Understanding Mom

[mountainspring]

I’m writing this because I’m trying to figure out the things that happened while I was at my parents house.  I’m hoping you’ll stay with me during my post.  I really want to understand.  I’ll start with the care plan meeting, because it was after that that I stayed at my parents.  Thanks for listening.

My cousin came in to help us with the care plan meeting for Mammaw.  We had talked to him several days before about things we weren’t happy with at the rehab center.  When we discussed these things with him, he agreed that there were problems with Mammaw’s care and said we should write out each problem and our proposed solution to the problem before the meeting with the personnel at rehab.  I typed the problems I saw and thought about solutions, decided what the best resolution was and typed those as the proposed resolution.

The meeting went well the changes we suggested were made.  And I started thinking about how smart my cousins suggestion had been.  I have a problem controlling my panic and emotions.  I know it started it childhood and I know my answers are there somewhere.  My current problem has been that at times I am triggered and I don’t know what triggered me, and sometimes I just feel overwhelming grief and I have trouble understanding and controlling that.  I had stayed at the assisted living place at night a few days the first week, but after this meeting I decided I would stay at night with my parents.  I thought I had several good reasons for doing this.  One was my Dad just didn’t look well this trip.  My Dad and I have joked in the past about how he’s sick but he’s not REALLY sick.  He has liver cirrohsis and diabetes, but his only symptoms were occasional stomach bleeds and being more tired than usual.  He never seemed like anything was major wrong.  But this visit he would wake up sick and he said he wasn’t feeling good more often.  I wanted to keep an eye on him.  And I wanted to see what would happen if I was around my mother more.  Maybe I wouldn’t be triggered as much, and if I was triggered, I planned to email myself about what happened .  If too much happens my brain starts fogging up, but emails would help me stay clear.  I remember the big stuff from childhood, the beatings for breathing wrong etc.  but I don’t remember the day to day stuff so much.  I remember feeling panicked and very emotional most of the time.  And  I thought by observing and writing the emails that I could come up with some answers.  Maybe my cousins idea would work for my own issues.

There was so much that happened.  I was thinking on the plane that I wished that someone from the board had been with me.  Someone to witness what had happened.  I started questioning whether my mom was an N or maybe it’s something else that drives her.  And today I thought well, I have the emails, maybe I could start a thread and describe what went on a little at a time, and see what some of you thought was happening.  So this is why I’m posting.   I’d like another view besides my own.  Some times other views help me see other possibilities.  Maybe I’m missing something.

The Saturday before Fathers Day I went to rehab and spent several hours with Mammaw.  My mother had been on me the previous week to spend some time with her.  She told me the night before that we should go shopping for Dad for Father’s Day.  I agreed to go.  I needed to go anyway to get him something, and maybe she’d calm if I spent some time with her.  We stopped at Peebles to see my Dad (he worked there part time).  I noticed that he was really tired and he said he didn’t want to go to church the next day.  Mom said she would pick him up later that night because he looked to tired to drive.  We went out to the mall and I picked up some presents for him and came home that evening.  When we came in the phone was ringing.  It was his boss.  Mom picked it up and I heard her tell them to take him to the local hospital.  We got in the car and she started telling me what they said.  He was confused, couldn’t log on to the register, became disoriented, didn’t know his coworkers etc.  So we get to the hospital and Mom goes to the desk and tells them Dad is coming by ambulance.  The guy starts keying in the information and he asks her what’s wrong with him.  She says he’s collapsed.  That’s the first trigger I felt.  I felt anger and rage.  I quickly explain that Dad has liver disease and that he’s being brought in for confusion and disorientation.  I don’t believe for a second that he collapsed because I asked her what she was told on the phone and she told me in the car and I know her well enough to know she wouldn’t have left that detail out.   They don’t let us go in the room for about 30 minutes.  When we get in there he’s got his eyes closed and he’s rubbing his head and he won’t keep his arms down to his side.  He keeps lifting them up near his head, and I keep placing them down to his side because it messes up his IV’s.  I kept saying Dad, Dad, and when I would he would open his eyes and look at me.  And mom kept saying he’s unresponsive, he doesn’t know us, and I started feeling the anger again.  He’s very very tired, but each time I say Dad he opens his eyes.  He’s responding.  And I’m thinking why is she trying to make the situation worse than it is.  I acknowledge it’s bad, but it seems to me she’s trying to make it worse.   Then she keeps asking me if he looks yellow.  She’s asked me this all week.  All week I’ve told her no.  He doesn’t look yellow to me.  My father has an olive complexion.  He still has an olive complexion.  But she’s read that people with liver disease get jaundiced, and she won’t let the question go.

Before I go on I need to tell you a few other things I observed about my mother this trip. She seemed to be more aware.  It seemed like she was working on her issues.  Her bookshelf was filled with self help books…. Kids who Carry Our Pain, False Intimacy,  Pain and Pretending, and many other books.  I don’t know if she’s read them, but they were on the bookshelf.  Another thing I noticed was that she was reading her Bible a lot.  My Dad was a pastor, so you may think well she’s a pastors wife of course she reads her Bible.  But that wasn’t how it was in our house.  She didn’t read it when I was growing up.  I asked her if I could see her Bible and she said sure and I looked through it.  I could tell she had been at it for a while.  She had notes in it, things underlined etc.  And one of the notes said Lord, help me to see myself as I am and help me to be more like you.  And I’m thinking to myself maybe I’ve been wrong, maybe she’s not an N.  N’s don’t self reflect.  She seems to be self reflecting.  What’s up with mom?  And another thing, she was very kind to me this trip.  She was always wanting to eat with me, she came to rehab several times, told me she was very glad I was there etc etc.   She took a couple potshots at me, but mostly she was very kind… to me.  But there were times she was outright mean to my Dad and it made my blood boil.   My Dad is very kind to her.  I don’t understand what was happening.  Maybe she did to me as a child what was done to her.  Maybe he’s her new target.  I don’t know.  She tries to control his every move. I would make suggestions to her and she seemed to try and follow them.  I told her everybody deals with things differently and to let him deal with his sickness his own way.  She seemed to try and take my advice, but it was like it took everything she had to leave him alone.

There’s much more I’d like to say but am afraid to go on now because I don’t want my post to be so long that nobody reads it.  I really would like to know your viewpoints as to what was happening.  Maybe you will see something I haven't.  I want to understand. So I’ll stop here and write more tomorrow.

Thanks for reading.

[Ami]

Dear MS,
   I will read every word ,so just keep writing. If I need more time to  reflect and come back ,I will.
   A few things struck me. One is that your doubt that if your Mom has self help books and reads the Bible, then maybe she is not an N.
   MY NPD mother is a therapist. She reads  tons of self help books. She has been in therapy for 30 years. How they "process" the information is different than how we do. My mother "intellectualizes" everything. Then ,she uses the fact that she is in therapy and "changing" to beat you over the head with.She uses it to say that she 'has changed" and you are imaging that she is the one with the problem. She uses therapy for an excuse that she has "changed'. She has not changed at all. She just has 'new" words, therapy words. to hit you with.
MS,   I think that you are doubting your reality. That is a problem for me,too. Stormy really helped me on a recent post. She said,"If you think someone is being cruel, they probably are. Trust yourself."
 I needed that .It hit me ,at that moment, how much good information we can get from ourselves,if we listen. N's took away our confidence. It is part of how they operate. How can they use you if you have an inner core? Your core must be violated and contaminated with self doubt.
   My guess is that she is an N. You are just doubting.Another thing about your M not victimizing you ,but now your father. N's can change 'victims and they do. My N(ish) H changed victims from me to my son. My mother has changed victims and now it is my  father
      If you were beaten , then "whatever" the name of  her condition , it was BAD. Honor your feelings, trust yourself.
  I started having panic attacks very early in childhood. It was from having too many emotional assaults(IMO). You cannot handle and process what is happening to you.
 Honor your Pain. Don't save your parents at your own expense. Your M(if she is an N) wants to weaken you and use you.It is horrible to face,but it is true(IMO) Own your own value and worth. You sound like a lovely person who deserves to love herself
   I will write more later. Keep sharing. We are all going through similar issues,. You are not alone     
                                                                  Love  Ami

[Ami]

she is an N, you may see a lot of "self-examination" but not much change in her behavior. 




Dear CB,
   This is EXACTLY my mother. You said in a few wotds what I was trying to say in many .  Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

Hi MS,

What a smart plan, what an elegant way to support yourself while you test the realities there. This is what popped for me and I'll just pop in responses:

And mom kept saying he’s unresponsive, he doesn’t know us, [projection: does she really know you? him?]

and I started feeling the anger again.  He’s very very tired, but each time I say Dad he opens his eyes.  He’s responding.  And I’m thinking why is she trying to make the situation worse than it is. 
[I think it's to generate more drama...because that is where she is comfortable. Jinned-up emotions and electricity are more familiar turf for her, a quiet supportive vigil --like the one you've kept with Mamaw--would be very difficult, actually impossible, for your mother]

I acknowledge it’s bad, but it seems to me she’s trying to make it worse.   Then she keeps asking me if he looks yellow.  She’s asked me this all week. 
[maybe if she says it often enough, then her compulsion for disaster will come true]

My mother reacts irrationally to illness and death and many other things. Manipulation doesn't do any good in the face of biology or nature's indifference. For some, spiritual strength fills that gap. For Ns, imo, the gap is terrifyingly wide and they fling illogical comments into it like coals into a well.

Keep noticing, noting.

Thank you, MS, for sharing this very meaningful process with us.

love
Hops

[mountainspring]

Hi Ami and CB and Hops...

It’s not that I don’t think there is something major wrong with my mother.  I do.  Too much happened when I was a child to not think that.  I was just wondering because of her self reflection if her problems are something else besides being an N.  With an N there is no hope for change.  But another thing I’m thinking is that she hasn’t changed.  Her attitude toward me most of the time this trip has changed, but maybe it’s because Dad is now her target.  Maybe an abuser that’s not an N could change, but I don’t know if there is such a thing as an abuser that’s not an N.  Hops… I think she is addicted to drama.  I get mad at myself because I feel so confused when I’m around them.  I want to be prepared before my next visit.

My List

I know she misrepresents my Dad’s condition and many other things.
I know she plays mind control games.
I think she may be self reflecting some.
I know she tries to control his every move, and I know she has done this to me all my life.  I’m not sure why the attitude change toward me is now is different. 
I know it bothers her that my brother and sister don’t have much contact.
I know she talks about me behind my back, because my Uncle said I looked healthier than he’s ever seen before, and I don’t talk to my Uncle that much and rarely see him.  He would have no clue about me unless someone was talking. Plus, my issues aren’t health issues, they are emotional issues so I don’t know what that was about.
She likes drama and Dad hates drama.  She seems to want to make things worse, but maybe that’s fear, I don’t know.


They did a lot of tests on Dad that night and said he had a very high ammonia level and this had caused his confusion at Peebles.  They put him on lactulose.  Mom and I spent the night in the hospital and the next day he was much better.  He knew us and wasn’t confused.  He started wanting to document everything that happened.  He asked me to go to the house and get his laptop and several other notes he had.  My father is a very detailed person.  He was in school until I was 9, getting his Thd in theology.  He’s a very smart man and he’s very intent on documenting his condition.  He has another medical notebook he keeps on Mammaw also.  Anyway, he wanted to get started.  So I told him I would go get what he needed and bring it back to him and then I would go and spend several hours with  Mammaw.  I went to the house, got his laptop and printed some of the notes he’d asked for from his laptop, and came back to the hospital.   When I got back, he had his medical notebook and lots of papers out and was writing things down.  He thanked me and I asked him if he was okay and he said he was. So I said I was going to check on Mammaw and Mom said she wished I wouldn’t.  She said that by spending so much time with Mammaw I was spoiling her, and that was why Mammaw got so upset each time I left.  Then Dad told my mother she couldn’t control how Mammaw felt.  And my mother said yes she could.  You can control what others think and feel by the way you treat them.  You can teach them to feel certain ways.  And I felt anger and rage again.  I couldn’t believe she had said that.  That was exactly how I felt growing up.  Like she was trying to control what I thought and what I felt.  Then she started in on Dad.  You have no business writing out your notes here.  You are supposed to be resting and on and on.  And Dad ignores her and keeps working on his notes.  I left.

I stayed with Mammaw for a few hours, then came back to the hospital to check on Dad.  I could tell that what had started before I left had continued.  They were sniping at each other and when I came in my mom decided she would go home for a while.  Mom tells him not to do anything stupid while she is gone.  She grabbed her purse and the laptop and wants me to go with her because she’s parked on the other side of the hospital.  She wants me to drive her to her car.  And on the way out, she says, maybe she  shouldn’t have said that, he is sick and she  shouldn’t attack his self esteem too much.  And now I feel stupid.  I feel so much rage I can’t respond.  The words won’t come.  She notices and says this is too much for me, I can’t handle it.  Maybe I should take a break from Dad and Mammaw.  And I feel more rage.  It’s not Dad and Mammaw I can’t cope with.  It’s her.  And I wonder if she knows this and is toying with me.  I go back to Dad’s room.  Dad says to me she tries to control my every move.  She’s on me to quit my job at Peebles.  I like my job.  I told her I wanted to call my manager and she had a fit.  If I say black, she says white.  I couldn’t get any of my notes done while she was here, and she wouldn’t give me my laptop.  Your mother can’t handle what’s happening.  And she doesn’t want to help me at all.  She doesn’t like for me to ask her to do anything.  Can you hand me my toothpaste and my toothbrush.  Would you get my manager on the phone so I can find out exactly what happened to me.  Can you fill my water up and put some ice in it etc etc.   So I did these things.  He calls his work and takes notes to what they are saying happened to him.  He asked if he collapsed.  He is told he didn’t.  They said he had a long line at his register, that a coworker noticed and went to help him.  When she got there, he couldn’t log on.  This coworker was a nursing student and could tell something was very wrong.  She told him to sit down and she took care of his customers.  After that he told her he needed a break for a while.  She said she would call his wife and he begged her not too.  Then she went to get the manager.  Then he started  getting worse. They started asking him for Mom’s cell number because they only had the home number.  He told them 7777777.  They asked him where he was, he didn’t know.  They asked him who they were, he didn’t know.  They asked him what year it was he said 1974.  He asked them again if they were sure he didn’t collapse.  They said he didn’t.  And the whole time he’s on the phone, he’s writing his notes.  My stomach is in a knot.  I’m understanding now the reason he is so intent on getting the notes.  He’s clearing up, he’s afraid he’ll get confused again.  He writes these things to give them to his main liver doctor at the other hospital.  He’s afraid Mom will misrepresent him.  These are all guesses. He hasn’t said these things to me they are what I’m feeling.  Then I’m thinking maybe she’s afraid, maybe all this scares the shit out of her.  Maybe she’s not doing these things intentionally.  And I think maybe I’m nuts.  Maybe because I feel these things so intensely it’s projection, that I’m not seeing what I think I’m seeing.  Maybe I can relate to much, that I’m too emotional.  I feel the fog in my brain.  I feel confused. After I get everything done he wants done I ask him if he wants me to turn on the TV.  I ask him if he’s tired.  He says he’s fine, but he really needs to get some things done.  He wants me to home so he can work on his notes.  I ask him if he remembers my saying Dad and him opening his eyes in  the emergency room.  He says he doesn’t remember it.  She was right, I was wrong.  He didn’t know us in the emergency room.  I start doubting myself again.  I go back to the house.

When I get there I get the other side of course.  Mom says she doesn’t understand Dad.  He won’t rest.  He knows how sick he is but he won’t rest.  She’s mad because he won’t quit his job.  She’s be on him to quit and he won’t. He needs to rest but he’s so intent on getting his notes.   He’s nuts to think he can still work and on and on she goes.  She says he constantly tells her he’s okay, he’s not that sick, to leave him alone.  And I say to Mom that everyone is not like her.  That people deal with sickness different ways.  That Dad has always been very detailed.  That maybe he uses his job as a distraction and if he wants to spend his time making notes so what.  Let him deal with it in his own way.  She tells me I don’t understand, that I’ve always been a Daddys girl and that I don’t know what’s best for him.  I tell her that she doesn’t know what’s best for him either.  That only Dad knows what’s best for him.  And then I go to bed and get mad at her all over again.  She says he can’t do his job, but she doesn’t see any reason he can’t paint the fence, or mow the lawn, or put the shelves up in the garage, or cut the bushes.  She thinks he’s perfectly capable of doing the things she wants done, but if it’s something he wants he’s too sick.  I think I should go back to assisted living to sleep but I can’t.  I’m feeling a very strong urge to stay.  I know I’m wanting to control the situation.  Control the damage. My T has warned me over and over to walk away when I’m feeling this way but I can’t, and I’m angry that I can’t. 

It’s getting long again.  What do you see?  She’s crazy?  I’m crazy?  We’re all crazy?  I think it’s her, but maybe it’s not.  Maybe Dad is misrepresenting his condition by downplaying his illness.  Maybe I’m so willing to jump to his side I don’t see it.  Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.  Is her behavior N or something else?



 

[Ami]

WOW MS,
   Your post is an 'advertisement " for NC.(half kidding)
    A few highlights stick out for me.One is that the N can easily find a different scapegoat. The fact that she is not scapegoating you and instead is scapegoating your F has no bearing on whether or not she is an N. Who the N scapegoats  is immaterial to the N " diagnosis"
   For example, MY M is really scapegoating my F ,very badly, b/c he is the only one there.My Aunt even mentioned to me that it was disgusting..
   Also, N's are really "strange" when it comes to being nurturing during sickness. I think that a lot of the craziness that you see is just their"strangeness." which comes out more during this type of  situation. Your question about who is the crazy one?IMO, you have lost your 'footing"-- your trust in yourself. Instead of having an internal core which is "you" and that you trust---- you are questioning your essential reality. You are seeing a situation right in front of your face.  . Where you are "screwing up"(IMO) is that you are not trusting your gut. You have  emotions and reactions to the circumstances,but you are not believing yourself.
   Your Mother  is doing what N's do---- fog your reality. N's are genius's at getting you to doubt yourself..They truly have a supernatural way to get you to doubt what is totally OBVIOUS.
 I have just faced this fact. It is horrible to face this about your own mother---- truly horrible.
Also, they don't care what it does to you. If you are dazed and hurt, that doesn't matter to them. What matters is that they are "right."Your  essential well being is way down on the list.
This saying explains it all. A woman sees  her Husband in bed with another woman. He says,"Who are you going to believe ----- me or your lying eyes?
This could be my theme song. I got screwed up b/c I believed my parents instead of my own eyes.To me, I accepted that my eyes WERE lying eyes.
 Is your F the 'good one--- the kind ,sweet and selfless one?. My F is all of this,but he will never stand up.I used to think that my F was great and my M was the witch, Now, I see that it is a 'team" effort. They are a pair. You cannot alter her "meanness" to him. She sounds jealous of your relationship with him ( as mine is ). You cannot make years worth of her abuse to him go away. He is a part of the team, even though we don't want to see this.(IMO).
   So, I think that you have good perceptions and the main thing you are doing "wrong" is not trusting them. Also, you are trying to "rescue" him. It won't work( based on my experience.)
                                                                               Love  Ami

"

 

[Hopalong]

MS,
How about saying at very strong vehement intense I-mean-it volume with no trace of guilt:

If you can't be loving and kind to him, leave him alone.

Just take a deep breath when you're with her, and do it.

The world won't end.

?

Hops

[Stormchild]

Hi MS

I'm sorry it took me so long to chime in again. I tried to log in at work over my lunch hour and the login procedure failed several times, and then I had to start work again.

Good grief, what a mess. Your poor father, your poor Mammaw.

First: your mother is showing signs of 'milking' your father's situation. Exaggerating the problem to the desk clerk, recruiting you to join her in misrepresenting him as having jaundice, etc. This looks like Munchausen's type behavior.

She loves drama... yes, she'll try to get as much drama out of this as she can. It also allows her to control you and your cousin and whoever else is within reach. If she cooks up a crisis, you have to drop everything and run home. She's aware of this unfortunately... and so is your father, who is trying to prevent it as much as he can.

Your father is trying very hard to maintain some autonomy. He's keeping meticulous records and trying to continue to function at least part time at a job. I think he realizes on some level that he needs to be sure there is a very precise and detailed record of the truth, with respect to his medical condition. I think he is beginning to see just how bad your mother is, in terms of exaggerating [and never exaggerating where a lie will do], and he wants to be sure that he leaves a record for people to refer to if he becomes unable to do so [confused, disoriented, etc.]

What he has not thought of is that your mother will prevent people from gaining access to that record if she has control over it when he becomes incapacitated. Make sure that he sends a copy to someone else, by email, regularly enough for it to be reasonably current within a week or two.

I think he does not want to become helpless and dependent on your mother, because now he sees how she behaves towards people who are unable to protect themselves.

Her behavior towards him reminds me of my own mother's behavior towards my father when my father became ill.

I hate to say it but I am GLAD that you are feeling anger and rage, it is much better to feel those things than to feel helplessness and fear. I'd prefer for your mother to be a decent woman, so that you could feel love and concern, but that is not an option.

Trust your gut. Your mother is abusive. She abused you, and she has abused your father directly and indirectly in all of this. Your father is seeing what she is, and it must be breaking his heart and shaking him up terribly, to have to live with such a person now.

You are not projecting. That is an N defense tactic they teach us, that business of doubting our own judgement. An N will accuse you of projecting whenever you come close to the truth of what they are, or what they are doing, or why they are doing it. That is, if they know about projecting. If they don't know about projecting, they go off onto the 'what about what YOU did that time...' which is the same trick really, trying to say that you are just as bad as they are, you are the one who is bad. Nope. Not true. You can admit when you do wrong things or make mistakes, and you can modify your behavior. Keep that in mind. It is the cardinal difference. You can do both of those things, and Ns cannot.

[Stormchild]

By the way, MS, you may want to talk to your cousin, or someone else you can trust, about what is involved in having yourself appointed as the court-ordered guardian for your father, if your mother continues behaving destructively.

Don't be fooled by your dad's seemingly compulsive behavior regarding the notetaking. Besides the reasons for it I gave above, this is 'normal' hypervigilant behavior. People who are abused learn to watch the details, the omissions. What isn't said, what isn't done. He's investing energy into this to protect himself, he's desperately preparing protection, and I don't think he is consciously aware of how desperate he is.

((((((((((MS))))))))))

[mountainspring]

Okay.  There was much more that happened but it’s really more of the same type of stuff.  I don’t feel a need to type anymore because your responses have made me clearer.  Dad went  back into the hospital Sunday.  He woke up confused again but it was different than the first time.  He knew where he was and who we were, but he was very weak and tired and he refused to take his sugar level.  My mother told the medic he was ‘rebellious’.  Oh give me a break, he’s not 2.  Then he dropped some ice tea.  They ran more tests and didn’t find anything more.  His ammonia level was about the same as it was after they treated and discharged him the first time and his sugar level was okay.  They ran several more tests and discharged him Monday evening.  This was good because he had an appt with his liver doc on Tuesday morning.

Now I can make the list and come up with some resolutions. (This is the hard part)

Problem:   Mom misrepresents Dad’s condition. 
Solution:  Don’t listen to Mom, get direct access to Dad’s doctors  Have Dad fill out a hipa form, and ask Dad to email me updates on his condition every time he makes a change on his medical history.  He sends me med histories occasionally, but not so much since he’s moved.  Know that she misrepresents his condition and prepare mentally for that.  It’s going to happen no matter how mad it makes me.  And take every opportunity to inform doctors and hospital personnel when I catch her at it

Problem:  I don’t trust my own reality. 
Solution: Act on what I believe is true.  Speak my own truth.  And think about my own reality more than thinking about hers.  Practice, practice, practice.

Problem: Mom tries to control Dad.  I try to control Mom.
Solution:  CB’s solution.  Most of the time Dad is speaking up.  But sometimes he doesn’t.  He didn’t speak up when she walked out with the laptop.  But Dad is aware that mom is trying to control him.  When he doesn’t speak up he must have his reasons.  I could ask him next time I visit.  But had I spoken up with the laptop issue maybe I would have been disrespecting his choice, maybe it would have made the situation worse.  You know what CB, this feels kinda the same as the letting go issue.  She speaks her reality so I can speak mine.  But if my goal in speaking mine is to control what she’s saying and doing I’ve lost already.  I should speak my reality because I can, but know while speaking it that I can’t control my mother.  And it makes me sick that I was trying to control her.  She tried to control me for years and I should have spotted it in myself.  Things felt so out of control.  Yuck.

Ami.. I don’t see them as a team.  Maybe when I was growing up.  Dad was gone a lot.  Meetings, luncheons, church work.  He wouldn’t voice what was happening and I don’t know how aware he was.  He would slip me candy and money.  But he argues with Mom now.  He’s speaking up.  And you were right.  The whole trip I was trying to rescue him.  That’s Karpman. 

Now I’m disgusted with myself.  Realizing these things as I’m typing.  I’ve studied Karpman.  I read Storm’s posts on Karpman, and it didn’t occur to me until just now. 

Stormy…   I forgot about the grain of salt.  How could I forget that?  And the hypervigilence… I hadn’t thought about that but that’s what he was doing….. it makes me very sad.  I wish he would name me guardian, but I’m sure he wouldn’t.  If he did my mom would leave him.  That sounds silly but she would.  Things were so much easier when mom had a job.  She didn’t have the time to harass him like she does now.  I think I will talk to my cousin.

Dad put in his resignation.  He said he did it because he wasn’t feeling well, but he fought for it until just a day or two before he quit.  Mom went on and on about how it was his decision and she had nothing to do with it.  (I guess the hounding she did the WHOLE time I was there didn’t count.)  And he went to his liver doctor and the doc said he can’t drive anymore.

Hops… are you sure the world won’t end???  It felt like it would…  I’ll practice.   

The hospital he was at while he lived here does living donor transplants.  There’s a good chance I would be a match.  We talked about it some while I was there.  If he gets any worse I guess I’ll need to get tested.  Our blood types match, but there’s a lot of other tests that need to be done to determine compatibility.  He has a better chance of recovering with the living donor program because the transplant could be done much sooner.  His Meld has to be over 20 for the regular transplant.  The liver is a neat organ.  They can take half from the donor and give it to the recipient and it will grow to normal size again in both people.  Kinda neat.

Thanks to everyone for helping me through this.  I feel a little thick headed.  Control, Karpman, rescuing, bleck…

(((((((Hugs to Everyone))))))  Thank you..

[CB123]

MS,

Don't feel disgusted with yourself.  You're learning.  There's no penalty for not having all the answers. 

We learn how to do life from the people around us who are supposed to be teaching us.  You learned to wrestle for control from an early age.  I don't think there's a single one of us who doesnt slip into the Karpman triangle at the first opportunity.  It takes a lot of work to see it, let alone avoid it.

I think you are doing very well.  This is hard.  You have a lot on your plate and you are juggling it as best you can. 

How's Mammaw, MS?  Is she your dad's mother? 

Love

CB

 

[Ami]

Dear MS.
   It "hurt" me that you "put yourself down" for not knowing. We are so ready to jump on our own backs. How nice it would be if we could be kind to ourselves. This is my goal, anyway.
 I have to read about the Karpman triangle.
    I am glad that your Dad has not given up himself or you---  for her. I am glad that he cares about your voice. I had to face the betrayal of my Dad as well as my Mom.
   When I was being abused by my H, my Dad and Mother sided with my H. Later,my mother 'blamed "me for the abuse. She said that I was so "weak" and that is why it happened. Well, a person does get weak when they have young children. An N will rationalize anything
   Anyway, my point is that  I am glad that your Dad did not abandon you, too.
  I think that you are doing SO WELL. You are dealing with so many stressful things in such a great way.I see you as a winner. It hurts me to think that you see yourself as a "loser. You were placed in a "crazy" situation and you handled it with dignity and grace. I would only wish that I could handle something as big as that------so well                      Love   Ami

[mountainspring]

Hi CB,

I called and checked on her yesterday.  She’s doing okay.  She was going down the hall at rehab in her wheelchair but using her feet to move the wheelchair.  This is more progress.  She’s my Dad’s mother.  She needs to be able to use her walker to walk from her room to the dining room before she’s discharged from rehab and able to go back to assisted living.  I’m really hoping for that for her because she loves assisted living and hates rehab.  Rehab feels much more like a nursing home environment.

Hi Ami

I was disgusted because I had read about Karpman more than once before the trip.  I’ve been reading the board on and off for about a year.  But I’ve been thinking about it again this morning.  When my parents lived here, I limited my time and visits with them.  I saw my Dad mostly because he would come to the house to see my kids.  A lot of the time when I would visit their house I would choose times that Mom wasn’t there.  Then when Mammaw moved in with me, Dad would occasionally visit and most of the time he was without mom.  My T has told me many times that my mother is toxic for me and to stay away from her.  I guess reading about something is really different than experiencing it.  And the whole karpman, rescuing, thing didn’t come to mind until the thread.  The control issue did, but not attempting to control her felt like I was abandoning my Dad.  This morning as I’m thinking about it some more, I’m realizing how important it is for me to listen to my body.  When I feel the anger and the rage it’s important for me not to react because reacting for me is rescuing him and controlling my mother.  I need to trust my gut as all of you are telling me to do.  I think maybe it’s good that I stayed with them.  It pointed out to me that I need more practice,  that reading is not enough.  I plan to go back soon.  In a month to six weeks depending on what I hear about Mammaws and Dad’s progress.  I think my next trip I won’t stay at their house for as long, but a couple days may be good practice for me.  I want to be confident that I’m being healthy and this past trip has had alarm bells all over the place for me.  I’m not there yet.

I really love you all.  Without the thread I don’t think I would have seen what was going on.  I felt like I was navigating through mud.  But the trust your gut, the are you rescuing,  Dad’s hypervigilence and what that meant, and the reminder to respect his choices when he’s silent helped make things clearer.  I have a better idea of how to handle things next time.

[Lupita]

Hope that I am not stilling the thread, but it is so similar to me, that I wanted to share with MS and everybody here. My son has constant sinus problems. My mother contsntly tells me that my son will have cancer of the sinus when he is old. She did that for many years. This trip she was here, when she started, I told her, my sister daughter has a lot of sinus problems constantly. I am sure she is going to have cancer of the sinus when she grows up.
She immediately stopped. She never told me again about my son's "future cancer"
I do not think my son is going to have cancer. That is stupid. Possible, but stupid. You cannot occupy your self thinking if your son is going to have cancer in 50 years from now. That is stupid.

[sally]

Dear MS,

You're going thru so much. 

I know what it's like to have physcically ill grandparents, parents, dealing with their hospitalization, assited living, N parent(s):  all this stuff gets mushed together and can consume you.

All I can say is to please take care of yourself.  Please put your own self first.  Take care of your own physical body and your emotional well being.

Love,
Sally