Author Topic: A Must Read if You have N Parents  (Read 2136 times)

sally

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A Must Read if You have N Parents
« on: June 28, 2007, 01:51:32 AM »
I found this interview given by Sam Vaknin.

Like many of us here, I too have mixed feelings about him.  When I began my journey thru the N maze, Vaknin was my 1st stop and I am grateful to him for being there.  Then, as I traveled on, I found other sources for N info. 

Anyway, I think he's really on target in this interview.

Love to you all,
Sally

http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/memberspages.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=398945&LastModified=4675628626239850387

Adult Children of Narcissists
By Sam Vaknin
Author of "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited"
 
Interview granted to Elizabeth Svoboda of Psychology Today

Q. Once you became an adult, how did your relationship with your parents change? What are some of the unique difficulties of being an adult child of narcissistic parents? Feel free to give examples or describe specific situations you found yourself in.

A. Adult children of narcissists adopt one of two solutions: entanglement or detachment. Children of narcissists should avoid the encounter because it is bound to stir up a nest of emotional hornets which they may not be able to cope with effectively. They should refuse to subject themselves to repeated abuse, however subtle, surreptitious, and ambient. Absenteeism is a way of neutralizing the abusive parents' weapons.

But the vast majority of grown up offspring of narcissists find themselves enmeshed in unhealthy permutations of their childhood, caught in an exhausting dance macabre, developing special semiotic vocabularies to decipher the convoluted exchanges that pass for communication in their families. They compulsively revisit unresolved conflicts and re-enact painful scenes in the forlorn hope that, this time around, the resolution would be favorable and benign.

Such entanglement only serves to exacerbate the corrosive give-and-take that constitutes the child-parent relationship in the narcissist's family. Such recurrent friction, unwelcome but irresistible, deepens and entrenches the grudges and enmity that both parties accumulate in sort of a bookkeeping of hurt and counter-hurt.


Q. When we become adults, what are our responsibilities to parents who have personality problems? Do you think we're obligated to put up with them as a kind of payback for everything they gave us when we were young, or are we justified in cutting them off if the situation gets too intractable?

A. Our first and foremost obligation is to ourselves and to our welfare - as well as to our loved ones. People with personality disorders are disruptive in the extreme. They pose a clear and present danger both to themselves and to others. They are an emotional liability and a time bomb. They are a riddle we, their progeny, can never hope to resolve and they constitute living proof that not only were we not loved as children but are unloveable as adults.

Why would one saddle oneself with such debilitating constraints on one's ability to feel, to experience, to dare, and to soar to one's fullest potential? Narcissistic parents are an albatross around their children's necks because they are incapable of truly, fully, and unconditionally loving.

Q. How can we try to manage difficult parents' behavior, if at all—or at least, minimize its impact on us? Q. What advice would you give others who find themselves in a similar situation with their parents? What were some of the strategies that worked for you?

A. At the risk of sounding repetitive: disengage to the best of your ability. Make it a point to limit your encounters with these sad reminders of your childhood to the bare minimum. Delegate obligations to third parties, to professionals, to other members of the family. Hire nurses, accountants, and lawyers if you can afford it. Place them in a senior home. Move to another state. The more distance you put between yourself and your personality disordered abuser-parents and their radioactive influence, the better you are bound to feel: liberated, decisive, empowered, calmer, in control, clear about yourself and your goals.

These points are crucial:

Do not allow your parents to manage your life any longer

Do not allow them to interfere with your new family: your wife and children

Do not allow them to turn you into a servant, instantaneously and obsequiously at their beck ad call

Do not become their source of funding

Do not become their exclusive or most important source of narcissistic supply (attention, adulation, admiration)

Do not show them that they can hurt you or that you are afraid of them or that they have any kind of power over you

Be ostentatiously autonomous and independent-minded in their presence

Do not succumb to emotional blackmail or emotional incest

Punish them by disengaging every time they transgress. Condition them not to misbehave, not to abuse you.

Identify the most common strategies of fostering unhealthy (trauma) bonding and the most prevalent control mechanisms:

Guilt-driven ("I sacrificed my life for you…")

Codependent ("I need you, I cannot cope without you…")

Goal-driven ("We have a common goal which we can and must achieve")

Shared psychosis or emotional incest ("You and I are united against the whole world, or at least against your monstrous, no-good father ...", "You are my one and only true love and passion")

Explicit ("If you do not adhere to my principles, beliefs, ideology, religion, values, if you do not obey my instructions – I will punish you").


sally

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2007, 02:03:01 AM »
I thought this interview was on target for me because it explains why I was so enmeshed with my parents.

Here's the lines that really speak to me:

"But the vast majority of grown up offspring of narcissists find themselves enmeshed in unhealthy permutations of their childhood, caught in an exhausting dance macabre, developing special semiotic vocabularies to decipher the convoluted exchanges that pass for communication in their families. They compulsively revisit unresolved conflicts and re-enact painful scenes in the forlorn hope that, this time around, the resolution would be favorable and benign."

"Such entanglement only serves to exacerbate the corrosive give-and-take that constitutes the child-parent relationship in the narcissist's family. Such recurrent friction, unwelcome but irresistible, deepens and entrenches the grudges and enmity that both parties accumulate in sort of a bookkeeping of hurt and counter-hurt."

"They are a riddle we, their progeny, can never hope to resolve"

I did keep re-visiting unresolved conflicts and my parents are riddles that I will never solve.

Best to move on and focus on MY life and stop trying to figure out why they were how they were.  But, since I don't want to make the same mistakes I've been making, I also need to understand Nism, so I can avoid Ns in the future.

Love,
Sally




Ami

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 08:35:17 AM »
Wonderful, affirming information  -------      Thanks    Sally
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

enough

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2007, 10:20:53 AM »
This is extremely helpful for me right now. THANK YOU!!

finding peace

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 02:50:16 PM »
Hi Sally,

That was really good to read again!  I am going to print it to PDF and keep it as a reminder.  Thanks!!

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Ami

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 07:01:38 PM »
This article is SO GOOD. Thanks Sally------ Miss you                            Love     Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Stormchild

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2007, 09:50:54 PM »
Sally, this is great. Thanks! I have not read much Vaknin... most of what I've read of his writing is from links and posts people bring here. His list of strategies for dealing with N parents is a good list for dealing with any type of abuser, I think.

Quote
Do not allow your parents to manage your life any longer
Do not allow them to interfere with your new family: your wife and children
Do not allow them to turn you into a servant, instantaneously and obsequiously at their beck ad call
Do not become their source of funding
Do not become their exclusive or most important source of narcissistic supply (attention, adulation, admiration)
Do not show them that they can hurt you or that you are afraid of them or that they have any kind of power over you

Be ostentatiously autonomous and independent-minded in their presence
Do not succumb to emotional blackmail or emotional incest
Punish them by disengaging every time they transgress. Condition them not to misbehave, not to abuse you.

Identify the most common strategies of fostering unhealthy (trauma) bonding and the most prevalent control mechanisms:
Guilt-driven ("I sacrificed my life for you…")
Codependent ("I need you, I cannot cope without you…")
Goal-driven ("We have a common goal which we can and must achieve")
Shared psychosis or emotional incest ("You and I are united against the whole world, or at least against your monstrous, no-good father ...", "You are my one and only true love and passion")
Explicit ("If you do not adhere to my principles, beliefs, ideology, religion, values, if you do not obey my instructions – I will punish you").

Thank you. This is excellent.
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Bella_French

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2007, 11:24:34 PM »
I agree with this advice, as it has worked very well for me.

The problem I sometimes face now is that having put all these boundaries in place, which effectively make our relationship kind of peaceful, my mother often romanticises our relationship. I don't think she realises that we `get along' because of our physical and emotional distance.

When things start to turn sour with her other sources of NS, as they do periodically,  she turns to me thinking that I would be a perfect new source of NS. I'm still worried that she'll move to my town but I guess I'll face that hurdle if it comes about.

The other thing I have to watch is my own tendency to minimise the abuse. Its easy to do when our communication is so positive and she seems so eager to help me (ie bait me into becoming her new NS).

Thankyou for posting this interview; it was a timely reminder for me as well.

X Bella


Ami

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2007, 11:34:08 PM »
Dear Bella,
   I think that another Reason that we minimize the abuse is that we ,so, want a good mother- daughter relationship. Love you,    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Bella_French

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Re: A Must Read if You have N Parents
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2007, 01:45:26 AM »
Love you too, Ami!

Yes, that is how I feel; you explained my feelings exactly.

X Bella