car and steamed about it the whole time I was driving, buying the cigarettes, and then driving out to his place to deliver them.  And in that time I realized I was angry about how he manipulated me into getting the pack for him.  He might freak out, he didn't know what would happen, what he would do, only I could save him from this terrible whatever.  He said what he thought he had to say in order to get me to do what he required of me. 

So, when I got there, I had my response all ready.  I had my limit, my boundary set, and I was ready, finally, to lay it on the line and mean it.  I told him I would never buy him another pack of cigarettes again, for obvious reasons, and it was his responsibility from now on to get them for himself or not.  I hadn't liked being placed in that position by him and would never allow that again.  To my surprise, he accepted my boundary and respected it from that moment forward.  Of course, he was not N.  Nor even N supply any longer by that point in life.  Maybe your Dad would respect whatever boundary you want to establish, maybe it would be messy.  But I'm thinking that this ice cream situation is indeed a boundary violation.  He is a grown-up and free to eat poorly if he so chooses.  That may actually be a part of his particular journey through this life.  But you are also free not to cooperate with him if you so choose.

I hope this helps in some way with part of what's happening these days.  It's a lot right now.  Still in my prayers, MS.

Pennyplant

[lighter]

Mountainspring:

RE: your father.  I think normal people would look for low fat low sugar low cal frozen desserts that your father could subsitute for less healthy alternatives, and feel good about that.  Seems loving and thoughtful to me.  There's all types of products out now.   

As far as your mother goes, you aren't obligated to keep secrets from her on your father's behalf.   You shouldn't be put in that position.

Treat them the way you want to be treated and try to rise above the craziness they create.  It's not yours to own.  It's theirs. 

[Ami]

Dear MS,
  I don't know if this will be helpful but what struck me in the last post (to me) was that you are striving 'too Hard" for normal. I know that my family has sick patterns and I am seeing this. However, in my gut is a barometer that will lead me right(IMO). I believe that we all have this inside as an endowment from God.
  I am reading Frederick Douglass's book now. He "knew" that God did not make some men to be slaves.He got a strength from a "knower" inside himself.
  What I am saying is that I believe that there is a 'knowing" in you that will lead you right. There is probably not a "normal" anywhere. However,there would be a healthy. Healthy to me would be respecting yourself and your inner core. If something seems wring to you,don't do it. If it seems right- do it.
 This insight struck me as one that could be helpful to you. I found that  therapy got me "looking at my navel" too much. It took me a long time and still I am not over the overanaylsing a situation.I think that one of the big reasons that I lost connection to my core was too much therapy and then getting a Master's degree in it.(This is just my opinion)
  However, whether or not you agree with this viewpoint or not, my essential point is to try to trust yourself,.If you make a mistake, that is what "forgiveness" is for.For me, the Bible provides for repentance so that if I "screw up:", a way has already been provided. It is like an eraser on a pencil
   I hope that I offered something of value to you. I could see you "in the forest(IMO)  and wanted to provide a tree or two.                         Love and Hugs    Ami

[mountainspring]

Hi Pennyplant..

The situation with my Dad wouldn’t get messy.  He’s very kind, he wouldn’t start yelling or quit talking to me or anything.  I could tell him don’t ask me to buy you sweets and don’t tell me not to tell mom etc.  and he would stop.  It’s really not him I’m afraid of so much.  It’s my own feelings.  Those old messages that I know in my head are BS but I still feel them when I speak up.  The how could you say that to your father, and how do you think that will make him feel.  Yucky childhood stuff that I know is nonsense but don’t feel it yet and won’t feel it until I have the courage to take the action I need to take.  I think I may take that action this trip, or may not.  I’m not sure what I’m going to find when working with Mammaw and if I start getting overwhelmed with her maybe this issue will have to wait for my next trip.  And I wouldn’t tell my mom anyway,  I tell her very little about anything and I’m sure she knows. I’m leaving tomorrow.  Thank you for your prayers.

 Lighter…..There are many alternatives and he knows about them.  His eating habits are something he refuses to change.  I wonder if it’s the last thing he feels in control of and just refuses to let it go.  My mother has controlled so much for so long.  I remember him telling Mammaw years ago Look, I don’t smoke, I don’t drink, I love my sweets just like you do, leave me alone on this issue. 

Ami… you have me pegged on the ‘normal’ thing.  I strive for what I believe is normal.  Some of it has to do with my emotions being all over the place at times and others don’t seem to struggle with that as much.   But I’m working to trust my gut more and follow my gut more by practicing the things I know to be common sense but don’t always feel.  My head doesn’t always agree with my heart.  I can relate to a lot of your posts on finding yourself.   I remember a time when I felt panic just writing a post… but I’ve made progress on that this year by hitting that send button (probably more than I should!) 

I’ll be off line for at least 2 weeks.  Mammaw’s rehab center is right behind the assisted living facility.  I’ll stay with her at rehab during the day and spend the night in her room at assisted living.  She has to  be able to get from her room to the front door in 2 minutes to keep her room at assisted living.  She can do that by walker or wheelchair, but she has to do it or she’ll have to be moved.   From what mom has said, right now she’s sleeping most of the time and not eating that well.  PT at rehab starts Monday.  Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers (and me too)

And another thing I just remembered.  The nurse that took her pulse after her surgery last week said that dynamite comes in small packages.  She was referring how small Mammaw is and what a strong pulse she had.  There’s lots of hope that she’ll be back in her assisted living room soon!

[pennyplant]

mountainspring,

I think you're doing better than you think!  It probably looks different to you, being in the middle of it, than it looks to us being somewhat on the outside.  You seem to be making lots of progress and growing and learning.

All my best to you with Mammaw and the re-hab situation.

Love, Pennyplant